Uber and double-pricing

[CaptHaddock]

The reason that I have been unsympathetic to the endless whining from expats compelled to pay more than Thais is that the whiners are naive about how extensive double-pricing is.  Basically, any business would like to charge every customer the most that that customer is willing to pay without reference to what they charge anyone else.  Universities, airlines, and hospitals have been blatantly doing so for years.  So, now Uber is doing it, too.  Here's an excerpt from an article on ritholtz.com:

 

The company [Uber] detailed for the first time in an interview with Bloomberg a new pricing system that’s been in testing for months in certain cities. On Friday, Uber acknowledged to drivers the discrepancy between their compensation and what riders pay. The new fare system is called “route-based pricing,” and it charges customers based on what it predicts they’re willing to pay. It’s a break from the past, when Uber calculated fares using a combination of mileage, time and multipliers based on geographic demand.

 

http://ritholtz.com/2017/05/decrypted-ubers-first-unicorn/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBigPicture+(The+Big+Picture)

 

Uber, unlike taxi companies, has collected a wealth of data that it can use to price your next ride.  It knows how much you paid the last time you took that route.  It also knows if you refused an Uber after checking the estimated cost.  This is in addition to all the rest of the information Uber may have bothered to collect about you, the area you live in, your credit history, and whatever else it can find anywhere.

 

So, it's a double-pricing world.  Get used to it.  The price of all the convenience that we know have is the information others have collected on us.  The asymmetric capacity to utilize this tsunami of data means that it will be used to our disadvantage more and more.

[Scott]

Closed.

 

Not Thai related.  

[Scott]

Per request, the thread will be re-opened but please make any comments that relate to Uber in Thailand.  

[impulse]

1 hour ago, CaptHaddock said:

On Friday, Uber acknowledged to drivers the discrepancy between their compensation and what riders pay. The new fare system is called “route-based pricing,” and it charges customers based on what it predicts they’re willing to pay. It’s a break from the past, when Uber calculated fares using a combination of mileage, time and multipliers based on geographic demand.

 

Thai taxis have been doing that for years.  Who'd have thunk they'd be ahead of the curve...  I'd bet the algorithm going on in their head is light years ahead of Uber's.

 

One more reason I'm suspicious that Uber's the panacea that will solve the Thailand taxi issues in the long term.  You just can't trust them not to hose you eventually.  But enjoy it while it's new and still works like a new car.

[alant]

double pricing exists yes CaptHadock as does the endless whining.

Get used to it.

[Sooo Upto Me]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

Closed.

 

Not Thai related.  

Why?  Uber is in Thailand. 

U need to read this forum more often.

[williamgeorgeallen]

people should learn to deal with double pricing in thailand or leave. it is not going to change. now as for uber i drive for uber in new zealand and i cant believe how little uber charges the riders. uber is smart, they bring a fantastic service to riders at a great price. uber will only charge more to a rider if it improves the service.

[Jingthing]

Uber is kind of evil (but a needed service) but isn't the flexible pricing based on route desirability rather than something about the user like race or nationality? That is double pricing and it happens all the the time in Thailand. Many of us see that kind of double pricing as a form of racism.

 

I don't see an equivalence here. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Jingthing

[bangkokairportlink]

Do they apply this in Thailand ?

[Jingthing]

Do they apply this in Thailand ?

Doubtful. Read the OP.

[CaptHaddock]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Uber is kind of evil (but a needed service) but it's the variant pricing based on route rather than something about the user like race or nationality? In that Thai context, that is double pricing. I don't see an equivalence here. 

You missed the point.  Uber is going to charge two customers traveling the same route at the same time different fares.  They are going to determine the fare not on the route or distance, but other information such as traveling habits or annual income or something that may indicate that one customer will be willing to pay more than the other.  So, it's not exactly the same as Thai double-pricing based on race or nationality, but the Thai who wants to charge you more is using your nationality and presumed wealth to raise the price, since that is the information that is available to him.

 

Economists have discussed the concept for a long time to the point of giving it the name "price discrimination."

[Jingthing]

Yes evil but at least not racist.

[impulse]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Uber is kind of evil (but a needed service) but isn't the flexible pricing based on route desirability rather than something about the user like race or nationality? That is double pricing and it happens all the the time in Thailand. Many of us see that kind of double pricing as a form of racism.

 

I don't see an equivalence here. 

 

Yesterday (metaphorically), Uber calculated the fare based on distance.  Then it was distance and time.  Then it was distance and time and demand.

 

Now, it's experimenting with "how much a passenger would be willing to pay", which seems to mean more for traveling around affluent areas, and less for traveling between blighted areas.  (Apparently, trying different models to see if they can lose less in 2017 than the $2.6 Billion they lost in 2016).  That's Billion with a B.  And doesn't include the shellacking they took before abandoning China.

 

What's the metaphorical tomorrow hold?  I suspect it will be delving into our spending habits (maybe even how drunk we are) and we'll each have our own Uber profile and we'll find out that 3 people hop into Uber cabs from a stadium to the airport after the same game, and all 3 will pay vastly different prices.  And someone calling for an Uber at 3:00 AM outside a swanky bar will get bent over the table.  Because they can.

 

Which doesn't even address how unfair that is to normal, registered taxi drivers who have to pay big  $$$ for hack shields and adhere to a firm price based on the meter- or have their $250,000 shield pulled..

 

Lots more info and additional links on the original Bloomberg article referenced in the OP linked article.  I'd call it scary, but it's really just appalling.  Looks like they've fessed up to trying out this pricing model in 14 cities.  God only knows what they're trying in different areas that's too evil to admit to.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-19/uber-s-future-may-rely-on-predicting-how-much-you-re-willing-to-pay

Edited May 23, 2017 by impulse

[hocuspocus]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Yesterday (metaphorically), Uber calculated the fare based on distance.  Then it was distance and time.  Then it was distance and time and demand.

 

Now, it's experimenting with "how much a passenger would be willing to pay", which seems to mean more for traveling around affluent areas, and less for traveling between blighted areas.  (Apparently, trying different models to see if they can lose less in 2017 than the $2.6 Billion they lost in 2016).  That's Billion with a B.  And doesn't include the shellacking they took before abandoning China.

 

What's the metaphorical tomorrow hold?  I suspect it will be delving into our spending habits (maybe even how drunk we are) and we'll each have our own Uber profile and we'll find out that 3 people hop into Uber cabs from a stadium to the airport after the same game, and all 3 will pay vastly different prices.  And someone calling for an Uber at 3:00 AM outside a swanky bar will get bent over the table.  Because they can.

 

Which doesn't even address how unfair that is to normal, registered taxi drivers who have to pay big  $$$ for hack shields and adhere to a firm price based on the meter- or have their $250,000 shield pulled..

 

Lots more info and additional links on the original Bloomberg article referenced in the OP linked article.  I'd call it scary, but it's really just appalling.  Looks like they've fessed up to trying out this pricing model in 14 cities.  God only knows what they're trying in different areas that's too evil to admit to.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-19/uber-s-future-may-rely-on-predicting-how-much-you-re-willing-to-pay

Wow if they charge me more on my level of drunkeness I will not be able to afford Uber anymore. But up to now Uber charges have been less than half of what normal taxis cost in Thailand. A Great Service.

[impulse]

Just now, hocuspocus said:

Wow if they charge me more on my level of drunkeness I will not be able to afford Uber anymore. But up to now Uber charges have been less than half of what normal taxis cost in Thailand. A Great Service.

 

Wait for it...

 

As I've said before, I'd feel differently about Uber if I lived anywhere but BKK where 90% of the taxis I've dealt with used the meter.

 

[elgenon]

Is Uber still charging a flat 1000 baht to Suvarnabhumi and 1500 when "traffic"? When I heard that I deleted it.

[Ulic]

On double pricing I vote with my feet. No Parks, floating markets etc.. To me a scam to others acceptable. Up to you.

Knowing what Uber is doing I would not use them.  Numerous taxi services to BKK pick up and drop off that are reasonable.

I use a scooter for convenience around town. (Yes I know it is dangerous, defensive driving and helmet always)

As always, the world is full of choices on who you patronize. Up to you.

[samsensam]

 

Uber pricing is very clear. you make your choice, you pay your money. up to you.

 

let economics sort out the market.

[balo]

With Uber you pay what you see on your app , accept it or use a publc taxi and pay 3 times more. Up to you , but so far Uber is much much cheaper than taxis in areas without meter.

Edited May 23, 2017 by balo

[1FinickyOne]

Thanks for the interesting post... it's not my mama's Maypo anymore... though human nature indeed...

 

my local independent van driver has been adjusting prices upward as he is in greater demand too... a one man business and a lovely fellow but who could blame him for getting the most for his time and service... he is a calm and great driver, comfortable and polite and accommodating... and for long trips, sometimes preferable to driving myself, though I mostly drive myself... 

[Skeptic7]

Used Uber once here for about a 7km ride and loved it. The final fare was actually B60 LESS than the fare agreed to on the app!

 

To the airport, so far Uber had quoted 2-3 times higher than metered taxi on every occasion, so refused the Uber and hailed a Taxi Meter each time. On 5 occasions, Uber has been exceedingly higher. If in the ballpark, would use...but no way at 100-200% higher.

[mike324]

I'm guessing Uber may do away with the "surge" pricing, and just make a flat rate increase. I feel like "surge" pricing is their way of gauging how much passengers are willing to pay during rush hour times or during times when cars are less in a certain area. 

 

I think its shady to for them to use double pricing on customers. Customers like having choices and be able to choose, double pricing feels like a rip off which is why people don't take taxis. On the other hand I'm sure they will still be competitively priced, which leaves customers with no choice but still use Uber as its still superior.

[Grumpy Duck]

I understand Uber will tell you the total fare in advance. I will not allow someone to charge me ฿1000 for a ride to BKK I used many taxis with meter and to bkk runs ฿250-฿300 (I always tip ) to/from dmk ฿100-฿300 traffic allowance. A friend of mine uses Uber often even though he has 2 cars he usually uses them when going to parking challenged locations. 

[Gary A]

Uber has a great app. It works quite well. As far as prices, I have gotten their prices a few times and have not used them yet. I thought the prices would be better but that has not been the case.

[elgenon]

I wanted to use Uber but when I heard they had a flat 1000B fare to Suvarnabhumi and 1500B if traffic they lost me as a customer. They told me traffic was bad to the airport (1500B) but I took a taxi meter and there was no traffic.

[Jingthing]

I wanted to use Uber but when I heard they had a flat 1000B fare to Suvarnabhumi and 1500B if traffic they lost me as a customer. They told me traffic was bad to the airport (1500B) but I took a taxi meter and there was no traffic.

That's silly. Why not use them for in city rides? You encountered an exception for airport service.

[bubba]

15 hours ago, elgenon said:

I wanted to use Uber but when I heard they had a flat 1000B fare to Suvarnabhumi and 1500B if traffic they lost me as a customer. They told me traffic was bad to the airport (1500B) but I took a taxi meter and there was no traffic.

Seems you heard wrong.

 

UberX has a flat rate of 300 baht from Bangkok city to either airport. Regardless of traffic or how long it takes, you will still be charged 300 baht. 

 

Also, Uber does not tell you "traffic is bad to the airport".

Edited May 30, 2017 by bubba

[elgenon]

2 hours ago, bubba said:

Seems you heard wrong.

 

UberX has a flat rate of 300 baht from Bangkok city to either airport. Regardless of traffic or how long it takes, you will still be charged 300 baht. 

 

Also, Uber does not tell you "traffic is bad to the airport".

Thanks for the update. Yes, the one time I asked for an Uber ride I was told the traffic surcharge would apply and the fare would be 1500B. I am happy to hear that doesn't happen now and that the fare is lower.

 

Does the 300 baht include the tolls?

[elgenon]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's silly. Why not use them for in city rides? You encountered an exception for airport service.

It left a bad taste in my mouth. High fares and lying about the traffic conditions. How could I trust them? Now that I hear people are having good experiences I am likely to try them again. Thanks for the comment.

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, bubba said:

Seems you heard wrong.

 

UberX has a flat rate of 300 baht from Bangkok city to either airport. Regardless of traffic or how long it takes, you will still be charged 300 baht. 

 

Also, Uber does not tell you "traffic is bad to the airport".

Not in the half dozen previous times I've checked. Just checked and was quoted B535 with info saying price slightly higher due to increased demand.