Trump directly scolds NATO allies, says they owe "massive" sums

[webfact]

Trump directly scolds NATO allies, says they owe "massive" sums

By Steve Holland and Robin Emmott

REUTERS

 

Speaking at a NATO conference on Thursday, U.S. President Trump said NATO members must meet financial obligations. Rough cut (no reporter narration).

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday intensified his accusations that NATO allies were not spending enough on defence and said more attacks such as this week's bombing in Manchester would take place unless the alliance did more to stop militants.

 

In unexpectedly abrupt remarks as NATO leaders stood alongside him, Trump said certain member countries owed "massive amounts of money" to the United States and NATO, even though allied contributions are voluntary, with multiple budgets.

 

His scripted comments contrasted with NATO's choreographed efforts to play up the West's unity by inviting Trump to unveil a memorial to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States at the new NATO headquarters.

 

"We will never waiver in our determination to defeat terrorism and achieve lasting security, prosperity and peace," Trump said in the speech before a dinner with leaders.

 

"Terrorism must be stopped or ... the horror you saw in Manchester and so many other places will continue forever," Trump said, referring to Monday's suicide bombing in the northern English city that killed 22 people, including children.

 

Trump called on NATO, an organisation founded on collective defence against the Soviet threat, to include limiting immigration in its tasks as well as fighting terrorism and deterring Russia.

 

NATO leaders wanted Trump to publicly support the military alliance that he had called "obsolete" during his campaign.

But he instead returned to a grievance about Europe's drop in defence spending since the end of the Cold War and failed to publicly commit to NATO's founding Article V rule which stipulates that an attack on one ally is an attack against all.

 

"Twenty-three of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should be paying for their defence," Trump said, standing by a piece of the wreckage of the Twin Towers.

 

"This is not fair to the people and taxpayers of the United States, and many of these nations owe massive amounts of money from past years," Trump said as the other leaders watched.

 

Nicholas Burns, a former long-time diplomat and ambassador to NATO from 2001-2005, now a professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, said every U.S. president since Harry Truman had pledged support for Article V and that the United States would defend Europe.

 

"Not so Trump today at NATO. Major mistake," he said on Twitter.

 

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said Trump was "100 percent" committed to collective defence. "We are not playing cutesie with this. He is fully committed," Spicer said.

 

"BARE MINIMUM"

 

Praise was always going to be in short supply after Trump's sharp election campaign criticism of the alliance, which he blamed for not doing more to combat terrorism.

 

Last year, Trump threatened to abandon U.S. allies in Europe if they did not spend enough on defence, comments that were particularly unnerving for the ex-Soviet Baltic states on Russia's border which fear Moscow might try a repeat of its 2014 annexation of Ukraine's Crimea.

 

Although he has since softened his tone in phone calls and meetings with Western leaders, Trump's sharp words on Thursday recalled his awkward meeting with Angela Merkel in March, when he pressed the German chancellor for Germany to meet NATO's military spending target.

 

NATO diplomats planned to placate Trump with a pledge on Thursday to agree to national plans by the end of this year showing how NATO allies will meet a promise to spend 2 percent of economic output every year on defence by 2024.

 

But Trump increased the pressure, calling that agreement made at a summit in Wales in 2014 "the bare minimum".

 

"Even 2 percent of GDP is insufficient ... 2 percent is the bare minimum for confronting today's very real and very viscous threats," Trump said.

 

He also made his presence felt at his first NATO summit, literally, pushing his way past Montenego's prime minister, Dusko Markovic, whose country joins the organisation next month, in footage that went viral.

 

Spicer said he had not seen the video but assumed the U.S. president was moving to his designated spot.

 

NATO nonetheless strived to impress Trump with allied jets flying overhead and a walk through the new glass headquarters, which replaces a 1960s prefab structure.

 

Trump, a real estate magnate, called the building "beautiful" and joked that he did not dare ask how much it cost.

 

It was left to NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg to try to hammer home the message of unity.

 

"NATO is more than a club, more than an organisation. NATO embodies the unique bond between Europe and North America," Stoltenberg said. "As we raise our flags today, our alliance stands strong united and resolute," he said.

 

In one nod to Trump, NATO leaders are due to agree later on Thursday for the Western military bloc to join the U.S.-led, 68-nation coalition against Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

 

(Writing by Robin Emmott, additional reporting by Jeff Mason, Gabriela Baczynska, Sabine Siebold, Phil Blenkinsop and Robert-Jan Bartunek; Editing by Alison Williams)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-26

[habanero]

Good!  I hope he sticks to it. After all,  fair is fair...........

[darksidedog]

Someone needs to explain to Donald that NATO members don't each get a definitive bill. None of them "owe" anything.

With an agreement that members will spend 2% of GDP by 2024 in place, that is the start and finish to it.

Talking like this is only going to piss your allies off and prove once again that the wrong man is in the job.

[tonray]

Putin is popping the champagne corks....nothing could make him happier than discord within NATO. Success for Russia

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, tonray said:

Putin is popping the champagne corks....nothing could make him happier than discord within NATO. Success for Russia

He simply couldn't be getting better results. Trump is a Traitor.

 

I was hoping when he said in his speech that 'America spends more on defence than all the other NATO countries put together" some aspiring global leader would have said 'Yes Mr President but you also have more of your own citizens dying each year because they cannot get medical treatment than all the other NATO countries put together'.

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, tonray said:

Putin is popping the champagne corks....nothing could make him happier than discord within NATO. Success for Russia

 

Plus it was done at very little cost in Rubles.

 

Think about the billions Russia/Soviets spent on security services during 1950s-2000 trying to destabilize the west.

 

And with just a few million dollars they were able to utilize big-data/social media to swing an election in favor of a puppet who is willing to do their work, albeit unwittingly.

[simple1]

59 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Someone needs to explain to Donald that NATO members don't each get a definitive bill. None of them "owe" anything.

With an agreement that members will spend 2% of GDP by 2024 in place, that is the start and finish to it.

Talking like this is only going to piss your allies off and prove once again that the wrong man is in the job.

Trump also needs to understand the funding / accounting process for NATO, which as this stage he doesn't.

 

Why Trump is simply wrong

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/30/trumps-claim-that-the-u-s-pays-the-lions-share-for-nato/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.e21bbe15ff2e

Edited May 26, 2017 by simple1

[alanrchase]

Good!  I hope he sticks to it. After all,  fair is fair...........

If all other NATO members raised their spending to 2% do you really believe that the USA would then cut its defence spending? As for fair is fair, it always seems to be the US that drags other NATO countries into their conflicts.

[habanero]

Just now, alanrchase said:

 

If all other NATO members raised their spending to 2% do you really believe that the USA would then cut its defence spending? As for fair is fair, it always seems to be the US that drags other NATO countries into their conflicts.

 

No, I don't think the U.S. would cut their defence spending. But, it could be channeled elsewhere.  

[alanrchase]

No, I don't think the U.S. would cut their defence spending. But, it could be channeled elsewhere.  

Defence spending is defence spending. If it is channeled elsewhere it is no longer defence spending.

[boomerangutang]

Much of what Trump accuses others of, .....he himself is guilty of 20 times worse.

 

                                           Trump is famous for bilking contractors (who finished work on his hotels, etc) for money-owed.  He's done it hundreds of times - even putting some workers out of business.  When they complain, Trump says, "go ahead and sue me.  I don't care.  You'll never win because it will never come to court."   Then he might add, "I never lose a court case.  I always win."  ......which of course is an giant lie.

 

                        BTW, individual EU countries spend quite of bit of money on their home defense forces.  That should count for at least some of their collective expenses toward NATO defense.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

1 minute ago, alanrchase said:

Defence spending is defence spending. If it is channeled elsewhere it is no longer defence spending.

 

                       If some of the money for soldiers & weapons were channeled instead toward teaching people to be more self-reliant, healthier, learn martial arts, develop alternative energy   ......then that is not strictly 'defense spending'  (according to Pentagon and weapons manufacturers' definition) .....but it does contribute to the strength of a country, and its ability to protect itself against outside threats.

 

                                     Just the word 'Defense' (American spelling) is off-putting.   Most 'defense' spending is on weapons and resources used for offense.   It would be more accurate to call it 'Offense Spending.'   More reasonable, would be to call it 'Military Spending.'

 

                         Even with trillions of dollars of 'defense spending', the most mighty military (and most bloated intelligence services) in world history couldn't keep 19 guys with 45 cent cutter knives from bombing the Trade Towers and the Pentagon.  Then, 16 years later, the American president picks Saudi Arabia as his first overseas destination, and curtsies to the Saudi King.  The same Saudi Arabia which provided all but one of the Twin Tower bombers (the exception was Lebanese). 

 

 

[mtls2005]

Trump thinks NATO is like one of his country clubs, and he's just berating some members for not paying their annual dues.

 

 

 

[Estrada]

The United States should pay compensation for training Osama Bin Laden's terrorists to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, which led to the rise of Al Qaeda and later, ISIS. Also for invading Iraq and causing problems in Libya and Syria as a result.

[habanero]

27 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Much of what Trump accuses others of, .....he himself is guilty of 20 times worse.

 

                                           Trump is famous for bilking contractors (who finished work on his hotels, etc) for money-owed.  He's done it hundreds of times - even putting some workers out of business.  When they complain, Trump says, "go ahead and sue me.  I don't care.  You'll never win because it will never come to court."   Then he might add, "I never lose a court case.  I always win."  ......which of course is an giant lie.

 

                        BTW, individual EU countries spend quite of bit of money on their home defense forces.  That should count for at least some of their collective expenses toward NATO defense.

 

 

Apples and Oranges

[klauskunkel]

One country owes a "massive" sum, another owes a "tremendous" sum and yet another one owes the sum of all sums. Sum-one give the man a calculator.

[mtls2005]

 

[Juan B Tong]

This is wonderful news. Now the bloated alcoholics have more Trump bashing and anti USA topics to babble about on their afternoons sitting on their stools in the beer bars.  

[Langsuan Man]

3 minutes ago, Juan B Tong said:

This is wonderful news. Now the bloated alcoholics have more Trump bashing and anti USA topics to babble about on their afternoons sitting on their stools in the beer bars.  

Did you even look at the video posted ?  

 

Do the Trumpeters think that it is presidential to push your way to be in the first row for a picture session ?  Pretty classless and narcissistic,  IMHO 

[sanukjim]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Someone needs to explain to Donald that NATO members don't each get a definitive bill. None of them "owe" anything.

With an agreement that members will spend 2% of GDP by 2024 in place, that is the start and finish to it.

Talking like this is only going to piss your allies off and prove once again that the wrong man is in the job.

Well if the slackers in NATO don't start paying more to their own defense where will they be if The US pulls out ? NATO was a good idea to keep The  Americans loosing their lives by going to Europe every twenty years or so ,pulling some of the nations out of the crap because they couldn't defend their self s.

Edited May 26, 2017 by sanukjim

[Prbkk]

37 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

That is truly awful. Is it that he doesn't understand that the rest of the world views him as the quintessential "ugly American " ( in the Burdick/Lederer sense) or is that he doesn't care?

[alanrchase]

 

Thanks. Now I am stuck with a mental picture of Trump trampling over women and children to get to the front of the lifeboat queue on a sinking ship.

[Traveler19491]

47 minutes ago, Juan B Tong said:

This is wonderful news. Now the bloated alcoholics have more Trump bashing and anti USA topics to babble about on their afternoons sitting on their stools in the beer bars.  

Says the guy with nothing intelligent to contribute. But, then, intelligence is probably asking too much.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Traveler19491

[Traveler19491]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Much of what Trump accuses others of, .....he himself is guilty of 20 times worse.

 

                                           Trump is famous for bilking contractors (who finished work on his hotels, etc) for money-owed.  He's done it hundreds of times - even putting some workers out of business.  When they complain, Trump says, "go ahead and sue me.  I don't care.  You'll never win because it will never come to court."   Then he might add, "I never lose a court case.  I always win."  ......which of course is an giant lie.

 

                        BTW, individual EU countries spend quite of bit of money on their home defense forces.  That should count for at least some of their collective expenses toward NATO defense.

 

 

Trump talking about "fair" is like Charles Manson talking about mercy.

[Scott]

A post with an aberrant spelling of the President's name has been removed.   His name is Trump, aberrations will be removed and continuing to do so will result in suspensions.  

 

[Seismic]

51 minutes ago, sanukjim said:

Well if the slackers in NATO don't start paying more to their own defense where will they be if The US pulls out ? NATO was a good idea to keep The  Americans loosing their lives by going to Europe every twenty years or so ,pulling some of the nations out of the crap because they couldn't defend their self s.

It seems you have as little understanding of NATO and defence spending as Trump. Each countries defence spending is separate from and has nothing to do with its commitment to NATO.

[Thailand]

45 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

That is truly awful. Is it that he doesn't understand that the rest of the world views him as the quintessential "ugly American " ( in the Burdick/Lederer sense) or is that he doesn't care?

Total arrogance,.

Sadly I think the terrorists are saving a really big one for the US ,so quiet on that front it has to be coming.

[iReason]

51 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Thanks. Now I am stuck with a mental picture of Trump trampling over women and children to get to the front of the lifeboat queue on a sinking ship.

 

 

I think you are accurately predicting the fate of the poor souls on the Trumptanic...

Edited May 26, 2017 by iReason

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   This thread isn't about WWII.

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, habanero said:

Good!  I hope he sticks to it. After all,  fair is fair...........

Like, Trump, You have little idea what you are talking about.

 

NATO is designed such that an attack on one is considered an attack on all. So regardless of the size of your nations defence you contribute to the effort of bringing down your allies foe. This CANNOT apply to terrorist attacks when there is no formal declaration of war by the ally against another sovereign nation. "war on terror" does not legally qualify.

 

Since WW2, the USA has had a global policy of finding as many countries as it can that will permit it to have strategic military bases so that it can project military power in close proximity to its main adversaries. The US military presence in the vast majority of other countries is one of choice by the US and NOT to be there for the defence of that nation, but to allow a rapid American military response against countries that could threaten American interests if conflict broke out. These bases which are used as forward deployment and logistics hubs are vital for US force projection. The USA does NOT pay anywhere near as much 'rent' as it should for the use of these bases and the land they are on, and when it rightfully does pay rent, Trump sees that as a contribution of payments to NATO - which it is NOT. The US military strategy could not work if they were to move out of all their foreign military bases. For example, the anti ballistic missile defence shield being set up in Eastern Europe is not for the protection of Eastern Europe but for the protection of the USA but Trump thinks NATO or the country it is based in should pay more to have it there!!. Trump and his mass-hypnotised supporters are WRONG, and the heads of state knew it when they were all smirking and thinking <deleted> at the NATO meeting.