Exclusive - Tillerson declines to host Ramadan event at State Department: sources

[NanLaew]

23 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Saudi Arabia is not Islam. One of my team took time off last week to attend the confirmation of his daughter in a catholic church in Muscat, presided over by an Indian priest in one of six churches in the city that were built by Sultan Qaboos. Sorry if that doesn't back up your narrative that most Muslim majority countries are intollerant of other cultures, but would you not prefer to rely upon fact to make your point?

Yes, but the leaders of the free world don't go sword dancing in Oman do they?

 

When I was stuck in Baghdad after the Kuwait invasion, like all the other 'guests', I could freely buy and publicly consume alcohol and pork products. Meant bugger all in the great scheme of things but certainly made my 6 months of detention simply fly by. That and the US$ that we were allowed to smuggle in via Syria by our hard-pressed Iraqi hosts.

 

It's not that the majority of Muslim countries or those of Muslim faith are not religiously intolerant, it's just we keep sucking up to the big, important, self-appointed guardian of the faith ones that are.

[buick]

30 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean students and teachers don't say "merry christmas" or "happy Hanukkah" or "Joyous Kwanzaa" etc. ? You got some proof of this?

 

of course individuals will use whatever term they prefer in conversations amongst themselves (just a like a group of racists might use the N word quite freely amongst themselves).  but a teacher or manager at the office, doesn't say merry christmas to the class/office meeting.  happy holidays is the politically correct term and has been in use a long time.  i'm from california, it might be different in other areas of the USA.  next time you are in the USA, take a look at the billboard outside of the local school (around christmas time), it will say 'happy holidays'.   children are not totally aware of the political correctness so i'm talking mainly teachers and managers in the workplace (when they are addressing a group, not another individual).

Edited May 27, 2017 by buick

[NanLaew]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well spotted - however my point was in reference to the OP suggesting that the majority of Muslim countries were intollerant, citing Saudi Arabia's intollerance of bibles and crosses as justification for his statement.

A simple google search of "Catholic church in...' and insert any ME country will reveal that Chrsitianity is openly practiced in most countries in the region.

...it's just that Christian practitioners frequently get machine gunned in some Muslim countries.

[sanukjim]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Further evidence that this administration is headed in completely the wrong direction and appears to be seriously and openly anti Muslim.

At a time when engaging with Muslims would be the smart move, instead they snub a tradition, that will only further anger and alienate them.

It wouldn't surprise me if this stupidity is Steve Bannons work.

Ah Yes another liberal heard from.

[tomwct]

Good for him! No need to be political correct anymore! The left is out of office. He should hold an event to mourn 3000 Dead Americans

on 9/11 and not the 19 Dead Arab Muslims that caused the event!

[crystal sauce]

Just now, tomwct said:

Good for him! No need to be political correct anymore! The left is out of office. He should hold an event to mourn 3000 Dead Americans

on 9/11 and not the 19 Dead Arab Muslims that caused the event!

Come on for God's sake for get about it, otherwise we would also remember the victims of the American nuclear attack on Japan and the victims of half a million Iraqi babies died because they only needed milk.

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, crystal sauce said:

half a million Iraqi babies died because they only needed milk

Ah yes, and so the myth perpetuates.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Good. Not a good time to be kowtowing to Muzzies. By the way Government should be only for essential services. I'm tired of them picking my pocket, cancel the other parties and gala balls also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Traveler19491]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Anti Islam not anti Muslim at all, why should non Islamic states pander to religious faiths that want to do us harm us? Let them have their Ramadan, but leave us out of the nonsense.

Ah, yes...the brilliance of the willfully ignorant shines on.

 

Being as all Muslims practice the faith of Islam ("All Muslims look for guidance to the Quran and believe in the prophetic mission of Muhammad..." - Wikipedia), I would say that being anti-Islam would pretty much make one anti-Muslim. How do you separate the belief from the person? Belief defines a person. Respecting any faith that is not your own is simply that...respect. It is not "pandering". And, no, it is not the belief that seeks to do us harm, it is the warped interpretation of that belief. You know, kind of like the christofascist belief in "Dominionism"; that it is the responsibility of fundamentalists to eliminate the Constitution and usher in a bible-based theocracy in the U. S. THAT is a warped interpretation of the bible that seeks to undermine the Constitution and do away with our fundamental rights, forcing non-believers to live their lives according to the beliefs of others. Kind of like the christofascist belief that the God favors white people and expects gays to be discriminated against. THAT is a warped interpretation of scripture that seeks to justify bigotry.  THOSE  are warped interpretations that mean to do harm to anyone who doesn't believe the same as religious right wing whack jobs. Moderate Islamic clerics, the same as moderate Christian clerics, correctly teach that extremism is a bastardization of the genuine teachings of their sacred texts.

 

The State Department recognizing Ramadan is in no way "pandering". It is meant as a show of respect for the practitioners of one of the world's leading religions (I do believe that the Trump acknowledged Islam's "greatness" while in Saudi Arabia, did he not? Oh, and by the way, he also failed to use the term "Islamic extremism", which I believe he castigated both Obama and Clinton for not doing). A show of respect is not weakness. It is a demonstration of the openness and tolerance that is a historic characteristic of American greatness. Except for the closed-minded xenophobic snowflakes.

[crystal sauce]

43 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

pork products.

Bactria.

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, Traveler19491 said:

Ah, yes...the brilliance of the willfully ignorant shines on.

 

Being as all Muslims practice the faith of Islam ("All Muslims look for guidance to the Quran and believe in the prophetic mission of Muhammad..." - Wikipedia), I would say that being anti-Islam would pretty much make one anti-Muslim. How do you separate the belief from the person? Belief defines a person. Respecting any faith that is not your own is simply that...respect. It is not "pandering". And, no, it is not the belief that seeks to do us harm, it is the warped interpretation of that belief. You know, kind of like the christofascist belief in "Dominionism"; that it is the responsibility of fundamentalists to eliminate the Constitution and usher in a bible-based theocracy in the U. S. THAT is a warped interpretation of the bible that seeks to undermine the Constitution and do away with our fundamental rights, forcing non-believers to live their lives according to the beliefs of others. Kind of like the christofascist belief that the God favors white people and expects gays to be discriminated against. THAT is a warped interpretation of scripture that seeks to justify bigotry.  THOSE  are warped interpretations that mean to do harm to anyone who doesn't believe the same as religious right wing whack jobs. Moderate Islamic clerics, the same as moderate Christian clerics, correctly teach that extremism is a bastardization of the genuine teachings of their sacred texts.

 

The State Department recognizing Ramadan is in no way "pandering". It is meant as a show of respect for the practitioners of one of the world's leading religions (I do believe that the Trump acknowledged Islam's "greatness" while in Saudi Arabia, did he not? Oh, and by the way, he also failed to use the term "Islamic extremism", which I believe he castigated both Obama and Clinton for not doing). A show of respect is not weakness. It is a demonstration of the openness and tolerance that is a historic characteristic of American greatness. Except for the closed-minded xenophobic snowflakes.

Excellent post - well done!

[crystal sauce]

22 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Ah yes, and so the myth perpetuates.

How dare you.

[sanukjim]

37 minutes ago, tomwct said:

Good for him! No need to be political correct anymore! The left is out of office. He should hold an event to mourn 3000 Dead Americans

on 9/11 and not the 19 Dead Arab Muslims that caused the event!

Do you think that Manchester is going to honor romadan now ?

[CGW]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

There seems to be a fair bit of anti Islam feeling about, which I do understand. I think what many are missing is how do you expect other people to mingle in with you and become part of society, when you exclude them? The Ramadan observance is a long held tradition, so stopping it now sends the wrong message. Failing to do it this year probably sent a few thousand more to the dark side. If you give off hate, you can sure as hell, expect it to come right back at you.

Even if you consider them to be your enemy, you should still be prepared to engage with them. Remember the old saying, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

You have never spent any time in a "Muslim" country! stop believing all the pc spin and engage a few brain cells!

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Nurseynutcase said:

Slightly off topic buuut,

 

I am a committed atheist, however, I was always happy to receive christmas cards and greeted people with the words at christmas time.  I have also attended Eid and Diwali celebrations in peoples houses and have always been welcomed by people of all races, creeds, colours and sexual orientation.

 

However as the USA is primarily a christian country should the White House be holding such celebrations?  Does it do the same for people of other non-muslim, non-christian religions?  i.e. jewish, buddist, hindus, etc?  If they do there must be one long party going on in the White House.

Actually IMO it is not off topic as the US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and celebrates such with the WH hosting celebrations of the Abrahamic religions, Hinduism and Buddhism. If the Sec of State has declined to host a celebration for the end of Ramadan he's sending out a contradictory message to Trump's speech in Saudi Arabia; not a good look for the Administration.

Edited May 27, 2017 by simple1

[KarenBravo]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Saudi Arabia is not Islam. One of my team took time off last week to attend the confirmation of his daughter in a catholic church in Muscat, presided over by an Indian priest in one of six churches in the city that were built by Sultan Qaboos. Sorry if that doesn't back up your narrative that most Muslim majority countries are intollerant of other cultures, but would you not prefer to rely upon fact to make your point?

OK, let's put it another way in the form of a question.

Which religion is the most intolerant of other religions?

[darksidedog]

54 minutes ago, CGW said:

You have never spent any time in a "Muslim" country! stop believing all the pc spin and engage a few brain cells!

I lived and worked in India for three years and Dubai for four and China, which has many Muslims for three.  In India my Boss and my Landlord were Muslim. Here in Thailand my landlady is Muslim. My next door neighbour is too. Lovely chap, very friendly, even after my dog killed two of his cats.

I have many Muslim friends from all over the world, even though I am Christian, so the first half of your post is clearly rubbish.

The problem with your post and many others is that you have fallen into the trap of believing that the majority of Muslims are evil, blood thirsty, intolerant people, which is utter rubbish. The issue is with a very small minority, who will cling to any perceived sleight to justify their actions. Cancelling the observation in Washington will probably be used as a call to jihad by one or more nutters.

Only when you share respect and understanding can you ever bridge the divide between differing people. Or would you see the conflict last another 1,000 years?

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Actually IMO it is not off topic as the US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and celebrates such with the WH hosting celebrations of the Abrahamic religions, Hinduism and Buddhism. If the Sec of State has declined to host a celebration for the end of Ramadan he's sending out a contradictory message to Trump's speech in Saudi Arabia; not a good look for the Administration.

The majority of terror acts worldwide are committed by Muslims. Hindu and Buddhist governments are not supporting subversives and terror around the world while bleating platitudes to the West. Look up the doctrine of Taqiyya, accepted by all sects of Islam they are tricking us.

What kind of religion, has huge numbers of adherents support blowing up little girls? Islam to reform itself, like the other religions have done and get out of the 8th century before it is treated with respect as a great religion of the world.

[CGW]

19 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

I lived and worked in India for three years and Dubai for four and China, which has many Muslims for three.  In India my Boss and my Landlord were Muslim. Here in Thailand my landlady is Muslim. My next door neighbour is too. Lovely chap, very friendly, even after my dog killed two of his cats.

Very admirable, my apologies, though note that you have never lived in a majority Muslim country, India, at most 14%?, Dubai - really a non starter as just a money making place where just about anything is tolerated, China, Muslim? maximum of 1.6% of the population, the vast majority of which westerners would never come into contact with.

So you have never had the pleasure of seeing how people are treated in Saudi, Egypt, Turkey and other predominantly Muslim countries? lovely people indeed!

[Thakkar]

Ramadan  celebrations at the State department is a 20 year tradition. Other faiths are also celebrated. The State Dept is about diplomacy and getting along with people of different beliefs. 

 

This cancellation is an admission that anyone that's not their base hates this administration no matter what it does; That Their base are bigots and that this is the way to consolidate the only people they can count on.

 

If that is their game, the comments on this thread is proof that the administration is spot on.

[blackson]

Outstanding Rex! Keep America great, make it Greater!

You are on the right path, keep up the good work.

Nation-ism abounds.

[simple1]

57 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

The majority of terror acts worldwide are committed by Muslims. Hindu and Buddhist governments are not supporting subversives and terror around the world while bleating platitudes to the West. Look up the doctrine of Taqiyya, accepted by all sects of Islam they are tricking us.

What kind of religion, has huge numbers of adherents support blowing up little girls? Islam to reform itself, like the other religions have done and get out of the 8th century before it is treated with respect as a great religion of the world.

You can blah blah as much as you like, but with reference to the OP there is a larger diplomatic picture with which the Trump Administration appear to be not in sych - no surprise!. BTW need to update your yourself with oppression and abuse also carried out in today's world by non Muslims.

[Jingthing]

As an American, I would like to see the federal government show respect to all religions that are represented in the American population (all of them).

Islam, of course, but also Satanism and Atheism.

No, I'm not kidding. 

Recognition of major holidays ... who does it hurt?

As far as religion goes, the biggest threat to American democracy comes from the majority Christian population, because sadly a significant portion of them are working very hard to make the USA more of a Christian theocratic nation and that is definitely against the intention of the founders. Indeed, that extremist theocratic movement is represented by our very vice president, Pence, who outrageously describes himself as a Christian first, before even being an American. That's OK for a clergyman but dangerous for a vice president or president. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Jingthing

[55Jay]

Bravo Zulu to Tillerson for tackling this sacred cow, and further, not giving a s**t about the predictable drama show from the churlish, drum beating MSM. 

 

American politicos and Diplodunk peacocks need to abandon the pattern of attention seeking behavior to appear "engaged", and to feed their career narcissism. 

 

Instead, take example from some Arab leaders who simply send a "Cable of Good Wishes" to mark an important holiday or significant date.  No need to get carried away with disingenuous spectacles and awkward "mandatory fun" events. 

 

Come on, leave these folks alone and let them get on with their holidays with family, friends and peers.   Once the MSM stops shrieking about how terrible it will be if the US doesn't host an Iftar Nosebag..... you'll likely hear a unified sigh of relief from all quarters.

Edited May 27, 2017 by 55Jay

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

Very admirable, my apologies, though note that you have never lived in a majority Muslim country, India, at most 14%?, Dubai - really a non starter as just a money making place where just about anything is tolerated, China, Muslim? maximum of 1.6% of the population, the vast majority of which westerners would never come into contact with.

So you have never had the pleasure of seeing how people are treated in Saudi, Egypt, Turkey and other predominantly Muslim countries? lovely people indeed!

So Dubai does not count because it contradicts your statements.

 

I have lived in Egypt for quite some time and do find darksidedog made an excellent post with which I wholeheartedly agree. Does that count?

[dunroaming]

Well after Trump saying that Islam was one of great religions of the world, it is good to see that at least Tillerson is sticking to the original racist script.  Then we all know where we are with this bunch of morons.

5 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

People are holding the USA to insane levels of religious tolerance compared to most Muslim majority nations. Is that fair?

It is true that many Muslim countries are not liberal at all and apply strict rules when it comes to religion.  Clearly, rather than condemning that, you feel that the USA should do exactly the same? 

[Usernames]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

I think we can drop the nonsense about "Merry Christmas".   Last Christmas, I wished a Merry Christmas in a lot of places, including in a government office and by clerks with major retailers.  

And what did they say in reply?

[chilli42]

I would think that this needs to be put in context before it's damned.  Does the state department celebrate other non Christian religious events .... those of Bhuddist, Hindu, Zorastan, Jewish etc?  If so and they are now snubbing Muslims well that looks short sighted.  If not then why should we care that the Muslim faith is no longer accorded a special acknowledgement?

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Aides point to Trump's visit this month to Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam where he addressed the leaders of more than 50 Muslim countries, as evidence of that.

 

Did they learn this finger pointing cover your ars* thing from Thailand?. Would love to see Tillerson show up pointed shoes and all. No Tillerson its not Halloween its Ramadan. Yes time to play to the people you have tried to ban. Its called politics not rationality. 

[Usernames]

6 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

I would think that this needs to be put in context before it's damned.  Does the state department celebrate other non Christian religious events .... those of Bhuddist, Hindu, Zorastan, Jewish etc?  If so and they are now snubbing Muslims well that looks short sighted.  If not then why should we care that the Muslim faith is no longer accorded a special acknowledgement?

Yea, can't remember Buddha's birthday ever being celebrated at the State Department. Maybe a presidential statement, but not a full blown dinner and celebration like the moslems get.