Too late to become a bitcoin millionaire?

[Jingthing]

Bitcoin value is up, up, up.

I've never been interested in bitcoin (seems a mistake now, duh).

But this guy suggests it may not be too late?

What do you think?

I'm skeptical for a number of reasons, including the guy has a vested interest in the success of bitcoin.

But still. Hmm.

 

Quote

The formula, according to Casares? Take 1% or less of what you own, buy bitcoin with it, and then forget about it for at least the next five years; ideally the next decade. “You either lose one percent of your net worth, which most people can take, or you make millions,” he told a room of cryptocurrency advocates at the Westin in Times Square.

https://qz.com/990088/how-to-become-a-bitcoin-millionaire-according-to-wences-casares-of-xapo/

[impulse]

Yup.  

 

Too late to get in on the top level of this pyramid scheme.

 

Besides, what's to stop an Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos from launching a competing currency that's actually backed by someone and an organization whose name we know?  (Edit:  Other than the risk of prison time for launching an unsanctioned currency)

 

Unless, of course, you have a few hundred million in drug money (or ransom money) you need to hide and you have no safe alternative.  

 

If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) Bernie Madoff was thriving longer than Bitcoin has been.

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by impulse

[robblok]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Yup.  

 

Too late to get in on the top level of this pyramid scheme.

 

Besides, what's to stop an Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos from launching a competing currency that's actually backed by someone and an organization whose name we know?  (Edit:  Other than the risk of prison time for launching an unsanctioned currency)

 

Unless, of course, you have a few hundred million in drug money (or ransom money) you need to hide and you have no safe alternative.  

 

If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) Bernie Madoff was thriving longer than Bitcoin has been.

 

Quite a few people made nice money in crypto currencies. I am not sure if now is a good time to get in I am in a currency too (not bitcoin). Should have chosen bitcoin the one i am in is ok but a bit hard to trade. 

 

The whole unsanctioned currency is a bit of a red herring its all about having faith in a currency its not like the other major currencies have gold to back them up. Thing is governments don't like crypto currencies because its hard to trace and tax. 

[lkn]

He is arguing “buying and holding” because if it succeeds, it will be worth $1 million per coin.

 

But what does succeeds mean? That everybody is just buying and holding onto it? How is that success?

 

If Bitcoin wants to succeed as an alternative currency, it must be useful for something other than just buying and holding, and I would argue that it also needs to be less volatile.

 

[KittenKong]

The only reason that bitcoin goes up in value is because the number of them is limited and some people (currently the Chinese) are daft enough to see them as an investment. When those people change their minds the value will drop as fast, or faster, than it rose.

 

Cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and, as mentioned, they are the ultimate pyramid scheme. At least when you bought tulips in the early 1600s you got a tulip. Buy bitcoin and you just get a string of random numbers.

[taiping]

Jingthing -- As someone who actually has Bitcoins which I bought a few years ago my net cost per Bitcoin is now zero, so I intend to hold on to them, wherever the price goes, at least for now. 

But it's always been a gamble so if you want a small flutter with money you can afford to loose then go ahead.

 

But just to comment on some of the other posts with my 2 satoshies worth . . .

It is not a "pyramid scheme." It's a very interesting mathematical concept which some mainstream financial institutions are looking at.

"other major currencies" do not have gold to back them up. They have the full faith and reputation of governments backing them up (!). At least there's a finite limit of about 21-million to the total number of Bitcoins that can be created, unlike fiat currencies where governments can print the stuff ad infinitum.

I think the Chinese are interested in Bitcoins in order to avoid currency controls, not as an investment.

 

I have no experience in other cryptocurrencies, but for a variety of reasons Erthereum and Ripple look interesting.

However, Bitcoin still maintains the largest market cap.

Sounds to me like sour grapes from the naysayers.

 

 

 

[oxo1947]

As someone who knows zero about this----how do you cash them in...( into $$ if that's what you want to do) do you have to advertise for a buyer of them ??

[taiping]

Just now, oxo1947 said:

As someone who knows zero about this----how do you cash them in...( into $$ if that's what you want to do) do you have to advertise for a buyer of them ??

In a variety of ways. Sell them for fiat currency on a Bitcoin exchange (I like Bitstamp), or sell them locally face to face using https://localbitcoins.com/

 

[mjnaus]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and, as mentioned, they are the ultimate pyramid scheme. At least when you bought tulips in the early 1600s you got a tulip. Buy bitcoin and you just get a string of random numbers.

 

Every single currency that exists today is intrinsically worthless. The fact that you refer to crypto currencies as a "pyramid scheme" indicates you either do not know the first thing about these currencies, or you don't know what a pyramid scheme is (or both). 

[spidermike007]

It does seem a bit late in the game. I remember hearing about bitcoin almost 20 years ago. Back then it was under one cent per coin. But, you had to have a great deal of skill to use the system, as there were no brokers like there are today. Many years later, it climbed to one dollar. And the brokers started to prop up. Now, that was a good time to get in. But now?

[williamgeorgeallen]

question. are any currencies worth anything? are any of them backed by metals?  the whole system has been corrupted. even bricks and mortar have become prone to speculation with bubbles and busts. only safe bet is owning your own home outright, well not in thailand but in your home country anyway, if you can handle living there.

[taiping]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

It does seem a bit late in the game. I remember hearing about bitcoin almost 20 years ago. Back then it was under one cent per coin. But, you had to have a great deal of skill to use the system, as there were no brokers like there are today. Many years later, it climbed to one dollar. And the brokers started to prop up. Now, that was a good time to get in. But now?

"almost 20 years ago"? The first paper on Bitcoin was published in November 2008, and in January 2009 the the bitcoin network came into existence with the release of the first open source bitcoin client and the issuance of the first Bitcoins.

I first became interested in March 2013, when Bitcoins were about $48.

 

[Deez]

When everyone starts talking about it the smart money is already out. Think dot com 1999

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, taiping said:

"almost 20 years ago"? The first paper on Bitcoin was published in November 2008, and in January 2009 the the bitcoin network came into existence with the release of the first open source bitcoin client and the issuance of the first Bitcoins.

I first became interested in March 2013, when Bitcoins were about $48.

 

 

I stand corrected. I seems like 20 years ago. Only 8 short years. Wow. Amazing rise. 

[csabo]

1 hour ago, oxo1947 said:

As someone who knows zero about this----how do you cash them in...( into $$ if that's what you want to do) do you have to advertise for a buyer of them ??

 

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, taiping said:

1 hour ago, oxo1947 said:

knows zero about this----how do you cash them in...( into $$ if that's what you want to do) do you have to advertise for a buyer of them ??

In a variety of ways. Sell them for fiat currency on a Bitcoin exchange (I like Bitstamp), or sell them locally face to face using https://localbitcoins.com/

 

 

 

bx.in.th  is also good
 

[Seducedbytheseas]

There is still money to be made. The market is getting saturated though so finding the right entry is key. Check out Ethereum. Done well here.

 

[PattayaPete]

This thread is like a time warp.  Ponzi, intrinsic value, tulips blah blah blah.  The world moved on from these uninformed but oft repeated memes, years ago.

 

I got into bitcoin in 2013 when the price was $35.  It had risen meteorically from a few cents and people were lamenting then that it was too late to get in.  The price today is $2148 for one bitcoin!  Bitcoin has been my best investment ever, in a lifetime  of investing, by orders of magnitude.  

 

From a purely speculative point of view there are only two outcomes for bitcoin.  A huge price increase to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands or total collapse.  There are no other options.  So from a purely speculative point of view you should invest a modest amount that you are prepared to lose.  If the upside plays out you win big and if the down side plays out you lose your modest investment.  Do be aware that a bitcoin can be divided into very small pieces so you can easily buy $1 or $5 or $23.25 worth if you want.

 

From a scientific point of view, how and why bitcoin works, has intrinsic value and is undoubtedly the greatest invention since the internet itself is a fascinating story.  Understanding takes a bit of effort but the effort is well worth it.  A google search will lead you to endless resources to facilitate a decent study of the concept.  If you really understand bitcoin you will be blown away by the sheer brilliance of its invention and the great beauty of its form.  

 

So either put in the effort to properly understand how it works or speculate without knowledge.  In either case I predict you will be a big winner.  Alternatively, parrot the ponzi, Chinese, tulip memes and sit on the side line and continue to miss out.

 

 

 

 

[fishbrando]

The best way to get into Bitcoin/crypotcurrencies is to start using it in a small way.

 

• First find out how to buy/obtain Bitcoin and learn what a wallet is
• Then find out how to transfer small amounts (maybe 3000 baht worth) to your phone
• Learn to use Bitcoin tools online to see transactions happen
• Then find out who takes bitcoin as payment and figure out how to spend it  
  • There are a few restaurants in Bangkok that take Bitcoin like Soi'Keb and Eat Me
  • Pattaya Beer Garden also is (or was?) a great place to use Bitcoin
• Try moving money in/out of Thailand via Bitcoin vs. using an ATM or bank transfer and note the costs involved
• Use Bitcoin to donate to your favorite charities and causes online
• Learn more about Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies via forums
• Learn about the history of Bitcoin and especially the failure of Mt. Gox
• Watch some videos especially by Andreas Antonopoulous
• Convinced of Bitcoin's utility/worth?  Start investing more into Bitcoin and find out how to safely store large amounts

[maisodni]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does seem a bit late in the game. I remember hearing about bitcoin almost 20 years ago. Back then it was under one cent per coin. But, you had to have a great deal of skill to use the system, as there were no brokers like there are today. Many years later, it climbed to one dollar. And the brokers started to prop up. Now, that was a good time to get in. But now?

Your comment is interesting, given that the original Whitepaper that outlined the Bitcoin concept was only published in November 2008, and the Genesis block of the Bitcoin blockchain was mined in January 2009.

 

The Whitepaper is only 9 pages long:   https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

 

No one should be bad-mouthing Bitcoin unless they have read this document, because otherwise, you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[ThailandLOS]

6 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and, as mentioned, they are the ultimate pyramid scheme. At least when you bought tulips in the early 1600s you got a tulip. Buy bitcoin and you just get a string of random numbers.

So is the paper money of today including the USD - try taking a stack of bills to the FED and ask them to exchange for gold.

 

Currencies of today are only representing a fictive value that can be changed any time of the powers in charge. Just look what happened in India a few months ago (people died because their money suddenly became worthless). See this a first major trial of the 'cashless society' soon coming to place near you.

 

Crypto can not be diluted or deemed worthless by governments, this is the whole point - this is why they are on their way to set up their own block chain ledgers - to present 'an alternative'. And guess what happens to your address (account) in that government controlled ledger if they decide to go after you.

 

Bitcoin  is perceived as a safe haven comparable to gold. Most of the price increase/decrease is driven by people escaping/returning from/to paper money - and not investors. Other major crypto currencies have additional features e.g. tailor made for casinos or financial transactions - these have the investment potential that bitcoin has pretty much exhausted.

 

Crypto definitely has a place in every wealth management portfolio - and is also a very neat way of transferring money if one needs to relocate in a hurry.

Edited May 29, 2017 by ThailandLOS

[speedtripler]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does seem a bit late in the game. I remember hearing about bitcoin almost 20 years ago. Back then it was under one cent per coin. But, you had to have a great deal of skill to use the system, as there were no brokers like there are today. Many years later, it climbed to one dollar. And the brokers started to prop up. Now, that was a good time to get in. But now?

No, you didn't... 

The first bitcoin ever mined was about 8 years ago.... 

Misinformation is sky high on this thread, some people must be trolling bcoz some have gotten the facts  exactly backwards... 

[bangkokairportlink]

+1

Also interested to be billionaire quickly !

Thanks !

[Jingthing]

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

The idea in the OP of just putting ONE percent of your net worth in bitcoin for 5 or 10 years and holding it doesn't necessarily assume a great interest in bitcoin. 

ONE percent won't change people's quality of life.

It sounds like a proposal for a pure GAMBLING play. 

You could pick some random stock on the stock market and do the same thing.

In the case of a stock, I reckon the chances of the value going down to zero in 5 or 10 years are less than with bitcoin, but the OP article suggests the chances of a huge spike are much higher.

So isn't that really the question?

It's a given with a gamble like this that all of the money may be lost. 

Yes, tulip bulb bubble analogy fits here, but if you rode that and got out before the crash, then you liked tulip bulbs. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Jingthing

[lkn]

1 hour ago, ThailandLOS said:

[…] Most of the price increase/decrease is driven by people escaping/returning from/to paper money - and not investors […]

 

Crypto definitely has a place in every wealth management portfolio […]

I think we can agree that the concept of Bitcoin is very neat and definitely an innovation, in that we can keep a distributed digital ledger without worrying about fraud (only majority control), furthermore, we can also agree that money have no intrinsic value, even gold has no real intrinsic value (if you ask me).

 

However, notice that everybody who is pro-Bitcoin in this thread only talk about investing in the currency, buying and holding, etc.

 

Nobody is telling us what great new things they can do with their Bitcoin.

 

The only example of what it enables is a way around regimes that enforce currency control, but I am actually not sure that actually works that well. For example in Thailand, you cannot sell large quantities of Thai baht without documentation, so you would think that you can then just buy Bitcoin, but you’re just passing the buck to the Bitcoin broker, as say I buy Bitcoin for 1,000,000 baht, I give this to the Bitcoin broker, and he gives me Bitcoins in return.

 

Now, how will this Bitcoin broker exchange my 1,000,000 baht to say USD without documentation for source of income?

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

The idea in the OP of just putting ONE percent of your net worth in bitcoin for 5 or 10 years and holding it doesn't necessarily assume a great interest in bitcoin. 

ONE percent won't change people's quality of life.

It sounds like a proposal for a pure GAMBLING play. 

You could pick some random stock on the stock market and do the same thing.

In the case of a stock, I reckon the chances of the value going down to zero in 5 or 10 years are less than with bitcoin, but the OP article suggests the chances of a huge spike are much higher.

So isn't that really the question?

It's a given with a gamble like this that all of the money may be lost. 

Yes, tulip bulb bubble analogy fits here, but if you rode that and got out before the crash, then you liked tulip bulbs. 

 

Correct. That narrative worked five or six or seven or eight years ago. Anyone who had put even $1000 into bitcoin back then would be sitting on a fortune now. Where is it going to go from here? Most investors get on board when it is already too late.

[Jingthing]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

 

Correct. That narrative worked five or six or seven or eight years ago. Anyone who had put even $1000 into bitcoin back then would be sitting on a fortune now. Where is it going to go from here? Most investors get on board when it is already too late.

Yes, of course, but you're calling the top and you don't know the top. 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, of course, but you're calling the top and you don't know the top. 

 

I am not saying this is the top. I am only saying that as an investment vehicle, the potential is more than likely limited. Most investors get in when it is already very high. Few have the vision to see it early on. 

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The idea in the OP of just putting ONE percent of your net worth in bitcoin for 5 or 10 years and holding it doesn't necessarily assume a great interest in bitcoin. 

ONE percent won't change people's quality of life.

It sounds like a proposal for a pure GAMBLING play. 

 

Got it in one. By all means gamble a small proportion of your net worth on bitcoins or lottery tickets or slot machines or on red at the casino if you like. But dont call any of them an investment because they are not.

 

Bitcoin is nonsense and its only proponents are people who own them today and are keen to sell on to the bigger fool. Just like all the other "investment" scams in history. Bitcoin relies totally on the bigger fool for all its perceived value.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You could pick some random stock on the stock market and do the same thing.

 

Not really. When you buy a stock you buy something real. It may be a small percentage of a global corporation that makes and sells smartphones, it may be an oil company that owns massive oil reserves, it may be a chain of retail shops or a company that makes aircraft engines. All are tangible and actually produce something that someone wants to buy, though some may be overhyped. It may even be something more nebulous like a social media brand-name that hasnt turned a profit yet but may do so in the future. I personally I would avoid those latter ones for the same reason that I avoid bitcoin: I dont buy dreams and fairy-tales.

 

If you want to buy something as a possible investment and a hedge against Armageddon then probably best to buy gold as that at least is a tangible asset that people want to own and can use in industry. Though personally I wouldnt buy that either.

[chingching]

i got into btc fairly late,  when it was at the $560.00 level, managed to lose money for a while as it went down to $250.  but mainly i used it to tx money from the states to here.  bought it on coinbase, sent to local bit coins. With hindsight I can say I should have borrowed on every credit card and bought more and more, as paying 20% a year for something gaining 200-400% a year is still a money maker.  

Bitcoin is a gateway coin and will lead you down the road to the addictive altcoins.  I got a bunch of ethereum at 10 bucks each ( i was too preoccupied with local bit coins when they were 50 cents) . Got some digixdao for 15.00 now 85-90,  and a few dozen others.  I have bytecoin (now 400%)  dogecoin (250%)  PIVX (200%)  For sure I lost money on a bunch, but with hindsight i can say i would have made money on every one, except one, because I capitulated too early.  

Is it too late?  Some believe btc is only just starting and today is like early google or microsoft days.  Certainly there has been a lot of buying now from the Japanese and South Koreans,  ( the North Koreans are busy trying to steal them).  So one should not judge btc on what you read on a thailand forum.  Bitcoin is truly global.  I'm sure anyone living in Syria wishes he had them instead of gold bars,  and of course in Venezuela btc is very big.

There is a distinction to be made between btc and blockchain.  btc is a currency that runs on a blockchain.  Other coins have different blockchains.  Ethereum is probably the most popular of those.  Among those companies that have joined the Ethereum Ponzi Scheme are:

Microsoft, Intel,  Samsung, ( anyone know where to find a complete list of ethereum alliance members, I would like to see it?  )

Thank you,