British Citizenship. English Language Test.

[samsingsong]

We thought we were ready to apply for my wife's British Citizenship but have just learnt that she needs to take another English language test.

She passed a Cambridge ESOL CEFR B1 test for her UK Settlement Visa in 2011. She passed her Life in the UK test in 2012 and got ILR and a Residents Permit.

I was going to book an appointment with a local council Nationality Checking service. The lady asked some questions to make sure our application was ready. She said that my wife's ESOL test was no longer valid and she would have to take an IELTS test.

I'm sure my wife would fly through any English test now, BUT we have to wait a month for the next test day, it's over 100 miles round trip away, it costs £150, and my wife would have to take a day off work! So overall it's a bit of a setback.

 

Reading Citizenship Basics on here again I see 7by7 wrote:

 "One of the other requirements for naturalisation is that the applicant has demonstrated sufficient knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL). However, if the applicant has already done this to obtain ILR or ILE then they do not need to do so again for naturalisation".

(I knew I had read that somewhere before!)

I suppose the lady's advice was correct as she is trained by the Home Office to do the checking service. But maybe she is wrong? I have had duff info from UKBA years ago.

Can anyone confirm the situation please?
 

[bangkoktonni]

I'm sure the ESOL test is only valid for 2 years where as if you studied ESOL and got to level 3, you would get a certificate which is valid forever.

 

Are you sure the test taken in 2011 was ESOL and not Toiec? as i'm sure that was the requirement for a settlement visa as my wife did hers then.

 

She then came to the uk and as her level of English was good already and she only had to study at college for 2 months and was accredited with her level 3 cert. She then did ielts at uni but this was not acceptable for the citizenship but her level 3 esol certificate was hence the life long validity.

 

 

 

[7by7]

From Prove your knowledge of English for citizenship and settling: 3. Approved English language qualifications

Quote

If your qualification has run out

Some recognised test qualifications only last for 2 years. You can still use a B1 level qualification that you took more than 2 years ago in 2 situations.

Applying for citizenship

You can use a B1 level qualification that’s run out if you’re applying for citizenship and it was accepted when you settled in the UK.

It doesn’t matter if the B1 level test you took isn’t on the current list of recognised tests. You don’t need to take another test.

 

"Settled in the UK" means obtained ILR.

 

I'd go back to your local NCS and point them at the above!

Edited June 11, 2017 by 7by7

[samsingsong]

Fantastic! Thank you 7by7.

 

However, the lady at the NCS directed me to the Citizenship application form section ‘Knowledge of language/life in the UK’ on page 7 where it says

 “ Or

I met the knowledge of language and the life requirement to qualify for settlement on or after 28^th October 2013”

 

She said that the rules had changed and as my wife ESOL English test was done on 2011 it didn’t qualify. If done after 28 Oct 2013 it would have been OK.

 

Yet the rule you have highlighted is plain enough making no mention of this date.

 Is there any conflict of information here? It always makes my head spin reading the UKGOV immigration website!

 

If there is a conflict of advice here, which would take priority, the application form or the UKGOV website rules?

Many thanks again, very grateful for your help once again.

[7by7]

From page 13 of Booklet AN Naturalisation Booklet – The Requirements

Quote

If you met the requirement to have sufficient knowledge of language and life in the UK when you applied for settlement by having a B1 level test you do not have to demonstrate it again.  (People who applied for settlement on or after 28 October 2013 needed to have had a B1 level qualification.)

I have to admit that I thought, from memory, that the B1 speaking and listening requirement for ILR was brought in much earlier than that: but Changes to the Knowledge of language and life in the UK requirement for settlement and naturalisation

Quote

From 28 October 2013, there will be two parts to the Knowledge of Language and Life in the UK (KoLL) requirement, both of which must be met by all applicants for settlement and naturalisation unless the individual is exempt (exemption details below). 
 
From this date applicants will be required to:
 
• pass the Life in the UK test
 
AND
 
• have a speaking and listening qualification in English at B1 CEFR or higher, or an   equivalent level qualification.

 

The basic rule, on which my comment above, and the UKVI guidance, is based is that if a speaking and listening qualification has been used in a successful UK visa or LTR application it can be used again for the next one, including naturalisation, even if the certificate has expired and/or the test or provider is no longer on the approved list.

 

But, did your wife use her B1 for her ILR application? Yes, but at that time the requirement for ILR was A1.

 

So it seems the lady at your local NCS may very well be correct in that your wife did not have to use her B1 pass in order to obtain ILR because only A1 was required at the time, so she cannot use it for naturalisation.

 

It does seem perverse in the extreme that she cannot use her B1 pass again simply because it was a higher grade than that required at the time of her ILR application; but I'm afraid that seems to be the way it is!

[samsingsong]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

But, did your wife use her B1 for her ILR application? Yes, but at that time the requirement for ILR was A1.

 

So it seems the lady at your local NCS may very well be correct in that your wife did not have to use her B1 pass in order to obtain ILR because only A1 was required at the time, so she cannot use it for naturalisation.

 

It does seem perverse in the extreme that she cannot use her B1 pass again simply because it was a higher grade than that required at the time of her ILR application; but I'm afraid that seems to be the way it is!

 

Thank you 7b7, Yes, to have to take a test again because she is overqualified is perverse in the extreme. Almost as if our lot have been influenced by 'Thainess' . TIB / Amazing Britain etc.!

 

As you state above "The basic rule, on which my comment above, and the UKVI guidance, is based is that if a speaking and listening qualification has been used in a successful UK visa or LTR application it can be used again for the next one, including naturalisation, even if the certificate has expired and/or the test or provider is no longer on the approved list".

 

For her settlement visa she needed the English ESOL CEFR level B1 (which she achieved).

So as her English ESOL CEFR level B1 was used in a successful visa application can't it be used again for naturalisation?

 

(I'm trying to contact the NCS to put this to them, but they're very busy and hard to get through to.).

[samsingsong]

I've written an explanatory letter to the Nationality Checking Service and included prints of the relevant pages from the GOVUK website guidelines which ( to my interpretation) state that the test does not need to be taken again.

 

So I'll keep you posted when I get a reply..... If I get a reply!

Many thanks again.

[samsingsong]

Hi 7by7, I sent an email to UK Visas and Immigration yesterday and have a reply already!

Copied below:

UK Visas and Immigration <[email protected]>

 

Dear Mrs Sangsom, (not her real name!)   Thank you for your enquiry dated 15th june regarding English Language.  As this is stated on Booklet AN If you met the requirement to have sufficient knowledge of language and life in the UK when you applied for settlement by having a B1 level test you do not have to demonstrate it again. (People who applied for settlement on or after 28 October 2013 needed to have had a B1 level qualification.)  https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/618325/AN_Booklet_-_June_2017.pdf  If you didn't use this english Langauge certificate for your settlement application or if you applied before 28th October you would need to complete one of the approved tests https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-applying-for-uk-visa-approved-english-language-tests   Further information may be found here.   UKVI Contact Centre Website: www.gov.uk/home-office

 

 So.... I think this means my wife doesn't have to do an English test again because she DID use the English ESOL CEF B1 test pass for her Settlement Visa application. 

Am I right? Is there a way of interpreting this which means she should take another test? I say this as I phoned UK Visas and Immigration yesterday, explained it all to a very friendly Geordie bloke, directed him to this same info, but he said the NCS were correct - she did need to take another test!  My head is spinning!

Edited June 16, 2017 by samsingsong
format / spacing changed due to cut & paste

[7by7]

The problem is that your wife applied for, and was granted, her ILR in 2012; before the requirement was increased to B1 on 28th October 2013..

 

As the guidance I linked to earlier and the email your received, both say

3 hours ago, samsingsong said:

(People who applied for settlement on or after 28 October 2013 needed to have had a B1 level qualification.)

The email continues

3 hours ago, samsingsong said:

 If you didn't use this english Langauge certificate for your settlement application or if you applied before 28th October (2013) you would need to complete one of the approved tests

(7by7emphasis)

 So as your wife applied for, and was granted, her ILR in 2012 she cannot use that pass for citizenship; even though it is B1.

 

Seems daft, but I'm afraid that having looked into it more closely,  I agree with the NCS and the person you spoke to on the phone. She needs to take the test again.

[fbf]

Sorry if this is slightly off topic/a different situation, but does this have implications for using a B1 test pass to meet the new(ish) FLR A2 requirement?

 

In other words, does your advice discussed here still hold, or will they not allow use of the same B1 test result for ILR (assuming the requirement doesn't increase by then) because the B1 grade wasn't needed for the FLR application? 

Edited June 17, 2017 by fbf

[7by7]

I think the problems Mrs. Samsingsong is having are due to her taking the test before 28th October 2013, as the guidance for citizenship applications specifically states that only tests taken for ILR granted on or after that date are acceptable for a citizenship application.

 

As far as I am aware, there is no such restriction on tests for leave to remain applications.

[samsingsong]

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 7:00 PM, 7by7 said:

If you didn't use this english Langauge certificate for your settlement application or if you applied before 28th October (2013) you would need to complete one of the approved tests

(7by7emphasis)

Thanks 7by7. I think my brain has finally jumped out of the grove it was stuck in!

It's the 'if' / 'or' in the above statement I was stuck on. 

 There is so much contradictory information (as you have linked to previously) clearly stating that if a an English B1test was used for Settlement, then you don't have to take another test. e.g. "You can use a B1 level qualification that’s run out if you’re applying for citizenship and it was accepted when you settled in the UK. It doesn’t matter if the B1 level test you took isn’t on the current list of recognised tests. You don’t need to take another test."  No mention here about unless you applied before 28 Oct 2013.

If I was just going to apply by post (and hadn't tried to book an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service) I would have just sent it off after reading that statement. I suppose the application would have been refused and I'd have lost the fee!  

 

As daft as the whole thing is, I guess we just have to bite the bullet, fork out another £150 + +, and do the 100 mile round-trip to the nearest test centre!

Many thanks for your help and advice once again.