Protesters rally against Islamic law in dozens of U.S. cities

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

 I thought I read posts in other threads that showed areas of England that have Sharia law applied and even have some court system set up.. So most posts here about accepting the law of the country is crap posts

 That aside  as i read this thread I realize posters here know as much about sharia law  as they do Thailand  Which means most of then know f all Just talk about it to express a poorly informed opinion or have an emotional opinion.

There are private arbitration panels set up in UK and the US by various religions - Islam and Judaism being two. But participation in them is strictly voluntary. No one can be compelled to participate in them or accept their judgements.

[ncc1701d]

20 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Islam is long, long overdue some radical reforms.

Agreed. We can start with the "imaginary friend" part and reform from there. Same goes for all religions. 

[Briggsy]

20 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

Agreed. We can start with the "imaginary friend" part and reform from there. Same goes for all religions. 

I take your point but the most immediate threat is the justification of killing and cutting off of body parts for a variety of "offences".

 

I understand that the justification for these edicts or points of Sharia law are that they are the "Word of God" but let's deal with the immediate danger first.

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

There are private arbitration panels set up in UK and the US by various religions - Islam and Judaism being two. But participation in them is strictly voluntary. No one can be compelled to participate in them or accept their judgements.

But they are there right. So some in their community still wish to live by them right. There must be a support for it in the community for the courts to be needed so posts like the one below  by Trentham mean nothing. Just what should be not was is. The protesters deal with what is not in theories .

 SHARIA REQUIRES MUSLIMS TO LIVE BY THE LAW OF THE USA. and any other country in which they reside .

Edited June 12, 2017 by lovelomsak

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

But they are there right. So some in their community still wish to live by them right. There must be a support for it in the community for the courts to be needed so posts like the one below  by Trentham mean nothing. Just what should be not was is. The protesters deal with what is not in theories .

 SHARIA REQUIRES MUSLIMS TO LIVE BY THE LAW OF THE USA. and any other country in which they reside .

But those tribunals are operating within the law. There is nothing illegal about them. Any more than there is something illegal about agreements to submit to private arbitration in a dispute rather than go to court. If you own a credit card in the USA you have agreed to this. Does that mean that most Americans don't accept the rule of law?

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, nasanews said:

I am still trying to figure out how Sharia Law does not treat women equally, I will appreciate it if you enlighten me how?

then we can talk about the rest. over.

https://counterjihad.com/women

 

 

[nasanews]

4 hours ago, Caps said:

That would depend on what kind of civilisation you come from, whether you are from a western type democratic country where women are supposed to be equal.  Or whether you are from a still in the dark ages country and don't really value women at all.  Long gone are the days in normal society where men are supposed to put food on the table and the women stay in the house.

Yes women should stay at the house to take care of the kids, even women in Germany have said it "screw the way western civilization treat women like men equally" and demand from their future partners in advance that they will remain at house to take care of children.

[nasanews]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

https://counterjihad.com/women

 

 

The link name says it all counter jihad and why would the author of the book call Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization !?

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, nasanews said:

The link name says it all counter jihad and why would the author of the book call Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization !?

Are the facts given correct or not?

The Muslim Brotherhood were/ are a terrorist organization. They kill Christians.

[nasanews]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are the facts given correct or not?

The Muslim Brotherhood were/ are a terrorist organization. They kill Christians.

When we say women should stay at home and take care of children we are not degrading women! on the contrary we demand women to stay home and take care of kids so we have good society individuals in the future.  A woman is a school.

Edited June 12, 2017 by nasanews

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Caps said:

There should be no Sharia Law in any Western Country, no ifs, no buts.  The only Law should be the Law of the country you are in.  If you don't like it and want Sharia Law then by all means sling your hook to some Islamicstan country and have it, and while your at it take some of these tree huggers and lets love a muslim/islamist groups with you so they can try and set up their western laws in your country.....but that would never happen....whys is that I wonder?

 

I know a lot of muslims/islamists are now bred locally and not imported anymore but all those who do come and claim persecution etc and seek to live in a normal western country where they have rights etc...why would you then want to change it to be like the country you just left????  

"There should be no Sharia Law in any Western Country, no ifs, no buts."

 

I would argue that there should be no religious law anywhere, all law should be secular.  But that unreasonably broadens this topic.

 

The key point here is that there is absolutely no risk of Sharia law becoming US law.  So what are the protesters going  on about?

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

But those tribunals are operating within the law. There is nothing illegal about them. Any more than there is something illegal about agreements to submit to private arbitration in a dispute rather than go to court. If you own a credit card in the USA you have agreed to this. Does that mean that most Americans don't accept the rule of law?

If they are legal they are legal I didnot question legality I simply showed that the Sharia law that these protesters do not want in their conutry is there and applied in their communities. They have a valid protest. So they are not wrong Sharia Law is there veiled under tribunal law.  So it is  in America.   What they seem to want is to not let it be there.

 Oh and credit cards a legal contract nothing to do with tribunals. I whole different ballpark.

Edited June 12, 2017 by lovelomsak

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, lovelomsak said:

If they are legal they are legal I didnot question legality I simply showed that the Sharia law that these protesters do not want in their conutry is there and applied in their communities. They have a valid protest. So they are not wrong Sharia Law is there veiled under tribunal law.  So it is America.   What they seem to want is to not let it be there.

But what those protesters want runs counter to the Constitution. Which makes them bad Americans.

[lovelomsak]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

But what those protesters want runs counter to the Constitution. Which makes them bad Americans.

Wow are you ever stretching it there. They are just expressing their views. Which is still allowed.

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

If they are legal they are legal I didnot question legality I simply showed that the Sharia law that these protesters do not want in their conutry is there and applied in their communities. They have a valid protest. So they are not wrong Sharia Law is there veiled under tribunal law.  So it is  in America.   What they seem to want is to not let it be there.

 Oh and credit cards a legal contract nothing to do with tribunals. I whole different ballpark.

Tribunals and "laws" that are voluntary are not laws, they are guidance.  Do you object to other religions providing guidance to how their followers should behave?

[spidermike007]

I am a moderate minded individual, who has long argued that most Muslims are moderate minded also, and do not support the extremist idiots. But, the time has come for the Muslim community to stand up, denounce the imbeciles amongst them, and make it loud and clear that they do not support them, nor their ridiculous ideologies of hatred, extremism, racism, bigotry, murder, rape, mayhem, kidnapping, forced marriage, anarchy and chaos.

 

Saudi Arabia, which is one of the few nations that practice Sharia law, also happens to be one of the world's biggest sponsors or terror. Any coincidence? They have contributed well in excess of $100 billion, in an effort to boost Wahhabism, grow the Madrasas throughout the Middle East, who's primary goal is the training of boys and girls, in the wreaking of havoc upon the world, in the quest of their absolutely fanatical, and maniacal sect of Islamic religion. Any chance they are behind this Sharia movement in the US?

 

While the Saudis and the Pakistanis remain allies of the US, the reality is that I consider them both to be enemy number one, and two, on the planet. With N. Korea and Iran possibly just behind them, in terms of being troublemakers. One can only hope Trump will take a tougher line with them, then the sycophantic presidents of the recent past. His recent visit to Saudi Arabia means that he is probably not going to choose a wise path, in this regard. No surprised there.

 

The Saudi government has been the principal financial backer of Afghanistan’ s odious Taliban movement since at least 1996. It has also channeled funds to Hamas and other groups that have committed terrorist acts in Israel and other portions of the Middle East. Worst of all, the Saudi monarchy has funded dubious schools and “charities” throughout the Islamic world. Those organizations have been hotbeds of anti-Western, and especially, anti-American, indoctrination. The schools, for example, not only indoctrinate students in a virulent and extreme form of Islam, but also teach them to hate secular Western values.

 

Pakistan’s guilt is nearly as great as Saudi Arabia’s. Without the active support of the government in Islamabad, it is doubtful whether the Taliban could ever have come to power in Afghanistan. Pakistani authorities helped fund the militia and equip it with military hardware during the mid-1990s when the Taliban was merely one of several competing factions in Afghanistan’s civil war. Only when the United States exerted enormous diplomatic pressure after the Sept. 11 attacks did Islamabad begin to sever its political and financial ties with the Taliban. Even now it is not certain that key members of Pakistan’s intelligence service have repudiated their Taliban clients.

 

Sharia law is to be resisted with every nanogram of strength within our bodies. It is a 1400 year old ideal, largely based on religion, but it has been converted more recently into an interpretation based on ignorance, hatred, intolerance, and bigotry. No legal system should have as it's basis, a religious doctrine, much less a doctrine of extremism, and lack of tolerance. It is based upon interpretations of men with no understanding, or realization, and no connection to truth, or real justice. Is it reasonable to imprison, or put to death, a person who has had a heartfelt desire to change his faith? Only a faith run by people with little understanding, compassion, or comfort within their own skin, would prohibit conversion. It is deplorable. It has no place within the US or Europe. Let the Saudis and the Sumatrans suffer under it's primeival yoke. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by spidermike007

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Tribunals and "laws" that are voluntary are not laws, they are guidance.  Do you object to other religions providing guidance to how their followers should behave?

 

It would be ok, if it were only guidance. But, when someone is put to death for converting to another religion or faith, that shows you what we are really dealing with. Insecurity. True Sharia is not guidance. It is law. It is a super rigid set of laws, that compel the members of the Muslim faith to act according to the beliefs of a group of men who lack understanding or any sort of comprehension of truth. It is a manifestation of an extreme lack of comfort within one's own skin. What causes a tribunal to rule in this fashion? Think about it. Forget about political correctness. Let us call it as we see it. 

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I am a moderate minded individual, who has long argued that most Muslims are moderate minded also, and do not support the extremist idiots. But, the time has come for the Muslim community to stand up, denounce the imbeciles amongst them, and make it loud and clear that they do not support them, nor their ridiculous ideologies of hatred, extremism, racism, bigotry, murder, rape, mayhem, kidnapping, forced marriage, anarchy and chaos.

 

Saudi Arabia, which is one of the few nations that practice Sharia law, also happens to be one of the world's biggest sponsors or terror. Any coincidence? They have contributed well in excess of $100 billion, in an effort to boost Wahhabism, grow the Madrasas throughout the Middle East, who's primary goal is the training of boys and girls, in the wreaking of havoc upon the world, in the quest of their absolutely fanatical, and maniacal sect of Islamic religion. Any chance they are behind this Sharia movement in the US?

 

While the Saudis and the Pakistanis remain allies of the US, the reality is that I consider them both to be enemy number one, and two, on the planet. With N. Korea and Iran possibly just behind them, in terms of being troublemakers. One can only hope Trump will take a tougher line with them, then the sycophantic presidents of the recent past. His recent visit to Saudi Arabia means that he is probably not going to choose a wise path, in this regard. No surprised there.

 

The Saudi government has been the principal financial backer of Afghanistan’ s odious Taliban movement since at least 1996. It has also channeled funds to Hamas and other groups that have committed terrorist acts in Israel and other portions of the Middle East. Worst of all, the Saudi monarchy has funded dubious schools and “charities” throughout the Islamic world. Those organizations have been hotbeds of anti-Western, and especially, anti-American, indoctrination. The schools, for example, not only indoctrinate students in a virulent and extreme form of Islam, but also teach them to hate secular Western values.

 

Pakistan’s guilt is nearly as great as Saudi Arabia’s. Without the active support of the government in Islamabad, it is doubtful whether the Taliban could ever have come to power in Afghanistan. Pakistani authorities helped fund the militia and equip it with military hardware during the mid-1990s when the Taliban was merely one of several competing factions in Afghanistan’s civil war. Only when the United States exerted enormous diplomatic pressure after the Sept. 11 attacks did Islamabad begin to sever its political and financial ties with the Taliban. Even now it is not certain that key members of Pakistan’s intelligence service have repudiated their Taliban clients.

 

Sharia law is to be resisted with every nanogram of strength within our bodies. It is a 1400 year old ideal, largely based on religion, but it has been converted more recently into an interpretation based on ignorance, hatred, intolerance, and bigotry. No legal system should have as it's basis, a religious doctrine, much less a doctrine of extremism, and lack of tolerance. It is based upon interpretations of men with no understanding, or realization, and no connection to truth, or real justice. Is it reasonable to imprison, or put to death, a person who has had a heartfelt desire to change his faith? Only a faith run by people with little understanding, compassion, or comfort within their own skin, would prohibit conversion. It is deplorable. It has no place within the US or Europe. Let the Saudis and the Sumatrans suffer under it's primeival yoke. 

You're underlining exactly what I'm saying, your first 5paragraphs are about islam, not about sharia. Just as this protest was about islam, not about sharia.

 

Regarding your first paragraph, the muslim community has done that time and time again.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It would be ok, if it were only guidance. But, when someone is put to death for converting to another religion or faith, that shows you what we are really dealing with. Insecurity. True Sharia is not guidance. It is law. It is a super rigid set of laws, that compel the members of the Muslim faith to act according to the beliefs of a group of men who lack understanding or any sort of comprehension of truth. It is a manifestation of an extreme lack of comfort within one's own skin. What causes a tribunal to rule in this fashion? Think about it. Forget about political correctness. Let us call it as we see it. 

We are talking about sharia in western countries here.

 

If you want to forget about political correctness you have to be honest and address these demonstrations for what they are: against islam, not against sharia.

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It would be ok, if it were only guidance. But, when someone is put to death for converting to another religion or faith, that shows you what we are really dealing with. Insecurity. True Sharia is not guidance. It is law. It is a super rigid set of laws, that compel the members of the Muslim faith to act according to the beliefs of a group of men who lack understanding or any sort of comprehension of truth. It is a manifestation of an extreme lack of comfort within one's own skin. What causes a tribunal to rule in this fashion? Think about it. Forget about political correctness. Let us call it as we see it. 

In countries where these things are happening it is wrong and should be changed.  However these things aren't happening in the US, they are clearly against US law, and they will always be against US law.  So why are these people protesting? 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

In countries where these things are happening it is wrong and should be changed.  However these things aren't happening in the US, they are clearly against US law, and they will always be against US law.  So why are these people protesting? 

Why?

I suppose brainwashed by right wing Islamophobic hate propaganda pushing boogeymen threats that don't exist.

As said before, many of  those same people are likely in the demographic that it is about to be actually directly threatened by their own president pulling their health care. To pay for tax cuts for the massively wealthy.

Sad. 

[spidermike007]

39 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You're underlining exactly what I'm saying, your first 5paragraphs are about islam, not about sharia. Just as this protest was about islam, not about sharia.

 

Regarding your first paragraph, the muslim community has done that time and time again.

 

I know alot of peaceful, moderate minded people, who are not racist at all. Yet, they are slowly developing a hatred for all things Muslim, due to the fact that they rarely ever hear Muslim people speaking out, against the nut jobs. King Abdullah is courageous, and he is speaking out. But, what other leaders of Muslim nations are doing so? How many of the Imans, and the local community leaders, are organizing anti extremist rallies throughout the US and the Middle East? It is a voice that needs to be heard. I realize the media has little interest in reporting this angle. But, if there was enough noise, it would be heard. It is incumbent on the followers of this faith to speak out, loudly, clearly, honestly and vociferously. The alternative, if this does not start happening, is very scary. 

[anon4546543]

11 hours ago, nasanews said:

In that case may I ask you who's job is it to put food on the table?

Not sure if you are trying to to be ironic or misogynist. Either way it is a foolish comment to make about women in non Islamic countries.

Many western women are also bread winners, they do not need a bag over their head, are allowed to drive 

their own car, be unescorted by male relatives, make their own decisions, take out bank loans and not have to

bang their head on the floor or constantly nod and chant every few hours. 

[nasanews]

6 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Not sure if you are trying to to be ironic or misogynist. Either way it is a foolish comment to make about women in non Islamic countries.

Many western women are also bread winners, they do not need a bag over their head, are allowed to drive 

their own car, be unescorted by male relatives, make their own decisions, take out bank loans and not have to

bang their head on the floor or constantly nod and chant every few hours. 

According to U.S. Census Bureau, out of about 12 million single parent families in 2016, more than 80% were headed by single mothers. Today 1 in 4 children under the age of 18 — a total of about 17.2 million — are being raised without a father and almost half 40% live below the poverty line.

 

My question to you is that good for the American society and future generations?

[anon4546543]

1 minute ago, nasanews said:

According to U.S. Census Bureau, out of about 12 million single parent families in 2016, more than 80% were headed by single mothers. Today 1 in 4 children under the age of 18 — a total of about 17.2 million — are being raised without a father and almost half 40% live below the poverty line.

 

My question to you is that good for the American society and future generations?

I am not responsible for the lifestyle changes of young women who allow intercourse without a condom or do not know about family planning.

I am not responsible for laws which allow young men to impregnate women and take no responsibility.

What has that to do with Moslim women being regarded by their husbands or families as only being good for putting food on the table as you suggested.

In Islam countries, all people are created equal but men are more equal than women. (Sorry to Animal Farm.)  

[simple1]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I know alot of peaceful, moderate minded people, who are not racist at all. Yet, they are slowly developing a hatred for all things Muslim, due to the fact that they rarely ever hear Muslim people speaking out, against the nut jobs. King Abdullah is courageous, and he is speaking out. But, what other leaders of Muslim nations are doing so? How many of the Imans, and the local community leaders, are organizing anti extremist rallies throughout the US and the Middle East? It is a voice that needs to be heard. I realize the media has little interest in reporting this angle. But, if there was enough noise, it would be heard. It is incumbent on the followers of this faith to speak out, loudly, clearly, honestly and vociferously. The alternative, if this does not start happening, is very scary. 

The general public generally don't know about Muslims speaking out against Islamists for  the reason you identified, under reporting by media, as well as drowned out by the right of centre. e.g. do you personally know that 70,000 Indian Muslim clerics spoke out against Islamists or on a much smaller scale Muslims in Sydney have for years provided charity services for non Muslim homeless? Whereas just one Muslim / refugee commits a criminal offence (not talking about terrorism) it gets coverage.

 

On this forum examples have been provided of Muslim representatives speaking out, including leaders from Malaysia, Egypt and Indonesia, yet the same complaints of no voices raised again and again and again; alternatively reports dismissed as insincere, false, deceitful, posters personally attacked as 'apologists' etc etc 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/70000-indian-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaida-and-other-terror-groups-a6768191.html

 

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by simple1

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

The general public generally don't know about Muslims speaking out against Islamists for  the reason you identified, under reporting by media, as well as drowned out by the right of centre. e.g. do you personally know that 70,000 Indian Muslim clerics spoke out against Islamists or on a much smaller scale Muslims in Sydney have for years provided charity services for non Muslim homeless? Whereas just one Muslim / refugee commits a criminal offence (not talking about terrorism) it gets coverage.

 

On this forum examples have been provided of Muslim representatives speaking out, including leaders from Malaysia, Egypt and Indonesia, yet the same complaints of no voices raised again and again and again; alternatively reports dismissed as insincere, false, deceitful, posters personally attacked as 'apologists' etc etc 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/70000-indian-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaida-and-other-terror-groups-a6768191.html

 

 

Are those Indian clerics Sunni or Shia? In any case, Islam is a minority religion in India. Any news from the Pakistani clerics?

 

The point that people are making is that the 'speaking out', by any objective measure, is not nearly enough. People want to see an massive tidal wave of speaking out such that it becomes an unstoppable global phenomenon and leaves no room for any suspicion that fundamentalism receives tacit support from within Islam. A few examples here and there don't cut it.

Edited June 12, 2017 by ddavidovsky

[Thakkar]

6 hours ago, nasanews said:

Yes women should stay at the house to take care of the kids, even women in Germany have said it "screw the way western civilization treat women like men equally" and demand from their future partners in advance that they will remain at house to take care of children.

I realize this is off topic, but I think people who post as above and parents who want their daughters to be strong, independent, assured women should read the following. It is interesting perspective from a woman and an immigrant encompassing vastly different experiences in four western countries:

 

In the Czech Republic, the nicknames for women, whether sweet or bitter, fall into the animal category: little bug, kitten, old cow, swine. In Sweden, women are rulers of the universe. In France, women are dangerous objects to treasure and fear. For better or worse, in those countries, a woman knows her place.

 

But the American woman is told she can do anything and then is knocked down the moment she proves it. 

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/opinion/sunday/paulina-porizkova-america-feminist.html

[YetAnother]

the logic is all here in previous postings; ban them, resist them, deport them, fight them (which is what it will come down to)

[Thakkar]

35 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

the logic is all here in previous postings; ban them, resist them, deport them, fight them (which is what it will come down to)

For ISIS and their evil ilk, the beauty of people like you is that they don't have to pay you or train you. Of your own volition, you help them spread the hate they want to spread.

 

Why do you willingly help these vile extremists?