Work permits. Stricter penalties for non compliance

[Lovethailandelite]

On 22 of June 2017, an Emergency Decree had been issued. Main topics are as follows:

1. If an employer employs a foreigner to work at a foreigner forbidden position, such employer is fined with 400,000-800,000 Baht per employed foreigner.
2. If an employer allows a foreigner to work in excess of the work stipulated into the work permit he is fined with not more than 400,000 Baht per 1 employed foreigner.
3. If a foreigner works without having a work permit or work at a foreigner forbidden position, he/she is imprisoned not more than 5 years, fined with 2,000-100,000 Baht or both.
4. If a foreigner works on an urgent and essential nature work without acknowledgement of the officer (form WP-10), he is fined with not more than 100,000 Baht.
5. If a foreigner works in excess of the work as described in the work permit, he/she is imprisoned not more than 6 months, fined with not more than 100,000 Baht or both.
6. If a person deceives that he/she can bring a foreigner to work with a domestic employer without a work permit, he/she is imprisoned 3-10 years, fined 600,000-1,000,000 Baht, or both.
7. Any person operating as a foreigner job agency without a license, he/she is imprisoned for 1-3 years, fined 200,000-600,000 Baht, or both.
   
   
   https://pugnatorius.com/breaking-news/

Edited June 26, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[Rhys]

.....and the justification?

 

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, Rhys said:

.....and the justification?

 

 

I should think that the Alien Working Act B.E.2551 (2008) is the justification for this decree.

[richard_smith237]

Those using foreign Maids & Nanny's from agencies now face some risk. 

 

The Maids and Nanny's are usually resisted and work permitted through an agency but in a different area from the home they work in and commonly under a different profession such as factory worker. This opens up a large can of worms for many who rely on such agencies. 

[AGareth2]

How will this affect teachers?

[Get Real]

6 hours ago, Rhys said:

.....and the justification?

 

Just play by the rules. Then nothing to worry about. 

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, Rhys said:

.....and the justification?

 

if you do things which are not allowed, you get punished.

if people think it is still worth the risk, you upgrade the punishment. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

How will this affect teachers?

No work permit, you could be in trouble just as before.

It could affect people who are recruiting teachers, who don't have the paperwork to support this. 

[ubonjoe]

Other than 1, 5, 6 and 7 all the fines and penalties are listed in chapter 6 of the Alien Working Act. (download  Alien Working Act 2551 en - ThaiLaws.pdf ).

It appears the changes are directed at employment of migrant workers.

[terminatorchiangmai]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those using foreign Maids & Nanny's from agencies now face some risk. 

 

The Maids and Nanny's are usually resisted and work permitted through an agency but in a different area from the home they work in and commonly under a different profession such as factory worker. This opens up a large can of worms for many who rely on such agencies. 

1. If a person deceives that he/she can bring a foreigner to work with a domestic employer without a work permit, he/she is imprisoned 3-10 years, fined 600,000-1,000,000 Baht, or both.

Any person operating as a foreigner job agency without a license, he/she is imprisoned for 1-3 years, fined 200,000-600,000 Baht, or both.

 

Look like its more the risk of the agency.

We have a cleaner come every week from an agency.

Its not everytime the same person , so should we ask to see their work permit even when we are not home ?

 

 

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

We have a cleaner come every week from an agency.

Its not everytime the same person , so should we ask to see their work permit even when we are not home ?

 

No, you shouldn´t. The cleaner works for an agency, that you contact for the need of a service. It´s only up to the agency to show WP for their employees. You are just paying for a service, and not the one employing the person doing the work.

[FritsSikkink]

26 minutes ago, Get Real said:

No, you shouldn´t. The cleaner works for an agency, that you contact for the need of a service. It´s only up to the agency to show WP for their employees. You are just paying for a service, and not the one employing the person doing the work.

Second that

[NoshowJones]

More rules that will mean nothing.

[LazySlipper]

6 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

How will this affect teachers?

Most schools hire teachers and process work permits 3 months after said teacher starts to work... i.e. the teacher must pass probation first...

 

During those 3 months you, the teacher, are at risk. Have I ever heard of anything happening to someone?

 

Not in 14 years of working here.

[masuk]

11 hours ago, Rhys said:

.....and the justification?

 

"emergency"??      what?  where?

[williamgeorgeallen]

58 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

More rules that will mean nothing.

you are right. i am associated with a franchise that has to hire foreigners as we simply cant get thai workers, not for lack of trying. typically we need workers for 4 months a year but to get a work permit is incredibly expensive and takes a long time. there is simply no way to do it. on the spot fines are generally issued from 5000thb to 30 000thb. i am the only one out of dozens of workers who has been to court for not having a work permit (even though i did have one but it had the wrong address in it) the fine for no work permit was 8500thb and 1 year suspended jail sentence. as you say it all means nothing and they will continue to issue on the spot fines.

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, masuk said:

"emergency"??      what?  where?

I suspect emergency could be a translation error when the decree was translated from Thai.

Urgent would probably of been closer to being correct.

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

1. If a person deceives that he/she can bring a foreigner to work with a domestic employer without a work permit, he/she is imprisoned 3-10 years, fined 600,000-1,000,000 Baht, or both.

Any person operating as a foreigner job agency without a license, he/she is imprisoned for 1-3 years, fined 200,000-600,000 Baht, or both.

 

Look like its more the risk of the agency.

We have a cleaner come every week from an agency.

Its not everytime the same person , so should we ask to see their work permit even when we are not home ?

 

 

 

Our Son's Nanny (Burmese) lives with us. We can't find a decent Thai lady to do the job, they want to charge the earth and are unreliable. This Burmese lady is fantastic, works hard, we treat her well, she is part of the family. BUT, she is from an agency who is registered in a different municipality. 

 

Both she and the agents are breaking the law, we know this, but there is no way around this. We would have to get her placed on the House Book (a Condo we are moving out of in 2 months) and then move her into our new accommodation (rented) and attempt to place her on the house book. We would then have to go through the process of registering her at that Address, but that only works if the Address is allocated a quota (i.e. having a child or person older than 70) if registering a nanny. The process is extremely long winded and prohibitive. 

 

The only real solution - Take a chance with Thai Nanny's again, or take a chance in our nanny not getting caught. 

[saakura]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Our Son's Nanny (Burmese) lives with us. We can't find a decent Thai lady to do the job, they want to charge the earth and are unreliable. This Burmese lady is fantastic, works hard, we treat her well, she is part of the family. BUT, she is from an agency who is registered in a different municipality. 

 

Both she and the agents are breaking the law, we know this, but there is no way around this. We would have to get her placed on the House Book (a Condo we are moving out of in 2 months) and then move her into our new accommodation (rented) and attempt to place her on the house book. We would then have to go through the process of registering her at that Address, but that only works if the Address is allocated a quota (i.e. having a child or person older than 70) if registering a nanny. The process is extremely long winded and prohibitive. 

 

The only real solution - Take a chance with Thai Nanny's again, or take a chance in our nanny not getting caught. 

My advise : as a foreigner, it is always prudent to keep on the right side of the law. Even if it is cumbersome. Like getting a quota and registering the foreign maid at the correct address.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, saakura said:

My advise : as a foreigner, it is always prudent to keep on the right side of the law. Even if it is cumbersome. Like getting a quota and registering the foreign maid at the correct address.

 

I agree... But in this case registering a Burmese Nanny at our rented address becomes a near impossibility, the law in this case is not just cumbersome, it is unworkable. It is also something which cannot be done until the labour department opens up applications for foreign labourers, at the moment there is no sign of when they may do this (usually its just for a couple of weeks per year).

 

The only real solution is to let the Nanny go and employ a Thai lady.

 

[spermwhale]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

More rules that will mean nothing.

Maybe not to you, but the police are doing raids as we speak and hauling out immigrants to detention according to Thai news 

[tryasimight]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Our Son's Nanny (Burmese) lives with us. We can't find a decent Thai lady to do the job, they want to charge the earth and are unreliable. This Burmese lady is fantastic, works hard, we treat her well, she is part of the family. BUT, she is from an agency who is registered in a different municipality. 

 

Both she and the agents are breaking the law, we know this, but there is no way around this. We would have to get her placed on the House Book (a Condo we are moving out of in 2 months) and then move her into our new accommodation (rented) and attempt to place her on the house book. We would then have to go through the process of registering her at that Address, but that only works if the Address is allocated a quota (i.e. having a child or person older than 70) if registering a nanny. The process is extremely long winded and prohibitive. 

 

The only real solution - Take a chance with Thai Nanny's again, or take a chance in our nanny not getting caught. 

Another solution......look after your own kid!!

At least he/she will be able to talk your native language eventually.

First world problems......

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[YetAnother]

11 hours ago, Maestro said:

I should think that the Alien Working Act B.E.2551 (2008) is the justification for this decree.

perhaps; however the underlying 'logic' is socially based; namely insecured racism

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, spermwhale said:

Maybe not to you, but the police are doing raids as we speak and hauling out immigrants to detention according to Thai news 

If that is true, then I am glad to hear it, but as usual it will probably be a 24 hour crackdown.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

Another solution......look after your own kid!!

At least he/she will be able to talk your native language eventually.

First world problems......

 

My son won't be able to speak English because he has a Nanny ???....   erm... how did you jump to that conclusion ?

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

If that is true, then I am glad to hear it, but as usual it will probably be a 24 hour crackdown.

I too have seen images of hoards of Labourer's rounded up like cattle... 

 

It is quite shocking the level of disregard people here have for their neighbors whom they seem to believe are sub-human. 

 

When looking at these fines and drawing a comparison with the penalties for violent crime there seems to be a huge discrepancy.

 

Thailand 'could' make the labour laws for people from ASEAN countries much much easier if it wishes to or cares enough to do something about this issue other than provide increased fines and staggering levels of bureaucracy. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by richard_smith237

[tryasimight]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

My son won't be able to speak English because he has a Nanny ???....   erm... how did you jump to that conclusion ?

Based on my observations of my 3 year old nephew being brought up/raised by a Philipino maid in Hong Kong when my brother and his wife were simply too busy and important to be bothered by trivial items like that. 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, tryasimight said:

Based on my observations of my 3 year old nephew being brought up/raised by a Philipino maid in Hong Kong when my brother and his wife were simply too busy and important to be bothered by trivial items like that. 

There's nothing like projection your own experiences on others... 

 

Your nephew is 3, his language skills are still developing its a bit early and unfair to judge him. 

 

 

 

 

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

There's nothing like projection your own experiences on others... 

 

Your nephew is 3, his language skills are still developing its a bit early and unfair to judge him. 

 

 

 

 

My Nephew is 36.