Thailand to get tough on foreigners working without work permits, employers also targeted

[Happyman58]

18 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Most of the teachers I work with, admittedly in Bangkok, are earning at least 65,000 a month. 

Not the teachers In Ubon Thai teachers 15,000 Baht per Month  Farang Teachers 33,000 Baht per month why cant they pay the Thai teachers more? I told my Thai teacher friend Go to bangkok they pay Farang teachers more there so 65,000 is pretty good

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Sure, some teachers make less.  I just wanted to dispell the myth that all teachers are low paid.  I work for a "boutique" school in central Bangkok, mainly focusing on IELTS/TOEFL/TOEIC/SAT/IGCSE exam preparation, and corporate work.  The starting salary for new (but experienced and qualified) teachers is 65,000 a month.  I earn significantly more than that, but I've worked there nearly 10 years.  Add in overtime, private classes and IELTS examining, many teachers can make 100,000 a month.  I don't think my school is unique!

If I were to make a statistic graph I am sure there would be far more below the 65k then above. I do believe you are right but on average I think they make less. But they might not have the right qualifications and skills. If your really good at your job and you shop around you can get better pay.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

As i have said 50 times I am all in favour of Thais getting a job Its there country In fact we have a vacancy now for a waitress  We want to employ Thai people Money is great and work is not hard Plus they can eat as much as they want we have had the sign hanging outside the shop window for 2 months Number of applicants NONE I have a guy who is a waiter there 500 baht plus tips he gets every night 9 hours work but when not busy he just relaxes  My wife is  not a tough boss Have you got any suggestions how the make the Thais work I still believe they would sooner starve then work So bring on the Thai workers we want them

Still they will see what you are talking about as taking jobs from Thais, different from a digital nomad who really only works  with people outside of Thailand. But I do get it I hear a lot about that its hard to get people. (500bt does not sound like a lot for someone who can speak English, maybe increase your price)

[YetAnother]

thailand should be going the opposite direction: letting as many foreigners and expats works as much as they like

[LannaGuy]

As I reported in another thread Thais get a 'bounty' of 25% of the fine for reporting illegal workers now

[Happyman58]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Still they will see what you are talking about as taking jobs from Thais, different from a digital nomad who really only works  with people outside of Thailand. But I do get it I hear a lot about that its hard to get people. (500bt does not sound like a lot for someone who can speak English, maybe increase your price)

No he cant speak English He works as a waiter Takes orders and serves  Thats it we have other people who clean tables wash up set up shop He does mighty fine We want to employ Thais But its the Thais who dont want employment Ok sad thing i watch every day  i see this Lady across the Road walk past every day she be in her 30s Very attractive  You know what she she does? She is looking in Bins for plastic bottles and food If she lifted her head saw the sign why dont she Apply? Never understand why wont they apply

[Happyman58]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

As I reported in another thread Thais get a 'bounty' of 25% of the fine for reporting illegal workers now

God it like loading a six gun  Is that for real My god I am horrified

[wow64]

 

2 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

As I reported in another thread Thais get a 'bounty' of 25% of the fine for reporting illegal workers now

 

Well they know how to get results.. They get money for reporting illegal workers.. they will be reporting themselves to get the money. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Happyman58 said:

No he cant speak English He works as a waiter Takes orders and serves  Thats it we have other people who clean tables wash up set up shop He does mighty fine We want to employ Thais But its the Thais who dont want employment Ok sad thing i watch every day  i see this Lady across the Road walk past every day she be in her 30s Very attractive  You know what she she does? She is looking in Bins for plastic bottles and food If she lifted her head saw the sign why dont she Apply? Never understand why wont they apply

Ok thought it might be in a bar catering to foreigners.. then I find 13.000 not a lot (still 13.000 is not a lot 500*6*52/12). Maybe I am used to people making more. I have no Idea why people don't apply I never tried (or want to) operate a bar. Not my thing. 

[Happyman58]

10 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

thailand should be going the opposite direction: letting as many foreigners and expats works as much as they like

Sad what u are saying is right because the Thais wont work That is the problem They wont work Hammocks would be one of the biggest sellers in Thailand

[Happyman58]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Ok thought it might be in a bar catering to foreigners.. then I find 13.000 not a lot (still 13.000 is not a lot 500*6*52/12). Maybe I am used to people making more. I have no Idea why people don't apply I never tried (or want to) operate a bar. Not my thing. 

i have been to many countries  I have never seen anything like this  But the amazing thing is They seem  to survive not working

[Happyman58]

4 minutes ago, wow64 said:

 

 

Well they know how to get results.. They get money for reporting illegal workers.. they will be reporting themselves to get the money. 

Oh no not that corruption setting in again lol

[Rv Hawee]

 

On 27/06/2017 at 9:15 PM, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Do they arrange for work permits for the  external teachers/lecturers?    

Usually, the external lecturers (invited/special lecturers) are regulars from other Uni a

Edited July 2, 2017 by Rv Hawee
keeyboard trouble

[Rv Hawee]

Dam keyborad !!!!

 The external lecturers are called "special teacher" and they come from  most of the time from other Uni where they work regulary and have already a WP.

 

The minimum wages requirement is different from company and teaching institution. With a bachelor, in governement institutions, it's a starting 25000 (28???)/month and maybe with some extra (ex. = extra hours teaching, other faculty teaching -  organizing private lessons for students, pupils or even some  company staff).

 

Usually, they not  busy you with your extra earning but officially we should tell the tax department and it should be taxed at 10% (like the yearly bonus).

[LivinLOS]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:32 AM, DLock said:

These arguments are just stupid.

 

If a DM or anyone thinks they can get away with not having a WP...why do you care so much? Let the cards fall how they fall.

 

There are thousands of DM's in Thailand. The chances of getting "caught" and prosecuted is so low, it's a rounding error.

 

No one argues that technically a DM should have a WP,  but equally, there can be little argument that they will ever get "caught". 

 

Live and let live...

The question is not 'getting away with it'.. I would say with absolute conviction that getting away with it is not an issue.. Same as so many other laws here.. 

 

The issue is those claiming not to be getting away with it, but claiming it is legal, when the labour department have been very clear when asked what is and isnt legal. Many Many DMs do claim it is legal, posters in this very thread. 

 

Its simple, the labour department claim to investigate all reports of illegal workersd, so provide proof of working activity in Thailand, earnings etc, and where you live, and allow us to report you.. Then when the labour department investigate one of us will be proved right !!

[LivinLOS]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:17 PM, perthperson said:

For the DN in Thailand the problem is not with securing a WP but ensuring they have a visa to remain in the country legally. The Thai government is succeeding in reducing(choking off) the visa run options the DNs were using.

 

Put another way.. This is exactly how nomads have screwed it up for all the other more law abiding folks. 

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, robblok said:

Did they actually tell that ? Could work here without problems as long as they don't do business in Thailand.. sounds almost too good to be true. 

 

No they didnt.. 

 

What nomads quote as gospel was a Thai language Q&A where an immigration officer who is not responsible for encorcing labour law was aksed about it.. On the spot he replied in Thai that "immigration wasnt concerned with this <law>" which is correct.. That was then miss translated to be "immigration says they dont care about working online" which was not what was said.. 

 

The fact remains, asking immigration about labour law is like asking your car mechanic if you need a root canal, its not his job, hence he wouldnt be concerned about it. 

 

Theres 2 direct precise questions asked and answered by the labour department, one for working exclusively online and another on blogging / receiving revenue from videos. Both answers entirely consistent, and carefully explained. But nomads dont like that answer. 

[LivinLOS]

9 hours ago, jspill said:

Agree they can't control it but there's actually no evidence they want to prohibit remote working. They've made plenty of statements about cracking down on criminals and people working in Thailand - and they make references to gambling dens, porn, ATM skimmers, etc. - but I've never seen any statement about remote workers and I've been following the news media and thaivisa closely for 7 years. 

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/chinese-porn-website-gang-arrested-at-faham-home/

 

Quote

They initally denied the allegations but now have been arrested and awaiting trial. They will be charged under the Computer Crime Act BE 2550 for disseminating pornography from within the Kingdom, and for working without the correct visa and work permits.

 

How can they be charged with working without the correct visas and work permits, when its not a crime to work online ? 

 

How would someone get charged 

[nausea]

4 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Not the teachers In Ubon Thai teachers 15,000 Baht per Month  Farang Teachers 33,000 Baht per month why cant they pay the Thai teachers more? 

Thais earn less but they have job security, healthcare, pension, and career progression. Thai teachers fluent in English can secure jobs (in Bangkok at least) on comparable salaries (c.50,000bt up) to Farangs but few are at that level.

[robblok]

25 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

No they didnt.. 

 

What nomads quote as gospel was a Thai language Q&A where an immigration officer who is not responsible for encorcing labour law was aksed about it.. On the spot he replied in Thai that "immigration wasnt concerned with this <law>" which is correct.. That was then miss translated to be "immigration says they dont care about working online" which was not what was said.. 

 

The fact remains, asking immigration about labour law is like asking your car mechanic if you need a root canal, its not his job, hence he wouldnt be concerned about it. 

 

Theres 2 direct precise questions asked and answered by the labour department, one for working exclusively online and another on blogging / receiving revenue from videos. Both answers entirely consistent, and carefully explained. But nomads dont like that answer. 

Why was nobody then charged after the raid  at those coo work places in Chiang Mai.. surely if it was important to them and they wanted digital nomads not to work.. then why were they all let off without any problems ?

 

Just curious because if what you say is true then these guys should have been charged and we would have known about it.. but they were all let go.

 

Now If I were a digital nomad I would keep to myself and not work in co work spaces. Nobody would ever find out then. 

[Happyman58]

17 minutes ago, nausea said:

Thais earn less but they have job security, healthcare, pension, and career progression. Thai teachers fluent in English can secure jobs (in Bangkok at least) on comparable salaries (c.50,000bt up) to Farangs but few are at that level.

Well said Sir Maybe you should be education Minister because he cant see That Thai teachers are not at the level What hope for kids?

[LannaGuy]

6 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

God it like loading a six gun  Is that for real My god I am horrified

I had two Burmese workers (building a house) who did not work Friday as they had to go to the Police Station as the Police turned up on-site after they were reported. They paid 10,000 baht for some sort of permit or fine 2,500 of which is paid as a bounty. I don't understand all the details but my Thai constructor say's this is a very recent trend. He also told me 1000s of Burmese had to go back this weekend as they could not afford the bill.  This is his version and I'm sort of waiting to find out how widespread this is.

[balo]

16 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Even though they are paid from USA, their salary is around $28,000 USA a year.

 

They have been in Thailand around 7 - 10 years.

 

A few are married and worry they will get caught.

 

One was dusted by his own wife when they separated and she turned him in and he was deported

 

 

Nonsense, if he was busted it was because he must have had some work connections to Thailand, not the US. Maybe his salary went into a Thai bank account which is a stupid thing to do . 

 

[balo]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

How can they be charged with working without the correct visas and work permits, when its not a crime to work online ? 

 

 

The Chinese gang were not really digital nomads , they worked from a hired office in Chiang Mai , a bunch of them together, and what they did online was also illegal in Thailand , distributing porn etc.

 

"watching pornography is not illegal, but selling, trading and distribution is illegal under pornography laws, section 287 of the penal code and article 14 of the criminal code."

 

Not the same as writing an online article or a blog from your own home is it ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by balo

[LivinLOS]

7 minutes ago, balo said:

 

The Chinese gang were not really digital nomads , they worked from a hired office in Chiang Mai , a bunch of them together, and what they did online was also illegal in Thailand , distributing porn etc.

 

"watching pornography is not illegal, but selling, trading and distribution is illegal under pornography laws, section 287 of the penal code and article 14 of the criminal code."

 

Not the same as writing an online article or a blog from your own home is it ?

 

 

It wasnt a hired office it was a private home, you know the same as so many nomads work from.. 

 

The point you seem to miss is they were charged with a crime.. A crime many are claiming isnt illegal. 

 

How can something be legal, when there were charges " for working without the correct visa and work permits " 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Why was nobody then charged after the raid  at those coo work places in Chiang Mai.. surely if it was important to them and they wanted digital nomads not to work.. then why were they all let off without any problems ?

 

Just curious because if what you say is true then these guys should have been charged and we would have known about it.. but they were all let go.

 

Now If I were a digital nomad I would keep to myself and not work in co work spaces. Nobody would ever find out then. 

I rode past a cop without a helmet on the other day, nothing happened, so not wearing helmets is legal in Thailand.. 

 

Why were they not charged ?? Maybe no one knew how to handle the issue without proof, maybe the nomads denied working on the record, maybe immigration were confused and unsure after expecting to raid something different, maybe they were scared of bad press for tourism.. Maybe any one of many possible reasons why someone doesnt get charged for a crime. That happens daily in Thailand. 

 

Getting away with something, not being prosecuted for something, does not make something legal. 

[Grubster]

On 6/27/2017 at 6:04 PM, samsensam said:

 

indeed, many western countries have jobs that the locals dont want to/wont do and are often snapped up by illegal workers, as long as these workers are treated fairly then it is detrimental to a countries economy to kick them out.

 

however if a nationalistic government wants to appear tough on immigrants and foreigners then illegal workers are an easy target.

There are no jobs in the west that locals do not want to do, they may not want to do them for the starvation wages the anti labor people think the jobs should pay, but they are willing to do anything if the price is right. Thailand would be smart to not follow Americas lead of importing cheap labor.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I rode past a cop without a helmet on the other day, nothing happened, so not wearing helmets is legal in Thailand.. 

 

Why were they not charged ?? Maybe no one knew how to handle the issue without proof, maybe the nomads denied working on the record, maybe immigration were confused and unsure after expecting to raid something different, maybe they were scared of bad press for tourism.. Maybe any one of many possible reasons why someone doesnt get charged for a crime. That happens daily in Thailand. 

 

Getting away with something, not being prosecuted for something, does not make something legal. 

Your riding past the cops without a helmet is not a good example.. it would be if the cop had stopped you and not commented on the helmet. 

 

Your right about not getting prosecuted not equaling no crime.. it does show that they have no interest going after digital nomads. They had some clear examples and people working in a co work space and they did nothing. Seems a lot that they don't mind digital nomads at all.

 

Now I would not risk it if I were a DM to flaunt it around but if you keep your head down nothing will come from it. Its too hard for the cops to prove too much work. Same can't be said for working in bars and so on.. as its easier to prove and your taking jobs away from Thais. DM don't do that.. so they follow the spirit of the law. I guess reason prevails sometimes.  

[balo]

53 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

It wasnt a hired office it was a private home, you know the same as so many nomads work from.. 

 

The point you seem to miss is they were charged with a crime.. A crime many are claiming isnt illegal. 

 

How can something be legal, when there were charges " for working without the correct visa and work permits " 

 

If you read the whole article it was first mentioned the big crime of distributing porn . Next they mentioned work permits . They were a gang of Chinese breaking the laws .

 

They rented a big house but it was used as an office so the neighbors reported about unusual activity to the police.   A digital nomad would never work like that . 

 

So one thing lead to another , I can understand why they were charged with both distributing porn and working without permits. The police had no choice really. 

 

 

[rott]

On 27/06/2017 at 6:01 PM, Thai Ron said:

For 30-40K a month?

Hardly worth it, is it?

Would a Thai brickie earn that much? Or a Thai teacher, nurse, policeman, bank clerk? With 10 years experience of course.

 

And why would a western brickie want to work for Thai wages, best to work at home for 6 months on proper pay and come here for 6.