Entry denied Bangkok Airport

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, jspill said:

Still gonna be tons of people getting lucky, or getting smarter, trying new strategies, you're never going to see the back of us nomads :) And it's still a tiny % of nomads to begin with. I just want to lower my risk from tiny to near-zero.

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less what you do. You have zero effect on me or my lifestyle. What bugs me is the denial and disbelief by some posters. Particularly the posts that try to convince anyone that someone on a Tourist visa has no interest in working here.
It certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least to see some sort of limit put on Tourist visas that can be got in neighbouring country's in the near future.

[lkv]

5 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less what you do. You have zero effect on me or my lifestyle. What bugs me is the denial and disbelief by some posters. Particularly the posts that try to convince anyone that someone on a Tourist visa has no interest in working here.
It certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least to see some sort of limit put on Tourist visas that can be got in neighbouring country's in the near future.

Great, then we would know what the situation is and it would not be arbitrary.

 

I always wanted to learn how to defend myself at 33,000 baht per year, but at the.moment I prefer to travel.

 

We will deal with that situation when the time comes.

[perthperson]

8 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less what you do.

And to be perfectly honest it is the actions/behaviour of  some which has driven the Thai authorities toward  adopting ever tighter immigration controls.

 

Ie -- Ed visa scams - now very difficult!  Border running for visa exempt entries clamped , the double/triple tourist visa abolished.................

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by perthperson

[lkv]

Just now, perthperson said:

And to be perfectly honest it is the actions/behaviour of a some which has driven the Thai authorities toward  adopting ever tighter immigration controls.

 

Ie -- Ed visa scams - now very difficult!  Border running for visa exempt entries clamped , the double/triple tourist visa abolished.................

 

That's one way of seeing it.

 

Having been here for a while, I believe it's done for monetary purposes rather than whatever rhetoric they put out to the media.

 

And that includes all sorts of visas.

 

They are greedier since 2014, both above and under the table.

 

 

[Lovethailandelite]

3 minutes ago, perthperson said:

And to be perfectly honest it is the actions/behaviour of  some which has driven the Thai authorities toward  adopting ever tighter immigration controls.

 

Ie -- Ed visa scams - now very difficult!  Border running for visa exempt entries clamped , the double/triple tourist visa abolished.................

 

100% agree. As for the ED visa,they should start by shutting the agency's down that openly advertise no need to go to school....for a price?
Then again, I suppose they need to start somewhere. Perhaps that somewhere is the serial Tourist visa users.

[ubonjoe]

It is time to end the back and forth bickering that serves no purpose. Anymore of them will be removed.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

Remember when some people were told at land borders....go back and fly in?

Only at Poipet, that I have ever heard.  It sounds like a setup to put those who took their "advice" in the OP's shoes.  All other denials by land reported with Tourist Visas (even and even Non-Os) were for insufficient cash, mostly (if not all) at the Malaysian border.  The frustrating thing, is there are ATMs in "that other country," so people can come right back with the cash - no detention and no flight to far, far away.
 

5 hours ago, lkv said:

At land border they are much easier to be turned around and it is all more arbitrary.

But you aren't in detention, either.  That's the nice part.  You can only enter twice/yr on Visa-Exempt - but people staying here longer-term are really pushing it to try to enter with that by air - where you have even less leverage.  But if this story is repeated, maybe it won't matter, any more - visa or no-visa. 

 

I'd suggest encouraging visas, and having the effective-date start 3 days after issuance, so vetting for actual 'bad guys' could take place before a foreigner shows-up at the border to enter.  I support any reasonable efforts to keep Thailand and her people safe from the real threats in the world.  It is unfortunate that Immigration is being saddled with "filtering" incoming travelers for "too many tourist visas," which is a distraction from their critically-important role in helping keep Thailand safe.

 

I agree with the rest of your post - except the use of Thai airports.  I prefer to catch domestic-flights after I cross the border, when a bus is undesirable.  Vientiane is right on the border, and you just take a quick bus to Udon Thani Airport.  Penang is just a short high-speed train trip from the border, with a hop to Hat Yai Airport.  Domestic flights can be ~700 Baht, purchased in advance, so won't break the bank, either. 

 

3 hours ago, Happy enough said:

"i went to my home country at least once a year (usually twice) and got tourist visas there.  a home visit will do alot in terms of 'clearing your record'. this is an interesting statement. in it's entirety not relevant to the OP's predicament who I personally think has been a bit hard done by, but I want to see what peoples thoughts are so will open this as a new topic and see Id there's any response

That may have been true in the past, but a guy got rejected recently for not having the cash - coming straight in from Europe - because he didn't know they'd play this game: "The ATM is right behind me, but you can't use it, and I'm going to write on my form, that you don't have any money as the reason to reject your entry."

 

3 hours ago, moe666 said:

It would appear the OPs problem is only spending 1 week out of Thailand, believe it or not the Ios are not stupid as many would have you to believe. Before it was visa runs and now it is leave and stay out a few days not to draw attention. Well those days appear to be over. 

I hope the days of "rule by law" are not over.  The "visa-runs" rules were for Visa-Exempts - now supplanted by the 2-per-year rule.  These are published.  They even give you a little pamphlet when you enter using a visa-exempt at a land-border, explaining this policy.  We can argue why this is or isn't a good idea, but it is their right, and they have given fair-notice.

As to staying out a day, week, or month - there is no law or regulation concerning this.  But, someone working a Thai-job clearly cannot take frequent weeks and even months-off, so that should have reduced any suspicion of illegal-working, absent other compelling evidence.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

There are plenty of people under fifty who rent out property in there own country who can easily afford to keep themselves in Thailand long term, and who are not stupid enough to hand over 500.000 for five years, get nothing back in return, and still do this 90 day reporting nonsense.

I don't think I am wealthy in the comparitive sense. I have never done a 90 day report, too busy working outside Thailand, average about 24,000 USD per month. Not fifty yet and not stupid enough too marry a woman with low income from a country that is discriminated against for travel visas. Kobkarn and Yingluck are not available. You think I am stupid?

 

It works out to 273 baht a day, a pint of imported craft beer in CM is 280. A pittance.

 

 

[observer90210]

On 12.07.2017 at 5:49 AM, ubonjoe said:

Savings would be good enough to appeal. You would need bank statements showing transfers to here or ATM withdrawals.

Paragraph 3 is a catchall they use when they cannot come up with a better reason for denial of entry.

Even showing you have spent time outside the should be enough to overcome the denial. You having a ticket out of the country to Europe should be enough to prove you are not working here.

I think if more people were to appeal the denials given on baseless grounds it would help prevent such abuse.

Helpful points. What would be the way to appel? On arrival it seems a bit difficult so it means to appel at the Thai Embassy once back home?

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

Helpful points. What would be the way to appel? On arrival it seems a bit difficult so it means to appel at the Thai Embassy once back home?

Appeals need to be lodged at the point of denial.  

 

Immigration Police are not accountable to the MFA  so an appeal to an Embassy would be pointless.

 

 

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, somethingnice said:

 

So, OP. 

The money you spend in Thailand on your visits the past 1,5 year or so. 

Where do you have them from? Savings in your home country?

 

- Did you transfer them to a bank account in Thailand?
- Did you take it out from ATM's here in Thailand?
- Bring it in cash? (Then it must show on a bank statements from the Netherlands right?)

If you can prove either of those, that should be used to show the supervisor at Immigration, or at a appeal. 

If i was me, i would fly to Malaysia, Singapore or Vietnam, and then prepare that kind of proof where your funds are from. Travel back into Thailand again. In case that they ask you again - Show the cash, Onward ticket, proff where your funds is from (One of above). You could return in a day or two with bulletproof documentation, that you are not working in Thailand.

 

I think that's faster, than waiting for an appeal. And if you can proff this on your second entry, they should let you in.

If it was me I would never come back to Thailand after being treated like this. But maybe that's just me, I hold a grudge if I'm treated badly for no apparent reason.

 

[dbrenn]

On 12/07/2017 at 6:09 PM, ubonjoe said:

I still say it is true. I have read many reports of people being denied entry and were allowed to travel to other countries other than their home country.

For those from some countries their home country might be the only one they can go to without a visa for entry.

True - there was an article years back about Gary Glitter - he was refused entry to Thailand, having flown here after his release from prison in Vietnam. He then flew to Hong Kong (as I recall), where he was also refused entry, eventually being forced to return to the UK to face the music.

[howerde]

This looks like a crack down, as elswhere  on this forum it says 20 were refused entry at Malysian border, they all held 60 day tourist visas. 

[perthperson]

Just now, howerde said:

This looks like a crack down, as elswhere  on this forum it says 20 were refused entry at Malysian border, they all held 60 day tourist visas. 

Can you provide the link ? 

[howerde]

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, howerde said:

This looks like a crack down, as elswhere  on this forum it says 20 were refused entry at Malysian border, they all held 60 day tourist visas. 

I think  that is in a topic posted 3 years ago after the crackdown then at border crossing.

 

Edit: That is the topic I was writing about. Did you notice the date on it.

[howerde]

ooops soory just saw 14th july

and as it is only the 13th today, just assumed a link on the front page of Thai visa was up to date

Edited July 13, 2017 by howerde
need to add text

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, howerde said:

ooops soory just saw 14th july

 

14 July 2014 !  

[Cirencester]

So is the OP detained somewhere during this farce against his will  ??  I'd refuse that no question and leave on first available flight

[observer90210]

So the crackdown is on on visa runners through road borders?

 

Then how will those on METV, 6 month multiple entry tourist visas, with 60 days per entry manage?

 

Leave the kingdom every 60 days by plane, have some fun for 2 days in Indonesia, spend some money there and get back?

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

So the crackdown is on on visa runners through road borders?

 

Then how will those on METV, 6 month multiple entry tourist visas, with 60 days per entry manage?

 

Leave the kingdom every 60 days by plane, have some fun for 2 days in Indonesia, spend some money there and get back?

Methinks you misunderstand!

 

 There is no "crackdown" on valid visa holders METV or any other visa .....................Visa holders are welcome to use any convenient land border or airport - Their choice. 

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, observer90210 said:

So the crackdown is on on visa runners through road borders?

Then how will those on METV, 6 month multiple entry tourist visas, with 60 days per entry manage?

Leave the kingdom every 60 days by plane, have some fun for 2 days in Indonesia, spend some money there and get back?

So far, this aberrant behavior is confined to Airports and the Poipet land-border.  It appears to only become a problem after a certain period of time and/or number of entries, so you could probably get through one METV before the problems start.  But - that is a guess - because no limit has been published or even publicly stated. 

 

Currently, no one can Ever Know when they have crossed some arbitrary line, which a small group of IOs are 'enforcing'.  Therefore, anyone could have their plans wrecked upon any entry - be detained (jailed) and forced to buy a last-minute ticket - without knowing when/if they are doing anything 'wrong'.

 

If I were coming in on a Tourist Visa, and had spent considerable time in Thailand, I would fly back as far as Penang, train to the border, cross at Pedang Besar showing 20K Baht, then on to Hat Yai, then take a domestic flight from there to where ever inside Thailand.

[Zikomat]

A little bit off topic. Can anybody here explain me the logics behind the fact that internet nomad’s work in Thailand is classified in the same category as any other employment in Thailand by foreigner. My internet work has nothing to do with Thailand. The money I earn strictly outside Thailand is spent, in a big part, in Thailand. Still I am supposed to be punished by the Thai laws as if I worked illegally in the Kingdom.

[lkv]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

So far, this aberrant behavior is confined to Airports and the Poipet land-border.  It appears to only become a problem after a certain period of time and/or number of entries, so you could probably get through one METV before the problems start.  But - that is a guess - because no limit has been published or even publicly stated. 

 

Currently, no one can Ever Know when they have crossed some arbitrary line, which a small group of IOs are 'enforcing'.  Therefore, anyone could have their plans wrecked upon any entry - be detained (jailed) and forced to buy a last-minute ticket - without knowing when/if they are doing anything 'wrong'.

 

If I were coming in on a Tourist Visa, and had spent considerable time in Thailand, I would fly back as far as Penang, train to the border, cross at Pedang Besar showing 20K Baht, then on to Hat Yai, then take a domestic flight from there to where ever inside Thailand.

And if they don't let you in at Pedang Besar and then they tell you to fly and you fly, and you're then being detained.

 

Look, I understand people here got a little scared. All I can say is: f#ck it. If it happens it happens. For whatever reason not related to too many visas.

 

Should that be the case we'll reconsider the situation at that time.

 

I'm not going to streelss myself out for the next years travelling via land borders based on "what if", trying to avoid an unfortunate event that is most likely never going to happen.

 

It's just ridiculous.

Edited July 13, 2017 by lkv

[Mattd]

3 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

A little bit off topic. Can anybody here explain me the logics behind the fact that internet nomad’s work in Thailand is classified in the same category as any other employment in Thailand by foreigner. My internet work has nothing to do with Thailand. The money I earn strictly outside Thailand is spent, in a big part, in Thailand. Still I am supposed to be punished by the Thai laws as if I worked illegally in the Kingdom.

Very simple logic, you are not contributing to the society other than spending money, those that actually do earn money here pay income taxes, social security etc. as you would in your home country, they also spend the money earned here.

However, there is an argument, that I would tend to agree with, in that it is free money for Thailand, i.e. earned outside of Thailand but spent here, plus it is not denying a local of employment.

[tonray]

9 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

A little bit off topic. Can anybody here explain me the logics behind the fact that internet nomad’s work in Thailand is classified in the same category as any other employment in Thailand by foreigner. My internet work has nothing to do with Thailand. The money I earn strictly outside Thailand is spent, in a big part, in Thailand. Still I am supposed to be punished by the Thai laws as if I worked illegally in the Kingdom.

You can establish a company and pay taxes to Thailand, as any legitimate business would do.

[seancbk]

On 7/12/2017 at 1:54 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

Most countries don't like you entering as a tourist for more than 6 months in a year ........ I'm guessing he had 3 previous tourist VISAs this year.

 

 

Thailand's immigration law says you can visit as many times as you want in a year as long as you have a proper visa for each visit.



 

[jspill]

9 hours ago, lkv said:

And if they don't let you in at Pedang Besar and then they tell you to fly and you fly, and you're then being detained.

 

Look, I understand people here got a little scared. All I can say is: f#ck it. If it happens it happens. For whatever reason not related to too many visas.

 

Should that be the case we'll reconsider the situation at that time.

 

I'm not going to streelss myself out for the next years travelling via land borders based on "what if", trying to avoid an unfortunate event that is most likely never going to happen.

 

It's just ridiculous.

No you just go to another land border, or try the same border the next day. And we're not getting reports of denials at land borders (one exception Poipet)

 

It just depends what's less stressful for you, taking the scenic route over a land border, or airports, personally I don't like flying that much. 

 

Another denial and deportation thread today, guy had an Ed visa, had only been in thailand 13 months, anecdotally describes the IO as on a power trip. This is what I want to avoid:

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by jspill

[jspill]

12 hours ago, Cirencester said:

So is the OP detained somewhere during this farce against his will  ??  I'd refuse that no question and leave on first available flight

You're airside in the airport you can't refuse or go anywhere. 'Detention' is a bit strong wording it's just a room with bunk beds where yes you wait for the next available flight

[ubonjoe]

I just cleaned up the topic removing several posts for trolling. offtopic, baiting and etc. If your post disappears it means you stepped over the line.