bazza73 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 800 mL in 1000 km is too much. For an elderly engine, about 500 mL every 5000 km is reasonable. Second-hand engines from Japan are not expensive here. They have usually done quite low km in Japan, due to the motoring laws there. One may be a better option than having a rework of what sounds like a very tired motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAS21 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Jessi said: Jas21, thanks for your input. I have never heard of slick 50, I guess its something like the wynns products. Can it be bought in Thailand? Please note ... I wasn't recommending Slick50 ...also in post#10 I said that the fully synthetic oil I put in caused leaks after a while ... went back to a semi and now there are no more marks on the driveway .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 11 hours ago, pgrahmm said: Don't know enough about the OPs car...But in some engines if there is a failure in a smog control system can literally siphon the crankcase oil & carry it into the cylinders where it's combusted and really doesn't show as tailpipe smoke, just oil usage.... Maybe somebody else knows...Just throwing thoughts out there..... thought more or less all engines had such a feature, feeding oil from the crankcase back into the intake side of the engine. in Toyotas I think this is called CPV, crankshaft-case positive ventilation, very small amounts of oil though the oilreach warm air in the crankshaft-case, causing a small over-pressure, is led up and out of the engine and fed back in through the intake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 23 hours ago, transam said: If me and didn't want to spend out reconditioning the engine I would stick to using the same oil. DO NOT put synthetic in it..... You may get the top end refurbished and fixes the problem, which may need new valve guides fitted to achieve this, but if it is piston rings then it will start costing as a re-bore and oversized pistons will be required.. Second hand engine, well it is exactly that, comes with no "internal" history... transam, are you saying that synthetic oil should not be used on "worn" engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: transam, are you saying that synthetic oil should not be used on "worn" engines? Yes, it will probably get past old crank seals and clean out stuff you don't want cleaned out cos it is holding back oil usage/burning...I have the T-shirt.. Did I read someone brought the racist card to the motoring forum.... Edited July 18, 2017 by transam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Synthetic oil is like Heineken. To paraphrase, It will reach places other oils cannot reach. Edited July 18, 2017 by VocalNeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAS21 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said: transam, are you saying that synthetic oil should not be used on "worn" engines? I think the jury is out on this one ... personal experience says not a brilliant idea as I had a leak from a crankshaft oil seal ... changing back to a semi and it doesn't leak any more ... well no drips on the drive. However many reports say modern synthetics are okay with old engines. I only went to fully synthetic as it runs on LPG, but now I have gone to an oil 'which says!) specially for gassed engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, JAS21 said: I think the jury is out on this one ... personal experience says not a brilliant idea as I had a leak from a crankshaft oil seal ... changing back to a semi and it doesn't leak any more ... well no drips on the drive. However many reports say modern synthetics are okay with old engines. I only went to fully synthetic as it runs on LPG, but now I have gone to an oil 'which says!) specially for gassed engines. right, and using non-sythetic oil in LoS, no problem with high oil temperatures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: right, and using non-sythetic oil in LoS, no problem with high oil temperatures? What did they use before syn oil came along... Some modern engines must have syn, that worries me a bit because you must pay top dollar at a service for that engine design to survive. All oils have to deal with high temps, mineral has to be dumped way earlier than syn in the same engine that can survive on mineral oil.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, transam said: What did they use before syn oil came along... Some modern engines must have syn, that worries me a bit because you must pay top dollar at a service for that engine design to survive. All oils have to deal with high temps, mineral has to be dumped way earlier than syn in the same engine that can survive on mineral oil.. yes, point taken I'm struggling a bit with oil temps higher than I like, using synt gives me some comfort 'cause I know the oil will lubricate ok, even at high temp whatever, maybe I'll go back to mineral next time, (combined with an extra oil cooler perhaps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrahmm Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, JAS21 said: I think the jury is out on this one ... personal experience says not a brilliant idea as I had a leak from a crankshaft oil seal ... changing back to a semi and it doesn't leak any more ... well no drips on the drive. However many reports say modern synthetics are okay with old engines. I only went to fully synthetic as it runs on LPG, but now I have gone to an oil 'which says!) specially for gassed engines. No way - they're only trying to sell oil....You can't even put synth oil in a new rebuild as the rings will never seat (I've experienced this) after a very expensive racing machine shop build....Had to come apart again....The install done elsewhere & they made the mistake..... This is how a Chevron engineer explained it to me by laying a bunch of coins on a counter..... That represents the molecular structure of mineral/natural/refined oil....The molecules are different sizes which creates a damming effect on seals including the rings.... In a synthetic oil you'd remove the 10,5,2, & 1's of the coins leaving you with the satangs - all small and all of the same size....Easy to bypass seals creating leaks and compression loss in worn engines or engines not built with the tolerances required to use synthetic oils.....He also went on to explain that once used, in many engines going back to mineral/refined oil would not always stop the leaks....Repairs had to be made - usually involved and costly... I found it to be a good lesson from a man that made his livelihood formulating oil & studying oil's failures & resultant damage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingleft? Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 right, and using non-sythetic oil in LoS, no problem with high oil temperatures? No, using synthetic in an older engine probably will cause issues. If the car has run on synthetic from new then no problems, it's the conversion to this oil at a later stage in the engines life that develops the problems with oil leaks etcHorses for courses, follow the manual recommendations or if you have any personal knowledge/preference then make up your own mind as to what to spend your money onOld cars and slack engines get run with cheap oil in my book just plenty of changes. New cars and better engines then the best I can afford at the timeMotorbikes only ever run them with fully synthetic always haveSent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said: yes, point taken I'm struggling a bit with oil temps higher than I like, using synt gives me some comfort 'cause I know the oil will lubricate ok, even at high temp whatever, maybe I'll go back to mineral next time, (combined with an extra oil cooler perhaps) My 60 year old fun ride engine designed lump loved syn oil, but I built it the engine to my specifications and was not a worn out lump.. My beloved V6 Volvo had a lot of miles on it, thought l would give it a treat and put syn in it...Within no time it was "fuming" and both crank seals started leaking....Drained it out and replaced with mineral oil and a can of Wynns oil seal rejuvenation....After a few hundred miles the rear seal was OK, the front, no...I replaced the seal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jessi said: It was me trans!!!!! I called it a jap engine...... So I am a racist....What about the ones that call me an Aussie, same same. I had a Yank ride in the UK for over 20 years...... We could start a racist motoring club.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessi Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, pgrahmm said: No way - they're only trying to sell oil....You can't even put synth oil in a new rebuild as the rings will never seat (I've experienced this) after a very expensive racing machine shop build....Had to come apart again....The install done elsewhere & they made the mistake..... This is how a Chevron engineer explained it to me by laying a bunch of coins on a counter..... That represents the molecular structure of mineral/natural/refined oil....The molecules are different sizes which creates a damming effect on seals including the rings.... In a synthetic oil you'd remove the 10,5,2, & 1's of the coins leaving you with the satangs - all small and all of the same size....Easy to bypass seals creating leaks and compression loss in worn engines or engines not built with the tolerances required to use synthetic oils.....He also went on to explain that once used, in many engines going back to mineral/refined oil would not always stop the leaks....Repairs had to be made - usually involved and costly... I found it to be a good lesson from a man that made his livelihood formulating oil & studying oil's failures & resultant damage.... Thanks for you postings, You are bringing a lot of knowledge to this forum, also many other members, I have learnt a lot about oils never too old to learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessi Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, transam said: I had a Yank ride in the UK for over 20 years...... We could start a racist motoring club.... My point ... A person from Wales... A Taffy """"" Scotland... A Jock. ''' ''' ' '' '' USA .... A Yank Large American cars have often been refered to as Yank Tanks. Edited July 18, 2017 by Jessi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, Jessi said: Thanks for you postings, You are bringing a lot of knowledge to this forum, also many other members, I have learnt a lot about oils never too old to learn Engine oils and auto box fluids have a temperature that they want to operate at properly, for instance my race/street auto box wanted 175 deg F to be happy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 34 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: right, and using non-sythetic oil in LoS, no problem with high oil temperatures? You can use any oil in Thailand which has the correct viscosity for the engine design e.g. 10w30 , to 20w50 , etc etc. Because of the Thai heat change it more often, l use semi- syn they are at reasonable prices now. The sales teams of companies are clever at brainwashing. One report says however, synthetic motor oil can cost two to four times as much as regular oil, true, maybe it will come down sometime. So unless your owner's manual specifies synthetic, you don’t need it. bollow. But Consumer Reports’ chief mechanic says there are some situations where synthetic oil’s resistance to breakdown can help prolong the life of an engine. true so does semi-syn. If you make lots of short trips, standard motor oil may never get warm enough to burn off moisture and impurities. true but it's hot here so just change more. If you live in a region with very hot summers synthetic oil won’t break down as quickly. true. While synthetic generally holds up better and can serve for more miles, it is important to not extend oil changes beyond the time interval recommended by the manufacturer—typically six months or a year. same with semi-syn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrahmm Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, transam said: Engine oils and auto box fluids have a temperature that they want to operate at properly, for instance my race/street auto box wanted 175 deg F to be happy.... That's why you kept warm fuzzy dangly balls around your rear view mirror.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said: Motorbikes only ever run them with fully synthetic always have Respect your preference just saying I didn't have syn oils for my motorbikes years ago and they were OK l don't bother with syn oil now, semi-syn perfectly OK for motorbikes/ scoots/ moped in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, pgrahmm said: That's why you kept warm fuzzy dangly balls around your rear view mirror.... Nooooooooooo, I had a Gorilla head on top of my dash board...No not mine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Kwasaki said: semi-syn perfectly OK for motorbikes/ scoots/ moped in Thailand. Semi-synthetic is a waste of money. It is neither fish nor fowl! Quote "Semi-synthetics" are oils which are a blend of petroleum oil and no more than 30% synthetic oil. If the manufacturer adds no more than 30% synthetic oil and does not change the additive package, they do not have to recertify the oil. These days, since everyone has agreed that Group III base oils are "synthetic," I'm not sure "semi-synthetic" means anything at all. The manufacturers love this stuff: it costs about 15% more to make the oil, and they get to charge about double. I don't recommend semi-synthetics. Save your money and take your kids to McDonalds. https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oil.html Speedway bikes now use GM engines from Italy. Edited July 18, 2017 by VocalNeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said: Semi-synthetic is a waste of money. It is neither fish nor fowl! So why do oil manufacturers post oil changes....? Mineral .....5000k Semi-syn...10,000k Syn............15,000k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, VocalNeal said: Semi-synthetic is a waste of money. It is neither fish nor fowl! https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oil.html and probably not vegetarian, must be steak then - ain't bad that either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza73 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, transam said: What did they use before syn oil came along... Some modern engines must have syn, that worries me a bit because you must pay top dollar at a service for that engine design to survive. All oils have to deal with high temps, mineral has to be dumped way earlier than syn in the same engine that can survive on mineral oil.. Mineral oils have additives which reduce the co-efficient of friction. When the additives are exhausted, the COF rises to that of straight mineral oil, which is not a particularly effective lubricant of itself. Synthetic oils are composed of long-chain fatty acid esters. They last longer because it takes longer for the ester component to be exhausted. The rough rule of thumb for fussbudgets is change mineral-based oils every 5000 km, semi-synthetic every 10,000 km, and full synthetic every 20,000 km. Having said that, 10,000 km between changes for a mineral base is probably OK. Many of the modern engines with tight tolerances need a full synthetic from day one. I'm not sure I'd be too happy using something with a PTFE base in a combustion chamber. One of the potential products may be hydrofluoric acid, which would chew up valves and the exhaust system in short order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, bazza73 said: What did they use before syn oil came along... Castrol R? Edited July 18, 2017 by VocalNeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Posts containing ethnic slurs toward Japanese people have been removed. Here's some clarification on the term "Jap": A disparaging term for a person of Japanese birth or ancestry. A contemptuous term used to refer to a Japanese person. Today it is generally regarded as an ethnic slur among Japanese minority populations in other countries, although English-speaking countries differ in the degree to which they consider the term offensive. The posts containing those ethnic slurs were reported yesterday and they removed. As per the above descriptions, using the term "Japs" would then fall in violation of this forum rule: 11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation. Today, denigrating posts commenting on moderation regarding the removals have been removed as well: 10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy. You will not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension. Today, the motorcycles built by JAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JA_Prestwich_Industries was introduced into this thread. That is another subject and not an ethnic slur on Japanese people and the cars and the engines in those cars built by the Japanese car maker Toyota in which the ethnic slur "Japs" was used. I hope this has clarified the ethnic slur issue and if the OP continues to post in the manner which would be in violation of the forum rules listed above, a posting suspension will be forthcoming. As the topic is not about the motorcycles built by the British motorcycle company called JAP, and not related to oil consumption in his 1996 Toyota Corolla, the posts related to the JAP motorbikes have been removed as off topic. Please continue in your discussion about oil consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, VocalNeal said: Semi-synthetic is a waste of money. It is neither fish nor fowl! OK as usually with people on here, disagree with 30 years of experience in servicing motorbikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, VocalNeal said: "Semi-synthetics" are oils which are a blend of petroleum oil and no more than 30% synthetic oil. If the manufacturer adds no more than 30% synthetic oil and does not change the additive package, they do not have to recertify the oil. These days, since everyone has agreed that Group III base oils are "synthetic," I'm not sure "semi-synthetic" means anything at all. The manufacturers love this stuff: it costs about 15% more to make the oil, and they get to charge about double. I don't recommend semi-synthetics. Save your money and take your kids to McDonalds. Sorry semi-syns are not expensive and l wouldn't recommend McDonald's either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAS21 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, VocalNeal said: Castrol R? For the purist ... what a smell ........ just a teaspoonful needed in with your fuel ....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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