"My Mate Nate" doesn't have a work permit - but lucky break means he won't be prosecuted for working

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"My Mate Nate" doesn't have a work permit - but lucky break means he won't be prosecuted for working

 

Picture: Thai Rath

 

BANGKOK: -- Youtuber Nate Bartling doesn't have a work permit and records show he has never even applied for one.

 

However, despite working illegally in Thailand he wont be prosecuted due to an amnesty on foreign workers in place until January.

 

The 24 year old American has been in hot water since a series of videos have got him in ever increasing trouble. In a latest stunt he put foreign coins on a railway track incurring the wrath of the Thai authorities.

 

He was charged with trespass and damage to the railways while an online petition signed by 30,000 people demanded he be deported.

 

Now the Labour department has confirmed that he has been working illegally. Ranon Peetiwan said that though he was doing videos on social media he was earning money from the clicks of viewers of his YouTube channel that amounted to working.

 

And that work was illegal because he was in Thailand and he has no work permit and according to department records has never even applied for one.

 

This seemed to run contrary to what Nate himself has claimed.

 

But the American cannot be prosecuted for working. An amnesty is in place until January 1st, a total of 180 days. This was introduced after proposed 800,000 baht fines for those employing foreign nationals was considered too severe.

 

Ranon said that this was a very lucky break for Nate Bartling. He was entitled to apply for a work permit in the coming weeks but it would be up to officials whether he would be granted one.

 

On the one hand some of his work has exhibited inappropriate behavior that may not be a suitable role model for Thai youth. However, if he were to atone for this and change his ways then a permit might be granted, pointed out Ranon.

 

Ranon said the way was open for either eventuality.

 

Some people have claimed that Nate's videos have been viewed hundreds of millions of times. If that were the case his earnings could easily have topped many millions of Thai baht.

 

Source: Thai Rath

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-07-19

[Thechook]

Why do you need a work permit to use your own computer in your own home to access and post on youtube?  YouTube is free to use and open to everyone and it's not as if you can hire a thai to do your hobbies, use your computer so you are entertained.  So farangs being amused and tapping a key on a keyboard is now another job reserved for thais in Thailand.  It's already illegal to mow your lawns, wash your car and take the garbage out, do we have to hire a thai to use my phone and call family?

[Somtamnication]

Because this is Thailand. Making it harder and harder for the rest of us who have families here. I don't see it improving until after the "election". 

[impulse]

51 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Why do you need a work permit to use your own computer in your own home to access and post on youtube?  YouTube is free to use and open to everyone and it's not as if you can hire a thai to do your hobbies, use your computer so you are entertained.  So farangs being amused and tapping a key on a keyboard is now another job reserved for thais in Thailand.  It's already illegal to mow your lawns, wash your car and take the garbage out, do we have to hire a thai to use my phone and call family?

 

You're confusing the need for a work permit for doing any work in Thailand with the rules that say you can't do certain protected jobs, even with a work permit.

 

If he's making money filming YouTube videos in Thailand and doing post production in Thailand, and posting them from Thailand, he is working in Thailand.  I don't think there are any rules against foreigners taking on that work, but it is work.  Which requires a work permit- and that requires a business structure that qualifies him for a work permit.  Or more discretion to stay under the radar.  He apparently had neither.

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by impulse

[FritsSikkink]

Let the tax man give him a visit.

[LazySlipper]

Send him home in a booby  bag...

[ChidlomDweller]

2 hours ago, Thechook said:

Why do you need a work permit to use your own computer in your own home to access and post on youtube?  YouTube is free to use and open to everyone and it's not as if you can hire a thai to do your hobbies, use your computer so you are entertained.  So farangs being amused and tapping a key on a keyboard is now another job reserved for thais in Thailand.  It's already illegal to mow your lawns, wash your car and take the garbage out, do we have to hire a thai to use my phone and call family?

The answer is not just about Thailand but a global phenomenon.  Why should digital work be free of national regulations or taxes?  What about programming?  Why not incude all intellectual work?  Rules should be the same for everyone.  The only reason why digital workers and internet companies get away with it has to do with the ease of evading taxes, more than the ethics of it.

 

I'm not a fan of this government, or any Thai government, but that's a separate point.  If you choose to live in a country and enjoy the public benefits like roads, an educated population, access to a police force when needed, etc., you ought to pay just like the next person.  I know those benefits are a shambles in Thailand, but it's the general principle: taxes are the cost of living in a civilized society.  If you choose to make a country your home, and you make your money in that country, you're on the hook to pay taxes as much as a local worker.

Edited July 19, 2017 by ChidlomDweller

[imagemaestro]

 "his work has exhibited inappropriate behavior that may not be a suitable role model for Thai youth. However, if he were to atone for this and change his ways then a permit might be granted, pointed out Ranon."

Are we running a country here or a 1930's Agatha Christie novel english upper class private girls school ? I have a vision of Ranon in a sensible all weather hat, button down wet weather jacket, tweed skirt and sensible shoes warning the "goils" that hockey was not good for their hymen preservation.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Quote

 

On the one hand some of his work has exhibited inappropriate behavior that may not be a suitable role model for Thai youth. However, if he were to atone for this and change his ways then a permit might be granted, pointed out Ranon.

 

 

 

I like the part where the Labor official is saying that the decision on whether to grant him a work permit will depend (at least in part) on whether his work serves as a good influence on Thai youth!!!

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but I don't recall that being any part of the criteria for eligibility for Thai work permits.

 

Aww....forget all that stuff about having Thai employees, paying taxes, submitting periodic accounting reports, etc etc...  What we REALLY want to see is, whether he's a good influence on Thai youth!

Edited July 19, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ChidlomDweller]

You point is?  I'm sure as an academic he pays taxes in the UK.  If he were employed as an academic in Thailand he should  pay taxes here.  (Let's not get into the separate argument whether this government is worthy of our taxes.)

 

By the way, as far as I understand it, the law here is that you only pay taxes on income generated here.  For instance, if I go to Singapore for a consulting job or receive rental income abroad, that's not taxable.  That would legally get many digital nomads off the hook.  Not that annoying Nate creature, though.

 

[darksidedog]

Does this then mean that any foreigner can now work without being arrested until January?

[Thechook]

1 minute ago, darksidedog said:

Does this then mean that any foreigner can now work without being arrested until January?

It appears so

[JAG]

It will be very interesting to see whether the large amount of money this fellow makes from his Utube activities which now require a work permit, and the widespread benefits which may result, will be sufficient to overcome authorities antipathy to social media!

[charmonman]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

You're confusing the need for a work permit for doing any work in Thailand with the rules that say you can't do certain protected jobs, even with a work permit.

 

If he's making money filming YouTube videos in Thailand and doing post production in Thailand, and posting them from Thailand, he is working in Thailand.  I don't think there are any rules against foreigners taking on that work, but it is work.  Which requires a work permit- and that requires a business structure that qualifies him for a work permit.  Or more discretion to stay under the radar.  He apparently had neither.

 

 

 

That is an interesting point you make in that he was making the videos IN Thailand with the purpose of earning money on them, but what is the next step on this slippery slope? Maybe prohibiting tourists from posting any videos on Youtube of their Thailand holidays? Prohibiting foreigners from even using a laptop without a work permit? The bureaucracy of the labour / immigration departments of this country need to seriously update themselves to the modern world.

 

This whole story about My Mate Nate is almost as ridiculous as the pensioners who were arrested in Pattaya a couple of years for playing bridge. If putting a few coins on a railway track can seriously cause damage to the train or the tracks then Thailand also needs an emergency update to its transport system. What if a small stone found its way on to the track? Would it cause a major derailment? This whole thing is incredibly stupid, even for Thailand.

[terminatorchiangmai]

Tax the guy and fine him for not having paid any taxes in Thailand !

[tonray]

No wonder he recently announced he is getting married to his Thai GF soon. I would imagine that his next Non-B application might come under some scrutiny.

 

Based upon what Thais in general feel about him and how other less conspicuous folks are denied entry, I would guess Nate is greasing some palms with his profits already.

Edited July 19, 2017 by tonray

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Because this is Thailand. Making it harder and harder for the rest of us who have families here. I don't see it improving until after the "election". 

And why will it improve then? 

[darren84310]

3 hours ago, Thechook said:

Why do you need a work permit to use your own computer in your own home to access and post on youtube?  YouTube is free to use and open to everyone and it's not as if you can hire a thai to do your hobbies, use your computer so you are entertained.  So farangs being amused and tapping a key on a keyboard is now another job reserved for thais in Thailand.  It's already illegal to mow your lawns, wash your car and take the garbage out, do we have to hire a thai to use my phone and call family?

Because it's his way of making a living...... I always thought that the way you make your living is your job..... Is it difficult to understand?

[Toshiba66]

The guy appears to be quite silly but there are far worse farang doing far worse things in Thailand than he will ever do. Lets start with the drug dealers for one thing.

 

The digital nomad thing is interesting. I have many friends doing that here. Are they stealing a job a Thai can do.....No. Are they spending lots of money here supporting the economy while being paid from overseas....Yes. 

 

As far as paying taxes go every time I order something from Ali Express I don't think I am paying tax. Am I bad?

 

I think there is tons of grey area around the digital nomad issue and paying tax issue. With every litre of fuel and every beer I am sure we pay some tax don't we?

[recom273]

1 hour ago, ChidlomDweller said:

The answer is not just about Thailand but a global phenomenon.  Why should digital work be free of national regulations or taxes?  What about programming?  Why not incude all intellectual work?  Rules should be the same for everyone.  The only reason why digital workers and internet companies get away with it has to do with the ease of evading taxes, more than the ethics of it.

 

I'm not a fan of this government, or any Thai government, but that's a separate point.  If you choose to live in a country and enjoy the public benefits like roads, an educated population, access to a police force when needed, etc., you ought to pay just like the next person.  I know those benefits are a shambles in Thailand, but it's the general principle: taxes are the cost of living in a civilized society.  If you choose to make a country your home, and you make your money in that country, you're on the hook to pay taxes as much as a local worker.

Yes, indeed - So where is the process in place to apply for a WP for an online career? it's not heavy hitters like Nate, there are plenty here with a wife and kids that can earn 30-50,000K working for companies out of Thailand.

 

Lets have an extension of stay - a degree or a teachers permit or any other BS qualification isn't necessary for these companies. 

 

Its not the small amount of tax that's the problem here, it's the system that's the issue yet again.

 

I would suggest in this case that the guy is either working in the entertainment, he's just being naive and should get himself and agent, he would probably benefit but for the hundreds of others, let's have a system.

[terminatorchiangmai]

4 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

PAY TAXES!!!!!!

 

So...they can build a tunnel in Pattaya (that doesn't work), or maybe install crosswalk traffic lights that have never worked/are ignored. Let's not forget that they need submarines & tanks & new aircraft (that won't work in 2 years).

 

Maybe pay for a few more inactive posts for corrupt cops. Maybe in the USA my taxes can go into a 3 billion USD "healthcare website"...that doesn't work.

 

I say it is a moral, civil obligation to AVOID (not evade) taxes.

 

Nate is an idiot in my opinion to put it lightly, but there are precious few governments out there that deserve a paycheck from my innovation, education and hard work.

 

I'm getting older now, in Georgia (USA), and there are at least 2 dozen able-bodied people I can point out that get a 'disability check' from the government.

 

Try to hire them to come cut the grass/paint the house at the beginning of a month & they are WAAAY too sick. Get them on the 27th of any month (when they are almost broke) and they'll work like their next beer depends on it, because it does.

 

Disabled indeed!

I have a work permit and pay more then 40.000 per month on tax for my company and i not drive a Mercedes convertible, so why shouldn't he pay taxes of money earned in Thailand ?

[ChidlomDweller]

4 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Yes, indeed - So where is the process in place to apply for a WP for an online career? it's not heavy hitters like Nate, there are plenty here with a wife and kids that can earn 30-50,000K working for companies out of Thailand.

 

Lets have an extension of stay - a degree or a teachers permit or any other BS qualification isn't necessary for these companies. 

 

Its not the small amount of tax that's the problem here, it's the system that's the issue yet again.

 

I would suggest in this case that the guy is either working in the entertainment, he's just being naive and should get himself and agent, he would probably benefit but for the hundreds of others, let's have a system.

Good point.  A work permit like that sounds like a great idea and fit perfectly with the supposed goal of Thailand 4.0.  It might get abused if people set up a shell internet company only for a residence permit, but any law comes with loopholes.

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Toshiba66 said:

The guy appears to be quite silly but there are far worse farang doing far worse things in Thailand than he will ever do. Lets start with the drug dealers for one thing.

 

The digital nomad thing is interesting. I have many friends doing that here. Are they stealing a job a Thai can do.....No. Are they spending lots of money here supporting the economy while being paid from overseas....Yes. 

 

As far as paying taxes go every time I order something from Ali Express I don't think I am paying tax. Am I bad?

 

I think there is tons of grey area around the digital nomad issue and paying tax issue. With every litre of fuel and every beer I am sure we pay some tax don't we?

 

One of the documents they needed every year to renew my work permit was to indicate that I had paid enough income tax during the previous year.  That's in addition to any VAT and fuel and import duties and other consumption taxes that I paid throughout the year.  Pretty much just like locals who make the same salary.  That seems fair.

 

Try that bit about "spending a ton of money and supporting the economy" to sidestep paying income taxes back home and see how far it gets you.  Or the bit about "all my money comes from overseas customers, so I don't owe any taxes here where I operate" (and suck up resources).

 

 

 

[inThailand]

Let him stay and marry his gf.  If she takes him for all his money, will that be sweet justice ?

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Good point.  A work permit like that sounds like a great idea and fit perfectly with the supposed goal of Thailand 4.0.  It might get abused if people set up a shell internet company only for a residence permit, but any law comes with loopholes.

 

Given that one requirement to renew a WP is to show you've paid enough income taxes the previous year, I doubt most digital nomads would poke their heads up to get one.  Cheaper (albeit a minuscule risk) to stay under the radar and not pay any.   That's not fair, of course.

 

I wish they would allow such WP's.  It would eliminate a lot of whining about a straw man.  And allow some good guys who do follow the rules and sign up to let their sphincters relax.  Gotta be stressful not knowing when your loophole is going to slam shut on your entire livelihood.  I'm on a legal WP and I get nervous every year when it's time to renew not only the WP, but my contract with my employer.  For several months, I go into a mode getting ready to liquidate (or go retirement) if I don't get renewed.  Even that's no fun.

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by impulse

[Artisi]

48 minutes ago, charmonman said:

That is an interesting point you make in that he was making the videos IN Thailand with the purpose of earning money on them, but what is the next step on this slippery slope? Maybe prohibiting tourists from posting any videos on Youtube of their Thailand holidays? Prohibiting foreigners from even using a laptop without a work permit? The bureaucracy of the labour / immigration departments of this country need to seriously update themselves to the modern world.

 

This whole story about My Mate Nate is almost as ridiculous as the pensioners who were arrested in Pattaya a couple of years for playing bridge. If putting a few coins on a railway track can seriously cause damage to the train or the tracks then Thailand also needs an emergency update to its transport system. What if a small stone found its way on to the track? Would it cause a major derailment? This whole thing is incredibly stupid, even for Thailand.

 Maybe the government should prohibit people posting nonsense online, whether tourist or on long term extensions. 

[NextStationBangkok]

I hope they will not try to prosecute and arrest YouTube chief for allowing Nate illegally working in Thailand.

 

[jaywalker]

6 minutes ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

I have a work permit and pay more then 40.000 per month on tax for my company and i not drive a Mercedes convertible, so why shouldn't he pay taxes of money earned in Thailand ?

Never said the guy should not pay taxes. I said AVOID (not evade) taxes.

 

My point is that most all taxpayer money is wasted by civil servants who are bored to tears & show it when you need something from them.

 

I appreciate a steady water supply, garbage removal, and decent roads, which are local taxes.

 

If I NEED a cop, I appreciate them taking an interest in what they are doing/what I need, before I have to pay them.

 

Sadly, most all of the above is intermittent in Thailand.

 

Paying a portion of MY money to corrupt (at every level) Thai "Officials" is ludicrous.

[Toshiba66]

9 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

One of the documents they needed every year to renew my work permit was to indicate that I had paid enough income tax during the previous year.  That's in addition to any VAT and fuel and import duties and other consumption taxes that I paid throughout the year.  Pretty much just like locals who make the same salary.  That seems fair.

 

Try that bit about "spending a ton of money and supporting the economy" to sidestep paying income taxes back home and see how far it gets you.  Or the bit about "all my money comes from overseas customers, so I don't owe any taxes here where I operate" (and suck up resources).

 

 

 

Try that bit about "spending a ton of money and supporting the economy" to sidestep paying income taxes back home and see how far it gets you.  Or the bit about "all my money comes from overseas customers, so I don't owe any taxes here where I operate" (and suck up resources).

 

Where did I say that?

[moe666]

I am sure Nate will figure it out he appears a rube but probably alot smarter than most who post here taking the piss out of him