uk visit visa refusal letter

[rasg]

So her only income is the money you send? The refusal letter reads a bit differently.

 

If that is the case how did she live financially before you met?

[darren1971]

6 minutes ago, rasg said:

So her only income is the money you send? The refusal letter reads a bit differently.

 

If that is the case how did she live financially before you met?

her brother and sister go to work and pay for most of the family outgoings, my GF helped by looking after their mother and her Brothers children, she also sold a few surplus veggies at the market. She is very poor, left school with no education, in her words she's 'baan nok' - poor country girl

[bobrussell]

Unfortunately this all does little to provide evidence that the applicant will return. Wealth is not that important to getting a visit visa (although it helps!). It may be a little more history of commitment from you (including financial) might tip the balance in time. 

[darren1971]

1 minute ago, bobrussell said:

Unfortunately this all does little to provide evidence that the applicant will return. Wealth is not that important to getting a visit visa (although it helps!). It may be a little more history of commitment from you (including financial) might tip the balance in time. 

yes I know, I think we will get married and go the settlement route and try another visit visa whilst that is being put together.

[NCFC]

You said that you met online in badoo.com  How did you manage to communicate with your gf?

[darren1971]

4 hours ago, NCFC said:

You said that you met online in badoo.com  How did you manage to communicate with your gf?

She had a boyfriend before who she lived with for 18 months in Thailand and I speak fairly good Thai having spent 3 months a year in Thailand since 2011. I also had a Thai gf from Bangkok who had lived with me for 11 months in the UK on 2 tourist visas, this was noted by the ECO in the phone interview with my current gf but not in the refusal letter.

Edited July 21, 2017 by darren1971

[stubuzz]

13 hours ago, darren1971 said:

I returned again in July 2016 for a further month and we stayed the whole month together

 

13 hours ago, darren1971 said:

Since then I have returned on 3 more 1 month trips (November 2016, March 2017, June 2017) and we have travelled to Chiang Mai, Thaton, Chiang Dao, Phuket and Bangkok together. On my last trip in March 2017 I asked

 

13 hours ago, darren1971 said:

XXXXXX did not have any work and lives at home where she is needed to help her Mother and look after her siblings.

The month long trips show that she is not needed at home.

[stubuzz]

1 hour ago, darren1971 said:

I also had a Thai gf from Bangkok who had lived with me for 11 months in the UK on 2 tourist visas

Did you say that the your x gf was going to stay that long on the visa applications?

[darren1971]

Just now, stubuzz said:

Did you say that the your x gf was going to stay that long on the visa applications?

Yes, she stayed in the UK for the exact dates we stated in the supporting documents and application. We didn't break any rules of the visas granted, and my current gf's application should not be judged on anyone else's previous applications even if I am the sponsor in both.

[OmarZaid]

Marry her ... problem solved ... stop playing games !

[darren1971]

2 hours ago, stubuzz said:

 

 

The month long trips show that she is not needed at home.

was not an issue to the ECO or he would have mentioned it.

[darren1971]

3 minutes ago, OmarZaid said:

Marry her ... problem solved ... stop playing games !

Yes, that is what we are doing and was our plan anyway. Never was playing games but just thought it sensible for her to see her future home before deciding with settlement, the UK is not to everyones taste.

[ALotHappier]

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The lack of financial assets is more of a deciding factor than the age difference.

''You state you spend 8000THB a month on living costs and you are planning to spend 10000THB on this proposed visit. You state your UK sponsor will contribute £1750 towards the cost of this trip. You have included a letter from your sponsor in which he states he will sponsor you during your time in the UK,'' <-- depending on how long they intended to stay in the uk, 300 usd buys you a few meals... maybe thats why..

[darren1971]

6 minutes ago, ALotHappier said:

''You state you spend 8000THB a month on living costs and you are planning to spend 10000THB on this proposed visit. You state your UK sponsor will contribute £1750 towards the cost of this trip. You have included a letter from your sponsor in which he states he will sponsor you during your time in the UK,'' <-- depending on how long they intended to stay in the uk, 300 usd buys you a few meals... maybe thats why..

not why or the ECO would have mentioned it. We clearly state she will be staying at my home so no cost for accommodation etc, the £1750 is to cover the cost of her flight, any shopping she wishes to do and for trips. The ECO even states in the refusal that there is adequate funds..

[ALotHappier]

19 hours ago, darren1971 said:

although I acknowledge he has the means to do so, in assessing your application I must be satisfied that you will leave the UK at the end of your visit. You are financially dependent on your sponsor and the information you have provided do (their typo again) not demonstrate strong economic ties to Thailand.

They stated that YOU HAVE THE MEANS TO SUPPORT HER. Not that she is arriving with adequate funds, They also acknowledge that she is financially dependent on YOU, meaning that she has nothing other than 300 USD for HERSELF... This is what they must be focusing on, because although you are her SPONSOR, it might help if you can show she can support HERSELF too, by virtue of having money in her own account, to show the UK government that she is also self sufficient, and that she has a boyfriend who can take reign of things once her funds finish. Its a shame they turn a blind eye to those who come in the UK and live off of taxpayers money, but shun those who have legitimate means of supporting themselves.

 

Regarding the 'No strong economic ties to Thailand' part... Do you mind me asking if she has any assets? Condo, House, Car, even Motorbikes?

Any dependents? 

They need a reason for her to come back over here..

 

I am talking from the experience of having two rejection letters quite similar to the one you have so kindly posted for everyone to see, on the third attempt I wrote out pound for pound how much money she would spend, and then I proceeded to put double the amount in her account every month, i.e, put it in, take it out, repeat.. to show a substantial inflow of funds, then made the request again and was accepted.

 

At the time she was my girlfriend, living with me, unemployed and taking care of our son, she is now my wife, still unemployed, taking care of our son, and two daughters.

 

I wish you all the best on your application, just don't give up! 

Edited July 21, 2017 by ALotHappier

[wanderluster]

very easy. put a minimum of 100k baht in her bank account for a min of 6 months and almost certain she will get a visa.

and if you cant trust her with the 100k then why should the english goverment.

[darren1971]

1 minute ago, wanderluster said:

very easy. put a minimum of 100k baht in her bank account for a min of 6 months and almost certain she will get a visa.

and if you cant trust her with the 100k then why should the english goverment.

padding the applicants bank account is generally frowned upon by ECO's, she would have to explain where the money came from and the answer would be from me, which the ECO has already raised as a concern, it does not give her anymore economic ties to Thailand only to me. As I have stated we are getting married so my trust of her is not an issue.

[wanderluster]

6 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

padding the applicants bank account is generally frowned upon by ECO's, she would have to explain where the money came from and the answer would be from me, which the ECO has already raised as a concern, it does not give her anymore economic ties to Thailand only to me. As I have stated we are getting married so my trust of her is not an issue.

maybe i should have stated that this was what i did yrs ago. and it seems to be 1 of the 3 most looked at docs. the other 2 being return airfare and accomodation.  in the last 5 yrs she has got a multi yr canadian multi yr american 30 day england 3x euro shenzen. and a china but that does not count.

never been denyed.

 

the idea being that if you were to get into an argument like many couples do, that she has enough money of her own to be able to support herself.

[rasg]

3 minutes ago, ALotHappier said:

They stated that YOU HAVE THE MEANS TO SUPPORT HER. Not that she is arriving with adequate funds, They also acknowledge that she is financially dependent on YOU, meaning that she has nothing other than 300 USD for HERSELF... This is what they must be focusing on, because although you are her SPONSOR, it might help if you can show she can support HERSELF too, by virtue of having money in her own account, to show the UK government that she is also self sufficient, and that she has a boyfriend who can take reign of things once her funds finish. Its a shame they turn a blind eye to those who come in the UK and live off of taxpayers money, but shun those who have legitimate means of supporting themselves.

You are way off here on this one.

 

When I brought my GF here on her first visit visa I explained that she had no money to bring here and I would be funding the trip BUT she had a job to go home to and her son and family. Because the the OP has been funding her because she has no real money of her own the ECO believes that, rather than having good reasons to go home, she has reasons to simply stay in the UK. Her source of funds lives in the UK.

 

Supporting yourself generally means having a job and stuffing money into a GF's bank account the way you are suggesting is a big red flag to UKVI if they pick up on it. It's also something, if you speak to many Thai women thinking of coming here, a legitimate way of getting a visa and it actually has the opposite effect.

[darren1971]

1 minute ago, wanderluster said:

maybe i should have stated that this was what i did yrs ago. and it seems to be 1 of the 3 most looked at docs. the other 2 being return airfare and accomodation.  in the last 5 yrs she has got a multi yr canadian multi yr american 30 day england 3x euro shenzen. and a china but that does not count.

never been denyed.

 

the idea being that if you were to get into an argument like many couples do, that she has enough money of her own to be able to support herself.

As sponsor I am responsible for any costs that would occur during her stay in the UK anyway, without a return air ticket she would likely be refused entry at the border even with a valid visa. All applications are judged on their own merits but in this case the ECO is clear that the lack of economic ties to Thailand and our reason for my GF to return to Thailand were the problems. As we planned to marry anyway we can just deal with these by going for the settlement visa next. I think once the first visa has been granted and the applicant returned then future applications are much more likely to  succeed, very hard for the ECO to say they wont return when they have already demonstrated that they will

[rasg]

7 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

As we planned to marry anyway we can just deal with these by going for the settlement visa next. I think once the first visa has been granted and the applicant returned then future applications are much more likely to  succeed, very hard for the ECO to say they wont return when they have already demonstrated that they will

You are absolutely right on this. Getting that first VV is the trick. My wife was fortunate to get hers without an issue. When she first landed at Heathrow she was grilled for 45 minutes. Seems to be a rite of passage. Her second trip she was asked how long she had stayed before and waved through with lots of smiles from immigration. Now they barely look at her paperwork.

 

13 minutes ago, wanderluster said:

maybe i should have stated that this was what i did yrs ago. and it seems to be 1 of the 3 most looked at docs. the other 2 being return airfare and accomodation.  in the last 5 yrs she has got a multi yr canadian multi yr american 30 day england 3x euro shenzen. and a china but that does not count.

never been denyed.

 

the idea being that if you were to get into an argument like many couples do, that she has enough money of her own to be able to support herself.

You said yourself that this was a while back and things have changed quite a bit. Where did you get the idea for your last sentence? My now wife came here with a £100 that I sent her so she had enough for emergencies, a hotel in Bangkok if she missed her flight etc.

Edited July 21, 2017 by rasg

[Jip99]

A return flight is not necessary.

 

 

However, it is wise to cover potential issues with an airline at check in and U.K. Immigration at the point of entry.

 

There are several reasons why you might not have a return flight.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Jip99

[darren1971]

2 minutes ago, rasg said:

You are absolutely right on this. Getting that first VV is the trick. My wife was fortunate to get hers without an issue. When she first landed at Heathrow she was grilled for 45 minutes. Seems to be a rite of passage. Her second trip she was asked how long she had stayed before and waved through with lots of smiles from immigration. Now they barely look at her paperwork.

exactly what happened with my first GF, she didn't enjoy the grilling at all because her English was not as strong as my current GF. The plan was always to do a single visit visa then settlement anyway so sometimes you have to accept doing things in a different order than you had hoped.

[rasg]

My wife was never asked to show a return ticket or travel insurance but she had both with her just in case. She was also primed for any questions that might have been asked. Especially those about work, my full name and address etc. Immigration have all of the info used to get the  visa on their computer system and can ask anything from it. I also made sure that she had a UK sim to pop in her phone so she could call me if she needed to to let me know what was going on. It was a long 45 minutes when she first arrived...

[7by7]

19 hours ago, darren1971 said:

yep, essentially what I gave them. I think we will bring our marriage plans forward and apply again for a visit visa after married. I would go straight for settlement then but I am having to reorganise how I pay myself to obtain the right income documents - that will take 6 months so no harm trying again for a visit visa whilst that is ongoing.

Make it clear in the application that this is the reason she is applying for a visit visa instead of settlement and, as said previously, she will return to Thailand in order to apply for settlement at the end of her visit.

[7by7]

24 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

A return flight is not necessary.

 

 

However, it is wise to cover potential issues with an airline at check in and U.K. Immigration at the point of entry.

 

There are several reasons why you might not have a return flight.

 

It is true that visitors entering the UK are not required to have a return or onward ticket.

 

However, on arrival at their UK port of entry they may be asked by UK Border Force to produce either such a ticket or evidence that they have the means with which to purchase one. If they fail to do one or the other they will be refused entry.

 

Because of this, it is possible that the airline will refuse to board them onto their flight to the UK if they do not have such a ticket.

[English Engineer]

Yes it is possible that another IO may have a different view and grant the visa. In my opinion this is doudtful as looking coldly at her situation she has little reason to return to Thailand and every reason to overstay. This is the sticking point and some how needs to be addressed. 

 

Regarding the settlement visa, there is now an increasing need to demonstrate the relationship is genuine. Too many sham marriages. So you would need to marry but ideally take some time before applying for the visa and building up some evidence that the relationship is genuine.

 

I have the guidance documents for IOs and there are some ground rules but still much left to the discretion of the IO. 

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, English Engineer said:

I have the guidance documents for IOs and there are some ground rules but still much left to the discretion of the IO. 

That guidance is easily available to the general public who search for it; but a link would have been helpful for those members who may wish to read it!

 

For the latest version, see Visit guidance Version 6.0,  published for Home Office staff on 14 June 2017.

 

 

[English Engineer]

Sorry forgot to give the link

 

www.freemovement.org.uk/immigration

[catman20]

1 hour ago, wanderluster said:

very easy. put a minimum of 100k baht in her bank account for a min of 6 months and almost certain she will get a visa.

and if you cant trust her with the 100k then why should the english goverment.

i did that but with 200,000 but was only in the couple of months i thought only being a couple of months that they would see what i was doing but it was not a problem and got the visa.