Trump loudly insists both sides to blame for Virginia violence

[webfact]

Trump loudly insists both sides to blame for Virginia violence

By Jeff Mason

 

U.S. President Donald Trump answers questions about his response to the events in Charlottesville as he talks to the media in the lobby of Trump Tower in Manhattan, New York, U.S., August 15, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump loudly insisted on Tuesday that both left- and right-wing groups used force in the aftermath of a white supremacist rally and that all of the facts were not yet in about street clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia.

 

Trump, taking questions from reporters in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York, reverted to his initial comments on Saturday blaming "many sides" for the violence, but on Monday had explicitly condemned the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups.

 

"They came at each other with clubs ... it was a horrible thing to watch," Trump told reporters at what was supposed to be an announcement and news conference on his administration's infrastructure policy. He said left-wing protesters "came violently attacking the other group."

 

Trump has faced a storm of criticism from Democrats and members of his own Republican Party over his initial response to the violence around the rally in the Southern college town of Charlottesville. His remarks on Tuesday began a new round of outrage.

 

"Blaming 'both sides' for #Charlottesville?! No. Back to relativism when dealing with KKK, Nazi sympathizers, white supremacists? Just no," Republican Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said on Twitter.

 

White supremacists in the United States have been emboldened by the election of Trump. His campaign last year drew their support and that of other right-wing groups, despite his disavowals of them.

 

"Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa," former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke wrote on Twitter after Trump's latest remarks, referring to Black Lives Matter (BLM) and anti-facists.

 

Saturday's violence erupted after hundreds of white nationalists converged in Charlottesville to protest plans to remove a statue of General Robert E. Lee, commander of the pro-slavery Confederate army in the U.S. Civil War.

 

In his remarks, Trump sympathized with protesters who opposed removing the Robert E. Lee statue in Charlottesville, but offered no equivalent remarks for those who favoured its removal.

 

"You had people in that group ... that were there to protest the taking down of a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

 

Trump grouped former presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who fought to create the United States, together as "slave owners," with southern leaders Lee, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson.

 

"Was George Washington a slave owner? Will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? ... Because he was a major slave owner," Trump said.

 

In Virginia, street brawls broke out as the white nationalists were met by crowds of anti-racism demonstrators. A car then ploughed into a group of the counter-protesters, killing one woman and injuring 19 others. A 20-year-old Ohio man, James Fields, said to have harboured Nazi sympathies, was charged with murder, malicious wounding and leaving the scene of a fatal accident.

 

On Tuesday, Trump explained his initial restrained response by saying: "The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement, but you don't make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts."

 

In a sometimes heated exchange with reporters shouting questions, Trump said, "You also had people that were very fine people on both sides."

 

He said that while neo-Nazis and white nationalists "should be condemned totally," Trump said protesters in the other group "also had trouble-makers. And you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You got a lot of bad people in the other group too."

 

(Reporting by Jeff Mason in New York, Susan Heavey in Washington and Scott Malone in Charlottesville, Virginia; Writing by Grant McCool; Editing by Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-16

[CaptHaddock]

President Trump is rich white trash.

[Jingthing]

It appears that General Kelly is not able to control the baby man president. Nobody should be surprised. He'll never change and he'll never be tempered. Clear minded people, especially any republicans that have any amount of decency, should now realize ... the only solution to this is to find a way to remove the mistake from office. 

 

If this madness continues, it's also clear he'll never be a legitimate leader to all the United States. Only his  base. His ever shrinking base. More and more deplorable / despicable by the day. 

 

This is a national crisis with international implications. It's a true test of the American system. So far, it's failing. 

 

 

Quote

 

Trump made it clear: He sides with the alt-right in Charlottesville

The president tried to argue that his initial statement on Saturday accused both sides of being at fault because he wasn’t aware of the full facts. But then he defended the aims of the original protest and compared George Washington to Robert E. Lee in the process.

 

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/08/15/trump-puts-a-fine-point-on-it-he-sides-with-the-alt-right-in-charlottesville/

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Jingthing

[Samui Bodoh]

Dear Mr Trump

 

When one side has Nazis and White Supremacists and the other doesn't, they are not morally equal.

 

God help us all

[Jingthing]

I think Charlottesville and the aftermath might define the (hopefully short) trump presidency. In the eyes of the majority of the public. He owns this whether he wants to blame Obama and "Chicago" (code for blacks) and "fake news" on it or not. 

 

The situation is beyond political repair that might be available to normal politician. He's come out of the closet now for what he is. There is no going back in the closet. The question of course, is what next? 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Jingthing

[darksidedog]

We should probably have expected this. After all, Donald is never wrong, at least in his own mind anyway. Showing his stupidity, he drags the subject back up, and simply digs a bigger hole for himself, proving beyond doubt of all but the totally insane, that America has made a terrible mistake and that he is not remotely close to being fit for the office. I hope this is the beginning of the end. This farce has gone on way too long already.

[Chou Anou]

[mtls2005]

Wow, that was a train wreck.

 

Did he watch a lot "Dragnet" before this event? ("Just the facts.")

 

Just when you think he can't get any farther off the rails he surprises us.

[Thechook]

1 hour ago, CaptHaddock said:

President Trump is rich white trash.

Extremely racist, what if a black guy was referred to as black trash

[FreddieRoyle]

All I saw is a heavily armed group of liberals spoiling for a fight (without neccessary permits) and coming off worse, then screaming blue murder about it all. They should take stock of the situation, and make an effort to protest peacefully and legally in the future. It's not as if they don't have a habit of violent behavior - just look at the Berkeley riots against free speech where they assaulted and burnt anything and everything in their path.

 Trump is exactly right, all sides here must share the blame. Not sure why this is such a difficult message for some to swallow?

[selftaopath]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

republicans that have any amount of decency,

I doubt there are enough of these relics to make a difference. 45 is in the process of destroying democracy and decency.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, selftaopath said:

I doubt there are enough of these relics to make a difference. 45 is in the process of destroying democracy and decency.

Probably not enough. 

[mtls2005]

1 minute ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Trump is exactly right

 

Sorry, was he "exactly right" on Saturday, Monday or Tuesday?

 

And where did you "see" this group of heavily armed liberals? I think most Americans missed that?

[FreddieRoyle]

1 minute ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Sorry, was he "exactly right" on Saturday, Monday or Tuesday?

 

And where did you "see" this group of heavily armed liberals? I think most Americans missed that?

This was covered to death in the other thread, with photos showing more liberal baseball bats than a day at Wrigley field

[Jingthing]

So it's down to this.

Decent Americans against white supremacists / fascists / Nazis and their good old buddy with the nuclear codes, the clown potus.

 

The fight is on. 

The outcome is unknown.

 

Quote

There is a moral vacuum at the head of the republic.

...

When faced with blatant evil Trump has shown he is a leader with no moral sense.

...

Nazis are Nazis President Trump, and those who support them are collaborators. Stand against them or stand aside.

 

 

http://forward.com/opinion/editorial/380093/for-shame/

Edited August 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[tonray]

As much as I despise Trump and what he stands for, the reality of the situation was that 2 groups met with the intention of doing harm to each other. I think Trump certainly sympathizes with the alt-right and begrudgingly makes statement about KKK and Nazis, but there is some blame to go around here.

 

Just because you find the ideology of one of the groups abhorrent and disgusting, does not mean that automatically they get to take all the blame.  The First Amendment gives a wide birth to publicly expressing your views  which of course ends at physical altercation, but just because you disagree with scumbags holding racist banners does not mean they were the only ones in the wrong.

 

Flame away. Just telling it like it is.

[boomerangutang]

I acknowledge that there are many screwball rednecks hugging their guns and itching for confrontation, I nevertheless am in favor of keeping the Lee statue in the park.  The history he was involved in was 160 years ago.  It happened.  He was a general for the side that lost.   All around the world there are statues of army heads who, if they're looked at critically, could be seen as out-of-step with current social norms.

 

If youngsters today study history, they may be more likely to avoid the mistakes of past generations.  If unpleasant history is erased, ....that's another story.  Trump should hone-up on history, and he might then be less of a hot-head re; N.Korea stand off.

 

Incidentally, when Trump gets dropkicked out of the WH, those same rednecks will mobilize, and it will make Charlottesville look tame in comparison.

[WaywardWind]

11 minutes ago, tonray said:

As much as I despise Trump and what he stands for, the reality of the situation was that 2 groups met with the intention of doing harm to each other. I think Trump certainly sympathizes with the alt-right and begrudgingly makes statement about KKK and Nazis, but there is some blame to go around here.

 

Just because you find the ideology of one of the groups abhorrent and disgusting, does not mean that automatically they get to take all the blame.  The First Amendment gives a wide birth to publicly expressing your views  which of course ends at physical altercation, but just because you disagree with scumbags holding racist banners does not mean they were the only ones in the wrong.

 

Flame away. Just telling it like it is.

The First Amendment protects speech from government sourced/sponsored suppression. Nothing more.

 

It does not protect anyone from having their remarks challenged, even suppressed, by others who are not connected with government.

 

If government officials are not involved, then there is no First Amendment application.

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

The First Amendment protects speech from government sourced/sponsored suppression. Nothing more.

 

It does not protect anyone from having their remarks challenged, even suppressed, by others who are not connected with government.

 

If government officials are not involved, then there is no First Amendment application.

Only if they choose to suppress said speech with alternate speech. The law does not protect using violence or threats of violence to suppress the views of others.

[WaywardWind]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It appears that General Kelly is not able to control the baby man president. Nobody should be surprised. He'll never change and he'll never be tempered. Clear minded people, especially any republicans that have any amount of decency, should now realize ... the only solution to this is to find a way to remove the mistake from office.

As much as I detest Trump, I somewhat hope that we are able to muddle trough to 2020 (without getting nuked) rather than have him removed by impeachment, which would leave us with Pence, who is equally as dangerous, just not given to outrageous conduct and statements.

[mtls2005]

[WaywardWind]

4 minutes ago, tonray said:

Only if they choose to suppress said speech with alternate speech. The law does not protect using violence or threats of violence to suppress the views of others.

Correct.

 

The old legal saying: Your rights end where my nose begins.

 

Violence is a criminal issue, not a constitutional one.

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

"He broke a General."

 

 

[FreddieRoyle]

Just now, mtls2005 said:

 

Yeah, right.

 

Where have you seen this "hypothesis"?

 

 

Ask yourself, how many vehicular assaults had the driver braking before impact?

[mtls2005]

[Chou Anou]

[mtls2005]

^ Without a "permit" from France.

 

The faux Trump tweet denouncing "both sides" for the D-Day invasion is pretty funny.

 

 

[Dave67]

Every time I see a picture of Trump the words "Dangerous Buffoon" come into my head

[Briggsy]

Trump spinning this one out for as long as he can, using one of his standard tricks, contradictory statements, to keep his dodgy deals with Russian organised crime bosses out of the headlines.

 

It is what happens in the shadows that is most important.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, FreddieRoyle said:

All I saw is a heavily armed group of liberals spoiling for a fight (without neccessary permits) and coming off worse, then screaming blue murder about it all. They should take stock of the situation, and make an effort to protest peacefully and legally in the future. It's not as if they don't have a habit of violent behavior - just look at the Berkeley riots against free speech where they assaulted and burnt anything and everything in their path.

 Trump is exactly right, all sides here must share the blame. Not sure why this is such a difficult message for some to swallow?

As you described  heavily armed supremacists in paramilitary apparel , with permits

screaming blue muder 

They should take stock of the situation, and make an effort to protest peacefully and legally 

 Trump is exactly right, all sides here must share the blame