Acrimonious Divorce

[MyFriend You]

You live in Hua Hin, and so does she, the last place you want to get a lawyer is Hua Hin!!  Because they all know each other and collude to get the best deal for THEM, not the divorcees.  Get a lawyer from Bangkok,   next time you show up at the table with your 'Outsider' they will take note.  I also know that "Siam legal services" has a pretty good reputation and is known to be a 'Fuhlung Friendly' law sevice.

 

Also as someone else said - 1 Million Baht may not be as high as you think - all depends on how much is at stake - if we are talking 20-50 Million baht worth of assets.  Just make sure its in the contract "No settlement, no pay"

 

You could also call her bluff, and just say - "No, I am not getting a divorce", she if she has the tenacity to 'hang in there'   With Thai's, it's all about Money, Money, Money - nothing else is more important than Money.  Or you could always burn your house down with everything in it and just leave country.  Its your Call!!! 

[MyFriend You]

21 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Where does this "ballpark figure" originate from?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Thai Visa Forum??

[MyFriend You]

14 hours ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

You sound like a nice chap

He may be smarter than you think - don't you remember the "Four F's" rule??   find em, feel em, eff em,  and forget em??

[sawadeeken]

22 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Not unheard of that Thai women marry Farang for financial gains.That has gotta be the understatment of the year.A ballpark figure would be somewhere between 70 and 90 % of sao Thai/Farang relationships are based solely or to a significant extent on financial consideration. 

And not just limited to Thai women........... Just ask 'Trumps' wife......................

Farangs have money (supposedly) and money is 'security' and 'opportunity' and 'comfort', and the alternative is.... Thai men.....     What would any woman with much sense choose????

Edited to add..... Certainly there are 'good Thai men'    I'm just speaking on average.....

[thecyclist]

23 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Where does this "ballpark figure" originate from?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Decades in Thailand meeting hundreds of resident Farang and hearing about their travails in the 'love market', observing the Thais love of money, surpassed maybe only by the Chinese, but they are willing to work for it. The Thais want the money without the toil. There are ,of course, many 'unthai ' Thais that break the mold and with whom you can have genuine relationship,but for some reason most Farang seem to have a knack for falling for the golddiggers.

[davidst01]

On 8/20/2017 at 1:34 PM, thecyclist said:

Not unheard of that Thai women marry Farang for financial gains.That has gotta be the understatment of the year.A ballpark figure would be somewhere between 70 and 90 % of sao Thai/Farang relationships are based solely or to a significant extent on financial consideration. 

ballpark figure based on what exactly?? If you going to quote facts and figures please give us your source!

[Zikomat]

15 hours ago, ericthai said:

watch out for the lawyers, most are no good.  My friend has an issue that a shop sold his motorcycle while he was on an oil rig working. He hired a lawyer via a Thai friend and had to pay 600,000B up front. After he paid the lawyer he was never able to get in contact with the lawyer again. Would not accept phone calls, not in the office when he went there. Etc.  Be very careful of the lawyer you use.

 

 

What was the value of that motorcycle if he was ready to pay 600 k to the lawyer + upfront?

[Zikomat]

2 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Decades in Thailand meeting hundreds of resident Farang and hearing about their travails in the 'love market', observing the Thais love of money, surpassed maybe only by the Chinese, but they are willing to work for it. The Thais want the money without the toil. There are ,of course, many 'unthai ' Thais that break the mold and with whom you can have genuine relationship,but for some reason most Farang seem to have a knack for falling for the golddiggers.

Golddiggers? What else should one expect marrying somebody 20-50 years younger than him?

 We cannot know from the OP's story all the details. My guess is it was a normal relationship which lasted for 9 years which got broken one day. Happens all over the world. Should we assume that there was a bad intention right from the beginning whenever somebody are getting divorced in Europe or USA?  Don't think so. But why this assumption is always automatically applied when we talk about Thai wives?

[thecyclist]

2 hours ago, davidst01 said:

ballpark figure based on what exactly?? If you going to quote facts and figures please give us your source!

Jesus Christ, David : what do u want me to do : Get a team of sociologists and psychologists from Chulalongkhorn to do 10 year longitudinal study with in-depth interviews, polygraph tests to get some objective data on the genuineness of love and affection of Thai women that tie the knot with Farangs .

[Sydebolle]

13 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

It does apply to land. There is no exception in Thai divorce law for real estate.

 

Trust me, land is not a part of the common asset basket in a divorce, if one party is non-Thai. Some land offices even insist that the non-Thai partner signs a non-claimer prior to transfer land, and it applies only to land, not to houses and/or condominiums in the 49% non-Thai quota. 

If both parties are Thai then the usual 50%/50% applies like most other countries. Here again only assets, which were generated/earned during the marriage, are shareable. Whatever the partners had prior to the marriage as well as inheritances are NOT up for discussion. 

[blackcab]

16 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Trust me, land is not a part of the common asset basket in a divorce, if one party is non-Thai.

 

I'm sorry to have to ask you, but could you give me a reference to the particular part of Thai law that confirms your assertion please?

 

I work with Thai real estate and Thai real estate law on a daily basis, and I don't recognise what you are saying.

[TKDfella]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

I'm sorry to have to ask you, but could you give me a reference to the particular part of Thai law that confirms your assertion please?

 

I work with Thai real estate and Thai real estate law on a daily basis, and I don't recognise what you are saying.

I agree...in fact I read in 'Thai for Foreigners' that even land assets abroad during the marriage might also be considered by the court. Now that would take a hell of time to set let alone any actions and all the time the lawyers are being paid.  

[Sydebolle]

15 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

I'm sorry to have to ask you, but could you give me a reference to the particular part of Thai law that confirms your assertion please?

 

I work with Thai real estate and Thai real estate law on a daily basis, and I don't recognise what you are saying.

 

Check with the Land department (กรมที่ดิน). I'm a permanent resident for more than 30 years and never took up Thai citizenship for some another reason and recently purchased some land in the name of my wife.
I had to show up at the Land Department and sign forms that I would not put any claim forward in case of divorce. In case of her death I would inherit the land but would have to dispose of within 180 days. So spoken at the Land Department at Theppasit Soi 8/Third Road Soi 17 in Pattaya. Now please do not ask me based on which laws that happened because I do not have a problem with signing such forms after decades of a very happy marriage. 

For everything else, i.e. a binding, legal and concluding answer to your question, consult a professional lawyer in Bangkok. Without having signed such forms it might be possible to put a claim forward which would force the Thai partner to either compensate the foreign spouse with 50% of the money or the latter would have to even sell it off to satisfy the monetary claim. The land, however, is not transferable into a non-Thai name. 

Hope that helps. 

[sead]

None can stop you from burning down your house or car lol.

[DoneTravelling]

I thank you all for (most) of the invaluable comments given and PM's received. I never thought my post would get so many comments. 

I am collating everything and considering all options before I take any further steps.

As for the land I have never said that I would take ownership as that cannot be done under Thai law, I stated it is a communal asset and is to be sold and the proceeds divided upon divorce. All 3 lawyers I have dealt with have said that the land forms part of the assets. It will be sold and the funds split.

The following is the Family Marriage Law in English for those that are interested.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-family-marriage-laws.html

 

Once again, many thanks to all.

 

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

 

Check with the Land department (กรมที่ดิน). I'm a permanent resident for more than 30 years and never took up Thai citizenship for some another reason and recently purchased some land in the name of my wife.
I had to show up at the Land Department and sign forms that I would not put any claim forward in case of divorce. In case of her death I would inherit the land but would have to dispose of within 180 days. So spoken at the Land Department at Theppasit Soi 8/Third Road Soi 17 in Pattaya. Now please do not ask me based on which laws that happened because I do not have a problem with signing such forms after decades of a very happy marriage. 

For everything else, i.e. a binding, legal and concluding answer to your question, consult a professional lawyer in Bangkok. Without having signed such forms it might be possible to put a claim forward which would force the Thai partner to either compensate the foreign spouse with 50% of the money or the latter would have to even sell it off to satisfy the monetary claim. The land, however, is not transferable into a non-Thai name. 

Hope that helps. 

 

You are conflating what happens at the Land Office and what happens in Court.

 

I agree that foreign husbands must sign a disclaimer at the Land Office if their wife purchases land. The disclaimer states that the non Thai husband has no claim or interest in the land, and that the land is the sole property of his wife.

 

However, this form is disregarded in Thai divorce Courts if a full and proper claim is made. The law is very clear about this point: There is no exception for land aquired as joint property during a marriage. Such jointly acquired land becomes part of the joint assets that will be divided by the Court, regardless of the form signed at the Land Office.

 

This is because a contract, even if signed willingly, cannot supersede statute law.

 

As a side note, a foreigner has 1 year, not 180 days, to dispose of land bequeathed to them.

[DoneTravelling]

@ Blackcab: Totally agree, everything acquired during the course of the marriage is Sin Somros, except gifts like jewelry etc.

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, DoneTravelling said:

@ Blackcab: Totally agree, everything acquired during the course of the marriage is Sin Somros, except gifts like jewelry etc.

 

Land can be a gift also, if the person who gives the land declares it to be a gift at the point of transfer.

 

The Court is not bound by such a declaration, but would inevitably take it into consideration.

[thaibeachlovers]

The legal aspects appear to have been well presented, so I will not delve into that. I can only compare your situation to mine for advice, up to you to take or not.

 

While it may be cruel to say, IMO you made every mistake possible to make, buying her a house, paying for family education , cars etc.

While I lost all the household items like fridges etc, I had not and would not ever have given a satang to the family if I could avoid it, so my loss is as nothing compared to yours.

Are you feeling bad because the family/ your wife are not grateful for what you did? In my experience, they just don't care, though not doing so would have put your wife in the bad books, like mine was, for not getting money out of you for them. Gratitude is just not something they possess.

 

I walked out and accepted the loss, because a/ I knew I would not be able to get anything back on it, b/ I feared for my life if I didn't leave.

You say you are living in the same house, but with the doors locked- my advice for what it's worth is to get out asap. Live nearby if necessary, but not in that house.

 

From much reading on TVF IMO once in the Thai legal system, it can all go terribly wrong. The Brit in Phuket is a classic case.

 

So, IMO you have a choice to let her have it all in exchange for a quickie divorce, or take your chances in the legal system.

I'm glad I did the former, as I have got on with my life, and while it has put me off forever from getting married again, I'd rather be done with it than dragging it out.

You also have the option of just abandoning her, and letting the courts divorce you after the requisite time. Had my wife not gone with the quicky divorce that's what I'd have done. Way too freaky to hang around. I think I was lucky to get out alive, or at least with some money.

[ericthai]

On 8/20/2017 at 2:42 PM, manarak said:

from what planet is your friend? 600k upfront? lol.

sorry that was a typo should be 200K, I dont know any lawyers that dont require upfront payment.

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, ericthai said:

sorry that was a typo should be 200K, I dont know any lawyers that dont require upfront payment.

I do.

[davidst01]

On 8/22/2017 at 10:27 AM, sead said:

None can stop you from burning down your house or car lol.

Except that the house will be in a Thai persons name because farang cannot have it in their name. After lighting the match you are then subjected to the harsh 'arson' laws in Thailand. Expect a prison sentence  and subsequent deportation. 

[Bangkok Barry]

1 minute ago, davidst01 said:

Except that the house will be in a Thai persons name because farang cannot have it in their name. After lighting the match you are then subjected to the harsh 'arson' laws in Thailand. Expect a prison sentence  and subsequent deportation. 

 

If they can prove you did it.

 

[thecyclist]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

If they can prove you did it.

 

If a Burmese or Farang is around the scene of the crime that will be a forgone conclusion for the Thai courts

[blackcab]

@thaibeachlovers There is a middle ground you know. I told my wife that if we split up I'm never going to divorce her.

 

That way I can't get married again.

[edwardflory]

A house is PORTABLE under Thai Law AND can be OWNED by a foreigner, it's the land / Thai earth that can not be owned

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[JohnLick]

On 21/08/2017 at 4:21 PM, Zikomat said:

What was the value of that motorcycle if he was ready to pay 600 k to the lawyer + upfront?

Vintage Honda Click 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, edwardflory said:

A house is PORTABLE under Thai Law AND can be OWNED by a foreigner, it's the land / Thai earth that can not be owned

Sent from my ASUS_X00AD using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Good luck moving a house then.

I had to leave all my kitchen appliances and fridges as I had nowhere to put them.

[ericthai]

On 8/24/2017 at 0:00 AM, davidst01 said:

Except that the house will be in a Thai persons name because farang cannot have it in their name. After lighting the match you are then subjected to the harsh 'arson' laws in Thailand. Expect a prison sentence  and subsequent deportation. 

actually an ex-pat can own a house just like they can own a condo. The issue is the land.

[DoneTravelling]

I have never heard of any foreigner who has a house in their own personal name. I am not saying it is not possible, just I have never heard of anyone doing that and the lawyers I have dealt with have all said I would need to establish a limited company in which to register the property, and this is no longer possible in Prachuap Khirkhan