Thailand's former PM Thaksin breaks silence on Twitter

[halloween]

7 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Yes of course as any fule knos the EC is sea green incorruptible and applies electoral law equally to all sides, and without fear or favour.The fact it tolerated benignly PDRC thugs violent campaign to halt polling is one of many porkies those in the pay of Thaksin have put about.

 

I await your pm as I am putting a reading list together for you.

When you get it together, put it where the sun doesn't shine. Is it discriminatory to not want convicted criminals and others facing serious charges included amongst those governing the country? Perhaps calling TRT out for offering bribes was discriminatory too. In fact any law will be discriminatory if you are intending to break it.

[chainarong]

On ‎30‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 2:58 PM, greenchair said:

Well said. 

And absolute power breeds absolute corruption as we will see in the years to come. 

Quite so and what was the little tryants comment midweek , i can do what I like , speaks for itself really.

[jayboy]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

When you get it together, put it where the sun doesn't shine. Is it discriminatory to not want convicted criminals and others facing serious charges included amongst those governing the country? Perhaps calling TRT out for offering bribes was discriminatory too. In fact any law will be discriminatory if you are intending to break it.

We can discuss further when you have absorbed my initial recommendations.There may be an informal test before we move on to more challenging material.Can you send me a summary of your educational background so I can pitch your study at the right level.

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, jayboy said:

We can discuss further when you have absorbed my initial recommendations.There may be an informal test before we move on to more challenging material.Can you send me a summary of your educational background so I can pitch your study at the right level.

Difficult isn't it when the perceived lower classes poke holes in your theories.  Well you just keep making your BS claims and I'll keep on contradicting them, refusing to accept that popularity over-rides the law, or absolves criminal acts.

[jayboy]

25 minutes ago, halloween said:

Difficult isn't it when the perceived lower classes poke holes in your theories.  Well you just keep making your BS claims and I'll keep on contradicting them, refusing to accept that popularity over-rides the law, or absolves criminal acts.

Funny though how some people get very defensive when allocated a "lower class" slot.Strange given your background you identify with the privileged dinosaurs believing apparently the Thai lower classes can go to hell.

 

As to who makes the better case, maybe that should be left to others to decide? They might have a rather different take than you on the holes you believe you are poking.

 

 

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Then you must be applauding the junta's decision to build the rail line to Nakhon Phanom. Bangkok needs plenty of labourers, that why they come from neighbouring countries.

The rail line north has been on the cards since Abhisit was unelected PM.

I don't think Section 44 is the proper way to embark upon state infrastructure projects (I'm sure the Chinese are quite pleased though)

 

Why is it that cheap undocumented foreign labour is allowed to come in and take jobs rural Thais could fill?

 

Why has Thailand developed so unevenly?

Do coups perpetuate the inequality?

 

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

When you get it together, put it where the sun doesn't shine. Is it discriminatory to not want convicted criminals and others facing serious charges included amongst those governing the country? Perhaps calling TRT out for offering bribes was discriminatory too. In fact any law will be discriminatory if you are intending to break it.

It is discriminatory when holding those on one side of politics to differing standards than the side you support.

 

By bribes do you mean policies that were taken to an election and given a mandate to be implemented by the electorate?

 

Laws are not discriminatory, but the application of law can be (and in Thailand are) discriminatory.

 

You are free to support whichever side most closely replicates your personal politics but you cannot make up your own facts to support your views. The Thai courts are extremely biased against democracy - end of story.

[halloween]

2 hours ago, pornprong said:

It is discriminatory when holding those on one side of politics to differing standards than the side you support.

 

By bribes do you mean policies that were taken to an election and given a mandate to be implemented by the electorate?

 

Laws are not discriminatory, but the application of law can be (and in Thailand are) discriminatory.

 

You are free to support whichever side most closely replicates your personal politics but you cannot make up your own facts to support your views. The Thai courts are extremely biased against democracy - end of story.

What differing standards? Has there been evidence presented of the non-Thaksin side offering bribes, of involving banned politicians, or putting forward criminals as party list candidates? just what electoral crimes have they committed but not been held accountable?

So are you suggesting PTP's policies were sound, and intended to benefit the nation, or to get them elected, and be a vehicle for corruption? There is a large section of the Thai voters who are low income, offering them cash bribes does nothing to improve productivity, and they will vote for whoever offers the biggest bribe, being both uneducated and ill-informed. Democracy is fine, if you have the foundations. Without them it is a tool for criminals.

You think the Thai courts are extremely biased against democracy? Given that the most of the attempts at democracy have been a haven for a pack of thieves, is it any wonder why? 

 

[pornprong]

5 minutes ago, halloween said:

What differing standards? Has there been evidence presented of the non-Thaksin side offering bribes, of involving banned politicians, or putting forward criminals as party list candidates? just what electoral crimes have they committed but not been held accountable?

That the Thai courts are rigged is not up for debate, if you choose to believe differently good for you, but I'm not about to waste time debating the obvious.

 

5 minutes ago, halloween said:

So are you suggesting PTP's policies were sound, and intended to benefit the nation, or to get them elected, and be a vehicle for corruption? There is a large section of the Thai voters who are low income, offering them cash bribes does nothing to improve productivity, and they will vote for whoever offers the biggest bribe, being both uneducated and ill-informed. Democracy is fine, if you have the foundations. Without them it is a tool for criminals.

There is never a guarantee that any governments policies will turn out as planned, however, PTP policies were presented to the electorate, the people voted, PTP won and then implemented the mandated policies.

 

Are you suggesting that the current Junta's policies are sound and intended to benefit the nation?

 

Many Thais are poor and have little formal education, that doesn't mean that they're stupid. 

 

You think democracy is a tool for criminals - what about coups? Are they tools for angels???

 

5 minutes ago, halloween said:

You think the Thai courts are extremely biased against democracy? Given that the most of the attempts at democracy have been a haven for a pack of thieves, is it any wonder why? 

 

I don't think the Thai courts are biased against democracy - the world knows the Thai courts are currently biased against democracy.

 

Attempts at democracy began in 1932.

Many Thais gave their lives in 1976, 1992 and 2010 fighting for democracy.

The haven for thieves has clearly been provided by the decades of unelected, military backed regimes.

Democracy will cure Thailand, it is inevitable.

 

Do you actually believe that there is no corruption taking place under the Junta right now???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[halloween]

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

That the Thai courts are rigged is not up for debate, if you choose to believe differently good for you, but I'm not about to waste time debating the obvious.

 

There is never a guarantee that any governments policies will turn out as planned, however, PTP policies were presented to the electorate, the people voted, PTP won and then implemented the mandated policies.

 

Are you suggesting that the current Junta's policies are sound and intended to benefit the nation?

 

Many Thais are poor and have little formal education, that doesn't mean that they're stupid. 

 

You think democracy is a tool for criminals - what about coups? Are they tools for angels???

 

I don't think the Thai courts are biased against democracy - the world knows the Thai courts are currently biased against democracy.

 

Attempts at democracy began in 1932.

Many Thais gave their lives in 1976, 1992 and 2010 fighting for democracy.

The haven for thieves has clearly been provided by the decades of unelected, military backed regimes.

Democracy will cure Thailand, it is inevitable.

 

Do you actually believe that there is no corruption taking place under the Junta right now???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it up to you to decide what is up fro debate? I don't consider Thai courts to be "rigged", the evidence is normally clearly given.

The electorate decided. That is the crux of the problem, an uneducated and ill-informed electorate went for the offered bribes, and the resulting waste, corruption and damage was enormous.

The junta's policies have been far better than anything achieved under Yingluk. Can you name one big success?

No not stupid, but an educated and informed electorate, along with a free and critical press are the basis of democracy, without them you get what we get here.

No -one said the junta are angels, but can you show any evidence of multi billion baht theft?

Most of the world has no idea, and cares even less. when I point out to Australians how corrupt the so-called democratic governments are here, they are horrified.

You know the courts are biased - tell me, do you believe Boonsong was guilty? Do you believe Yingluk did a good job managing the rice scam?

[candide]

23 minutes ago, halloween said:

Is it up to you to decide what is up fro debate? I don't consider Thai courts to be "rigged", the evidence is normally clearly given.

The electorate decided. That is the crux of the problem, an uneducated and ill-informed electorate went for the offered bribes, and the resulting waste, corruption and damage was enormous.

The junta's policies have been far better than anything achieved under Yingluk. Can you name one big success?

No not stupid, but an educated and informed electorate, along with a free and critical press are the basis of democracy, without them you get what we get here.

No -one said the junta are angels, but can you show any evidence of multi billion baht theft?

Most of the world has no idea, and cares even less. when I point out to Australians how corrupt the so-called democratic governments are here, they are horrified.

You know the courts are biased - tell me, do you believe Boonsong was guilty? Do you believe Yingluk did a good job managing the rice scam?

"The junta's policies have been far better than anything achieved under Yingluk."

I'd like to know more about your arguments on this particular point.

[pornprong]

33 minutes ago, halloween said:

Is it up to you to decide what is up fro debate? I don't consider Thai courts to be "rigged", the evidence is normally clearly given.

It is up to me to decide what I want to debate.

I don't debate whether the Earth is flat or a globe, for similar reasons I don't debate whether the Thai courts are politicised or not.

Quote

The electorate decided. That is the crux of the problem, an uneducated and ill-informed electorate went for the offered bribes, and the resulting waste, corruption and damage was enormous.

An uneducated and ill informed electorate is not the crux of the problem, it is an excuse you offer to support your opposition to democracy.

I repeat, just because someone hasn't much of a formal education does not mean that they are stupid.

I would also add, given the technology of the day, the people have never been better informed.

 

Quote

The junta's policies have been far better than anything achieved under Yingluk. Can you name one big success?

If the Junta's policies are better why has foreign investment dried up?

If the Junta's policies are better why must they use Section 44 so frequently?

If the Junta's policies are better why do they not release projects for tender instead of just awarding them?

If the Junta's policies are better why have the national reserves dropped from 400 billion to 70 billion?

 

Quote

No not stupid, but an educated and informed electorate, along with a free and critical press are the basis of democracy, without them you get what we get here.

How do you get all of those things under a Junta. The Junta want the people to remain poor and uneducated, it is after all decades of Junta rule that has made the people poor and uneducated. The Junta exercise far greater control over the media than any elected government ever did. The only way to get a better democracy is to start with an imperfect democracy and work towards it. The Junta does not want democracy so anyone supporting the Junta clearly does not want democracy either.

Quote

No -one said the junta are angels, but can you show any evidence of multi billion baht theft?

There is decades worth of multi billion baht Junta theft.

How much do you think the military make from illegal logging and gem smuggling not to mention cuts from drugs and brothels military hardware procurement.

 

BTW - there is no evidence of any PTP politician personally profiting from the rice pledging scheme corruption, not a single one of them has been charged and convicted of personally making financial gains.

Quote

Most of the world has no idea, and cares even less. when I point out to Australians how corrupt the so-called democratic governments are here, they are horrified.

You know the views of 23 million Australians?

If what you've told Australians is anything like the nonsense you write on here no wonder they're horrified, they don't know your exaggerating, omitting and lying. 

 

Who I was referring to when I said the rest of the world, is the world media. Time magazine, The Diplomat, The Economist, The Spectator, The New York Times, The Guardian, East Asia Review, The Quadrant and on and on it goes.

 

Quote

You know the courts are biased - tell me, do you believe Boonsong was guilty? Do you believe Yingluk did a good job managing the rice scam?

I honestly don't know the in and outs of what he has been convicted off. What I do know is that I cannot trust the Thai courts. 

The 2 Burmese guys convicted of mudering on Koh Tao = no confidence in the Thai courts

Confessed Popcorn killer being released = no confidence in Thai courts

Countless Red convictions and Yellow acquittals = no confidence in Thai courts

Numerous rich not being jailed despite killing with their vehicles = no confidence in Thai courts

Thaksin's 2001 acquittal of asset concealment  = no confidence in Thai courts

 

Yingluck did a good job managing the country. Management of the rice scheme was delegated to her DPM who did as good as anyone could have managing what turned out to be a flawed policy in a country that is rife with corruption.

Edited September 2, 2017 by pornprong

[greenchair]

On 8/31/2017 at 6:14 AM, Thian said:

yeah for 500 baht a vote, you call that democratically? If one offers 600 baht they'll all vote for him.

I just happened to be down at one of the shut down bkk protests. 

On that day I saw a loooong line of bedraggled elderly people with ID card in hand. 

Upon looking at the front of the line there was a small group of people. 1 was handing money, 1 was recording their id and the others were watching and keeping order. 

Pot calling the kettle. 

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[SheungWan]

On 9/2/2017 at 10:00 AM, jayboy said:

We can discuss further when you have absorbed my initial recommendations.There may be an informal test before we move on to more challenging material.Can you send me a summary of your educational background so I can pitch your study at the right level.

Try to resist playing the patronizing card, however many 'O' levels you have.

[SheungWan]

On 9/2/2017 at 10:11 AM, halloween said:

Difficult isn't it when the perceived lower classes poke holes in your theories.  Well you just keep making your BS claims and I'll keep on contradicting them, refusing to accept that popularity over-rides the law, or absolves criminal acts.

Absolutely spot-on. And then when the BS claims are contradicted he resorts to attempted patronizing comments to deflect the discussion. Or maybe we should just kick-off on Thaksin and Yingluck's educational backgrounds.

Edited September 4, 2017 by SheungWan

[hawker9000]

Thaksin has simply GOT to know that his audience of interested listeners shrinks by the month.   Stuff like this might stir up his ever-shrinking base, temporarily, but at the same time bores everyone else and causes them to tune out.  The "kangaroo-court" argument is threadbare and very very tired at this point.   And enlisting dead western philosophers in his cause is pathetic.   'Not sure what his long-term strategy for resurrection might be, but if this is it, he's just writing a how-not-to guide...

 

 

[pornprong]

5 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Thaksin has simply GOT to know that his audience of interested listeners shrinks by the month.   Stuff like this might stir up his ever-shrinking base, temporarily, but at the same time bores everyone else and causes them to tune out.  The "kangaroo-court" argument is threadbare and very very tired at this point.   And enlisting dead western philosophers in his cause is pathetic.   'Not sure what his long-term strategy for resurrection might be, but if this is it, he's just writing a how-not-to guide...

 

 

You don't appear to like Thaksin and you haven't tuned out so what makes you think the millions of followers who adore him would have?

[Siripon]

On 9/4/2017 at 11:08 AM, SheungWan said:

Try to resist playing the patronizing card, however many 'O' levels you have.

I believe he earned a doctorate in International Putdowns from Shinawat University.

[Siripon]

Just now, pornprong said:

You don't appear to like Thaksin and you haven't tuned out so what makes you think the millions of followers who adore him would have?

It's all very well having millions of followers adoring you but it's not much use when you're still unable to come back to Thailand after 9 years and with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Thaksin was lucky to have a beautiful and compliant sister willing to carry on the populist torch but now she has fled he is left with some rather dull choices: Somchai, Pongthep or Sudarat.

None of these will ignite or move the populace so he really needs some populist policies that will strike a chord with the people- but that's not so easy under the new constitution.

Difficult times ahead for Pheua Thai, but then it's not easy for the Democrats with a possible split between Suthep and his followers and Apisit and the rest of the Democrats over support for Prayuth as PM.

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, Siripon said:

It's all very well having millions of followers adoring you but it's not much use when you're still unable to come back to Thailand after 9 years and with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Thaksin has easily won 2 elections whilst he has been based outside Thailand, expect it to be 3 sometime next year.

 

1 hour ago, Siripon said:

Thaksin was lucky to have a beautiful and compliant sister willing to carry on the populist torch but now she has fled he is left with some rather dull choices: Somchai, Pongthep or Sudarat.

You seem to be forgetting the not so beautiful Samak also won an election riding Thaksin's coattails.

 

1 hour ago, Siripon said:

None of these will ignite or move the populace so he really needs some populist policies that will strike a chord with the people- but that's not so easy under the new constitution.

Hatred of the Junta ignites the populace. 

(Were they "populist" policies or pro-poor policies?)

 

1 hour ago, Siripon said:

Difficult times ahead for Pheua Thai, but then it's not easy for the Democrats with a possible split between Suthep and his followers and Apisit and the rest of the Democrats over support for Prayuth as PM.

Far from difficult times ahead for PTP.

Despite the best efforts to subvert democracy with an undemocratic constitution PTP will still win just under 50% of the seats in the next parliament - giving them a strong voice but no power, the perfect place to be as the authors of the 20 year strategy drive the country into the ditch.

The difficult times are going to fall upon an unpopular pro-Junta government (most likely with an outsider PM) operating in a post election environment without Section 44 and media censorship.

 

Like him or loathe him - you cannot deny Thaksin is a clever bugger.

[Siripon]

8 hours ago, pornprong said:

Thaksin has easily won 2 elections whilst he has been based outside Thailand, expect it to be 3 sometime next year.

 

You seem to be forgetting the not so beautiful Samak also won an election riding Thaksin's coattails.

 

Hatred of the Junta ignites the populace. 

(Were they "populist" policies or pro-poor policies?)

 

Far from difficult times ahead for PTP.

Despite the best efforts to subvert democracy with an undemocratic constitution PTP will still win just under 50% of the seats in the next parliament - giving them a strong voice but no power, the perfect place to be as the authors of the 20 year strategy drive the country into the ditch.

The difficult times are going to fall upon an unpopular pro-Junta government (most likely with an outsider PM) operating in a post election environment without Section 44 and media censorship.

 

Like him or loathe him - you cannot deny Thaksin is a clever bugger.

There is nothing clever about winning elections by landslides and then having to flee the law and country, quite possibly for the rest of your life because of your greed and hubris. Thaksin threw it all away by arrogance and avarice.

I am not sure what will happen in the election next year. Let us wait and see, it is far too early to be confident of anything.

Samak did indeed ride the coat tails of Thaksin but remember Samak was very well known to a considerable number of the electorate- a hard line right winger actually- what friends Thaksin chooses! But let us remember  Thaksin promptly disposed of him and chose his colourless brother-in-law Somchai when it was rime to select a new PM.

 

 

Poor old Samak, he even went to Parliament expecting to be reelected as PM!

[maeab101]

11 minutes ago, Siripon said:

There is nothing clever about winning elections by landslides and then having to flee the law and country, quite possibly for the rest of your life because of your greed and hubris. Thaksin threw it all away by arrogance and avarice.

I am not sure what will happen in the election next year. Let us wait and see, it is far too early to be confident of anything.

Samak did indeed ride the coat tails of Thaksin but remember Samak was very well known to a considerable number of the electorate- a hard line right winger actually- what friends Thaksin chooses! But let us remember  Thaksin promptly disposed of him and chose his colourless brother-in-law Somchai when it was rime to select a new PM.

 

 

Poor old Samak, he even went to Parliament expecting to be reelected as PM!

Now that they have his grandson. Maybe he will keep quiet. LOL

[pornprong]

33 minutes ago, Siripon said:

There is nothing clever about winning elections by landslides and then having to flee the law and country, quite possibly for the rest of your life because of your greed and hubris.

Thaksin threw it all away by arrogance and avarice.

Flee the law????

Since when have coups been lawful?

Ousted for greed and hubris or for spending government money on poor people and starting to open up the Thai economy to competition - thereby threatening the established elites parasitic existence?

 

33 minutes ago, Siripon said:

I am not sure what will happen in the election next year. Let us wait and see, it is far too early to be confident of anything.

Same sentiment supporters of the 2006 military coup had prior to the 2007 election.

Same sentiment supporters of the 2008 judicial coup had prior to the 2011 election.

 

33 minutes ago, Siripon said:

Samak did indeed ride the coat tails of Thaksin but remember Samak was very well known to a considerable number of the electorate- a hard line right winger actually- what friends Thaksin chooses! But let us remember  Thaksin promptly disposed of him and chose his colourless brother-in-law Somchai when it was rime to select a new PM.

You seem to be mighty forgetful.

How was it that Samak was removed from the Prime Ministership again??

 

[Siripon]

16 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Flee the law????

Since when have coups been lawful?

Ousted for greed and hubris or for spending government money on poor people and starting to open up the Thai economy to competition - thereby threatening the established elites parasitic existence?

 

Same sentiment supporters of the 2006 military coup had prior to the 2007 election.

Same sentiment supporters of the 2008 judicial coup had prior to the 2011 election.

 

You seem to be mighty forgetful.

How was it that Samak was removed from the Prime Ministership again??

 

Thaksin fled the country when a junta were in power. He fled  because he knew there were a number of cases against him, possibly the most serious one being the Krungtai bank -Krisida loan- his subordinates in this case are currently serving long sentences

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Thaksin-faces-trial-over-KTB-loan-to-real-estate-f-30187006.html

Samak was removed from the Premiership due to running a cooking class but was immediately eligible to run again in the selection of the new Premier and as I said, he turned up at Parliament fully expecting to be elected PM again on the Monday.

But Thaksin stabbed him in the back by ordering his MPs to select Somchai Wongsuwat , his brother-in-law.

Thaksin, so appreciative of those who worked for him.He leaves them to rot in jail or throws them under a bus like Samak.

[tomta]

11 hours ago, Siripon said:

 

Thaksin was lucky to have a beautiful and compliant sister willing to carry on the populist torch but now she has fled he is left with some rather dull choices: Somchai, Pongthep or Sudarat.

 

Nobody predicted Yingluck as his chosen successor. He may have another ace up his sleeve. I guess we'll see

[Siripon]

3 minutes ago, tomta said:

Nobody predicted Yingluck as his chosen successor. He may have another ace up his sleeve. I guess we'll see

I think he only has jacks now, or maybe even lower.

[tomta]

1 hour ago, Siripon said:

  Thaksin promptly disposed of him and chose his colourless brother-in-law Somchai when it was rime to select a new PM.

 

 

 

And what a terrible crime that was - choosing a colourless dull person. Doesn't matter who he chooses - himself , flamboyant millionaire, Samak, right wing hero and populist cooking show host, Somchai, dull, uncharismatic, competent bureaucrat, Yingluck, sister, nice person, attractive woman  - they cannot be tolerated as they are all avatars of the evil one.

 

[Siripon]

Just now, tomta said:

And what a terrible crime that was - choosing a colourless dull person. Doesn't matter who he chooses - himself , flamboyant millionaire, Samak, right wing hero and populist cooking show host, Somchai, dull, uncharismatic, competent bureaucrat, Yingluck, sister, nice person, attractive woman  - they cannot be tolerated as they are all avatars of the evil one.

 

The crime was stabbing Samak in the back and not having the guts to tell him face to face that his services were no longer required. Letting Samak go though all the motions of getting dressed up, going to Parliament fully expecting to be selected again as PM, only to be betrayed when the vote was taken.

The actions of Thaksin were those of a coward.

[tomta]

Just now, Siripon said:

The crime was stabbing Samak in the back and not having the guts to tell him face to face that his services were no longer required. Letting Samak go though all the motions of getting dressed up, going to Parliament fully expecting to be selected again as PM, only to be betrayed when the vote was taken.

The actions of Thaksin were those of a coward.

Did I say that Thaksin was a moral exemplar? He is in my view a disgusting man whose only saving grace is that through his interest in himself he was able to do things that benefited the Thai people. Samak was an equally or more disgusting human being and I don't feel any sympathy for the man who was on radio egging on crowds to slaughter communists in 1976 and told barefaced lies that only one person had been killed in those events. Am I meant to cry about his fate? They are both colourful individuals and that is undeniable. BUt my question to you and others was about the colourless individual, Somchai. Just as a personal preference, I think it would be much better if dull, colorless, uncharismatic people get jobs in politics. And get elected. Charisma - Napoleon, Attila the Hun, Hitler