Usurious bank fees on an international wire

[mrnike]

Hi guys,

I just made a transfer from my home bank in Europe to my recently opened Kasikorn Saving account here in bkk.

 

First i got surpised how fast it took for me to get the monry, less than 2 hours, but then, my second surprise was how much money they charged (stole) me: they basically charged me 5000thb for a bit less than 340'000...

 

I've been calling my home bank twice, and they told me they just charged me 150thb, and then went to a kasikorn branch, where a guy on the phone told me that they charge 2.5% (which is not possible, as it would be more than 5000thb) and 500thb, and that they used the visa exchange rate (???)...

 

I'm more than furious, as my goal by opening an account here was saving on the atm fees...

 

So, do you guys have any ideas or explanation on why i got charged so much, and maybe on what i could do to protest and get some of the money back?

 

Thanks in advance.

[lopburi3]

Suspect that was .25% which is the receiving fee charged by Thai bank for a foreign transfer (range 200 to 500 baht).  So total Thai change was likely 500 baht.

 

How would your home bank change you 150 baht?  You did send your foreign currency right?  If not then what exchange rate did your home bank use (normally very bad)?  Expect most banks would change in range of 1-2,000 baht in home currency fee just to perform the transfer.

 

Unless your home bank was very international there would also have to be an intermediate bank and they also take a fee.

[topt]

56 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Unless your home bank was very international there would also have to be an intermediate bank and they also take a fee.

Unless as you suggest he "forgot" to tell them to send in his home currency I suspect this is where the extra charges are although I doubt that would be more than $60US equivalent.

 

OP would be useful to say which bank/country and what currency for others to possibly check in with their personal experiences - oh and how you worked out the 5k baht as costs.

[The manic]

UK bank to yellow bank is set fee of 20 pounds. Takes a few days. I send in sterling

[lungbing]

If you are British I suspect you asked them to transfer Thai baht and they converted at a rate of about 40 to the pound in stead of the 43-44 you would have received here.  Always send GBP.

[mrnike]

Actually i did everything right with my bank in my home country. I just realised that the difference is due to the fact that i was entirely relying on the exchange rate of my phone application (XE Converter), as my money is coming from my home country, and of course the bank exchange rate is lower, about 1.2%. That's why.

 

[seajae]

transfer wise is the best way to go, mid market rate and its cheap, I have used them for over a year and very impressed with them.

[topt]

1 hour ago, mrnike said:

Actually i did everything right with my bank in my home country. I just realised that the difference is due to the fact that i was entirely relying on the exchange rate of my phone application (XE Converter), as my money is coming from my home country, and of course the bank exchange rate is lower, about 1.2%. That's why.

 

Thanks for letting us know and being honest

I don't know about KK bank but BKK and SCB you can look up their exchange rates - although they can change multiple times a day. XE probably just gives you a mid market rate which is only useful as a guide - as you have discovered.

[JamJar]

46 minutes ago, topt said:

Thanks for letting us know and being honest

I don't know about KK bank but BKK and SCB you can look up their exchange rates - although they can change multiple times a day. XE probably just gives you a mid market rate which is only useful as a guide - as you have discovered.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/rate/Pages/Foreign-Exchange.aspx

 

TELEX TRANSFER

[jackdd]

A regular bank transfer is just a bad way to get money to Thailand.

Best choice: Get a credit card from a bank which refunds the 220THB ATM fee. There are not many, and probably not in every country, and if you do it too often they probably terminate your credit card, so i always withdraw the maximum amount and deposit what i don't need right now in my Thai bank account.

Second best choice: Bring cash to Thailand, exchange it at an exchanger like Super Rich (way better rates than the banks) and put it in your Thai bank account.

Third best choice: Transferwise

[MJCM]

11 minutes ago, jackdd said:

A regular bank transfer is just a bad way to get money to Thailand.

<snip>

Why is it a bad choice?  Costs ? Time Wise ?

 

It can take a while with some banks but it's Cheaper for me to transfer via my Regular Bank account then for example via TransferWise.

 

My European Bank charges me a MAX of EUR 5.50 and the Thai Bank charges me a MAX of 500 THB.

So that is in total (MAX costs) around 7-800 THB (depending on the exchange rate), and it's the same fee if I send 100 EURO or 5000 Euros

 

Normally it's in my (Thai) Bank account (when I send at on a Weekday +/- 2pm (Thai Time))  the next working day between 8:30am and 3pm (again Thai Time)

 

Edit: And ALWAYS send Home Country Currency and NOT THB (because you get a VERY poor exchange Rate)

[lopburi3]

Credit card normally will have a 1 to 3% fee involved so it normally not a good option - even if ATM fee refunded.  Also a cash advance normally requires payment of interest so best if using card to make it a debit type.

Cash is not an option for most people living here.

The option used by many from UK/USA is the Bangkok Bank home country domestic transfer systems.  Although may not be the absolute cheapest in all cases it is normally a good choice and easy to use.

[jackdd]

14 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Why is it a bad choice. It can take a while with some banks but it's Cheaper for me to transfer via my Regular Bank account then for example via TransferWise.

 

My European Bank charges me a MAX of EUR 5.50 and the Thai Bank charges me a MAX of 500 THB.

So that is in total around 7-800 THB (depending on the exchange rate).

 

Normally it's in my Bank account (when I send at on a Weekday +/- 2pm (Thai Time))  the next working day between 8:30am and 3pm (again Thai Time)

 

1000 Euro to THB

1. ATM with Visa (refund of 220THB): 39171THB
2. Bring cash and exchange at Super Rich: 39300THB
3. Transferwise: 39018THB
4. Bank transfer (using the rate from Kasikorn, somebody posted a link before, minus 700THB fee): 38222

Method 2 has the best rate, but it's inconvenient, so i would prefer the slightly worse exchange rate from method 1.
Even if you pay the 220THB out of your own pocket, if you withdraw 30000THB at the ATM it's still cheaper than a bank transfer (When i asked Krungsri about the fee for transferring money from abroad they told me 500THB + some percentage, but for this example i now assumed it's just the 500THB you told me and the bit your home country bank charges you)

 

About the 1-3% Fee when paying with a credit card in a foreign currency: In Germany it's easy to get a credit card without this extra charge, maybe in other countries that's more difficult or even impossible, of course the calculation then looks different, but then i would go for cash or Transferwise.

[MJCM]

Foreign Currency transfer is 0.25% of the incoming transfer with a MAX of 500 THB

 

Quote

 

Fees and charges:

• 0.25% of transferred amounts (minimum of THB 200 baht and maximum of THB 500 per transaction)

 

 

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/en/PersonalBanking/BankingServices/InternationalRemittanceServices/InwardRemittance.html

 

RE 2: Don't forget to pay for the Airfare and the MAX amount you can bring in. I only can take a max of 10.000 Euros with me without being held by Customs. !

 

And I seldom go back to Europe.

 

Transfer wise is quoting me for transferring (oke I used 5000 Euro and not 1000 as the 5000 Euro is the usual amount I transfer) a total cost of € 36.74 EUR (which is approx 1400 THB). You maybe get a better exchange rate, but you need to recoup the 700 THB first. Transferwise is a viable option for some.

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

1. ATM with Visa (refund of 220THB): 39171THB
2. Bring cash and exchange at Super Rich: 39300THB
3. Transferwise: 39018THB
4. Bank transfer (using the rate from Kasikorn, somebody posted a link before, minus 700THB fee): 38222

Consistent with the repeated comparisons I do.

Cash beats it all.

But only for the travelers/tourists

 

Roughly: transferwise or similar are good for "smaller" amounts.

But beware of fixed percentages of the transfer sum which can throw you back.

I am quite certain that for big amounts (5 digit USD, EUR, GBP) the bank transfer is better.

 

 

[jackdd]

Transferwise is always better, simply because the banks offer bad exchange rates. Last time when i arrived in BKK i compared the exchange rates of the booths on the arrival floor (Kasikorn, SCB) with the booths in the basement near the airport link (Super Rich and others). The difference when exchanging EUR for THB were about 2THB which is really a lot.

 

10000 Euro

Transferwise: 391828
Bank Transfer: 389737

Now you could say: Just 0.5% difference, but it's still about 2000THB or 50 Euro which you save with Transferwise if you can wait a few days.

[NancyL]

Very little of this advice applies to Americans.  We can transfer funds into Bangkok Bank from many U.S. banks and credit unions using the ACH system for inter-bank transfers since Bangkok Bank has a U.S. routing number.  The cost is very low and the funds arrive within hours.  No other Thai bank has this arrangement.

 

I can bring thousands of dollars into Thailand within a few hours with just a few keystrokes at a cost less than $10 and a fairly good exchange rate.  OK, it's not the SuperRich exchange rate, but it's the TT rate on the Bangkok Bank website for the day.   Or, for larger transfers, I can bring funds into a Bangkok Bank U.S. dollar account via ACH transfer and hold the funds until the exchange rate improves.

[KhunBENQ]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

Last time when i arrived in BKK i compared the exchange rates of the booths on the arrival floor (Kasikorn, SCB) with the booths in the basement near the airport link (Super Rich and others).

Sorry but this is comparison does not make sense.

Its a known fact that the booths on the airport premises have a terrible uniform rate.

Much worse than at branches outside.

Only uninformed newbies will use them.

 

And cash exchange rates are not relevant for transfers at all but the TT rates.

 

See here:

https://daytodaydata.net/

select your currency and then TT rates.

 

At the moment Kasikorn shows second best TT rate (EUR) while they usually have a bad cash rate.

It seems to me that some banks just want to drive cash exchange customers away.

[MJCM]

15 hours ago, jackdd said:

<snip>

 

10000 Euro

Transferwise: 391828
Bank Transfer: 389737

Now you could say: Just 0.5% difference, but it's still about 2000THB or 50 Euro which you save with Transferwise if you can wait a few days.

I hear you, but did you see what it says on the Transferwise website when you get a quote ??

 

 

Edit: And as @KhunBENQ already said, PLEASE don't compare Transferwise with Cash Transfers but with TT (Telex Transfer) rates of the Banks, as that is what used.

[MJCM]

 

Quote

Japanese Guy, goes into a bank and asks the teller/cashier to change 1000 yen into dollars. The teller/cashier gives him 90 dollars. Next day the Japanese man returns to the same bank goes to the same teller/cashier and asks to change 1000 yen into dollars. This time he receives 85 dollars. What's this says the Japanese man, yesterday I get 90$ today 85$. Fluctuations replies the teller/cashier. Well, fluck you amelicans too, exclaims the Japanese man.

[jackdd]

34 minutes ago, MJCM said:

I hear you, but did you see what it says on the Transferwise website when you get a quote ??

 

 

Of course they don't guarantee this exchange rate, because if you transfer the money to them it takes 1 or 2 days to arrive and you will get the exchange of the day when the money actually arrives. But this could also mean maybe in real you get a better exchange than what is now being displayed.

Same for a normal bank transfer, maybe today they show 1:39, you transfer the money, it arrives tomorrow and then you get 1:38.9 or whatever because that is the exchange rate of the day it arrives, or you are lucky and get a bit more than expected.

[MJCM]

Yes, true, as I said earlier, Transferwise is good for some ! I am very happy with the way I transfer Money, and will NOT change.

 

Question: How long will it take for your Money to reach Transferwise so they set the Exchange Rate ? Hours ?

 

 

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Question: How will it take for your Money to reach Transferwise so they set the Exchange Rate ? Hours ?

The last time i used it it took 2 days, it's a normal bank transfer from your home bank (in my case Germany) to their bank in Estonia. But at first my bank blocked the transfer and i had to confirm that i really want to send money to Estonia, without this it would maybe have 1 day.

[Mover1]

I've been using Transferwise for about a year now. Just sent £9500 with guaranteed rate of 44.97 baht, and will receive 424,625 baht with a fee of £58.15 or 2616 baht. Money should arrive by Monday 25th September.

 

Looking on the TT rates the best at the moment is 44.85, multiply that by 9500 and you get 426,075. A difference of 1450 baht if I had the cash here and managed to exchange for the best rate of 44.85. 

 

As I'm writing this the Transferwise guaranteed rate has just gone up to 44.99! 

 

 

[MJCM]

@Mover1

 

In whole fairness, report back on Monday what exact amount you received (but I guess we know that already ) and what the TT (Telex Transfer) rate then is, as you can't already look (and compare) at the current TT rate for Money that you will receive on Monday.

[Mover1]

3 minutes ago, MJCM said:

@Mover1

 

In whole fairness, report back on Monday what exact amount you received (but I guess we know that already ) and what the TT (Telex Transfer) rate then is, as you can't already look at the current TT rate for Money that you will receive on Monday.

 

Yeah no problem, I see what you mean. 

 

You could look at it two ways though, if I took the cash from my UK bank today and changed it at TT I'd receive todays rate. Sending money from my UK bank today to Transferwise is in effect the same thing.

 

Pretty sure the rate was locked at 44.97 with the fee's and everything else I quoted, but happy to report back when received. 

 

I'm not an avid supporter of Transferwise above everything else by the way, if there's an easier way to get the same or better rates then I'd happily use that method. I've tried direct to Kasikorn but the rates were slightly lower, plus my UK bank charges around £15 for sending international transfers. I only go to the UK once a year, and bringing large amounts of £££'s back over isn't what I like doing, but I can understand why people do it.

[kkerry]

22 hours ago, jackdd said:

Transferwise is always better, simply because the banks offer bad exchange rates. Last time when i arrived in BKK i compared the exchange rates of the booths on the arrival floor (Kasikorn, SCB) with the booths in the basement near the airport link (Super Rich and others). The difference when exchanging EUR for THB were about 2THB which is really a lot.

 

18 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Sorry but this is comparison does not make sense.

Its a known fact that the booths on the airport premises have a terrible uniform rate.

Much worse than at branches outside.

Only uninformed newbies will use them.

 

What jackdd is comparing, is the difference in cash rates between the major bank booths (before & after immigration) and money changers like Super Rich next to the ARL, in the basement of Suvarnabhumi Airport. There is a two baht difference between Super Rich and the bank booth a mere ten metres away.

 

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

17 minutes ago, kkerry said:

What jackdd is comparing, is the difference in cash rates between the major bank booths (before & after immigration) and money changers like Super Rich next to the ARL, in the basement of Suvarnabhumi Airport. There is a two baht difference between Super Rich and the bank booth a mere ten metres away.

I know and did observe this multiple times.

Even made pictures and some math (loosing 4 to 7 percent typically).

But it has nothing to do with comparing bank transfer vs. transferwise or the like.

[The manic]

On 21/09/2017 at 4:01 AM, jackdd said:

 

1000 Euro to THB

1. ATM with Visa (refund of 220THB): 39171THB
2. Bring cash and exchange at Super Rich: 39300THB
3. Transferwise: 39018THB
4. Bank transfer (using the rate from Kasikorn, somebody posted a link before, minus 700THB fee): 38222

Method 2 has the best rate, but it's inconvenient, so i would prefer the slightly worse exchange rate from method 1.
Even if you pay the 220THB out of your own pocket, if you withdraw 30000THB at the ATM it's still cheaper than a bank transfer (When i asked Krungsri about the fee for transferring money from abroad they told me 500THB + some percentage, but for this example i now assumed it's just the 500THB you told me and the bit your home country bank charges you)

 

About the 1-3% Fee when paying with a credit card in a foreign currency: In Germany it's easy to get a credit card without this extra charge, maybe in other countries that's more difficult or even impossible, of course the calculation then looks different, but then i would go for cash or Transferwise.

Where is Super Rich on Pattaya?

[The manic]

On a related topic: Can I avoid high fees if I use my CC at the counter in a bank and not use the ATM?