Should the British Government be responsible for housing and feeding ex-pats returning from Thailand?

[webfact]

Should the British Government be responsible for housing and feeding ex-pats returning from Thailand?

 

 

When 41 year old Mark Smith found himself out of work and homeless in Thailand, after 15 years living in the Kingdom, he turned to social media for help.

 

Like many other brits who arrive in Thailand Mark had enjoyed the beaches, bars and the freedom Thailand offers those looking for a way out of the rat race in the UK. After exploring the country, enjoying beach parties and the exotic lifestyle Mark invested in a bar, fell in love with a local girl he later married and started a family. Mark was living the dream, however, like many others the dream later turned into a nightmare.

 

 

As the tourism on the island took a downturn, thanks to the world economy and the exchange rate, business in the bar dried up and Mark found himself looking for alternative methods of earning a living. After inheriting some money he invested in land in the north of Thailand, close to his wife’s family, and planted rubber trees.

Life in the north was very different for Mark, who had become used to the excesses of island life and as he continued to enjoy a boozy lifestyle cracks started to appear in his marriage that eventually ended in divorce.

 

Unable to find work back on the islands Mark called on friends back home for loans to pay for his visas and work permit and keep the company he relied on for his visa alive.

 

With generosity from friends back home drying up and little work about for British men, Mark fell on hard times and eventually found himself sofa surfing before being homeless sustaining himself on free food offered at local bars on special occasions and later from the bins outside MacDonald’s.

 

Struggling with alcoholism Mark turned to social media and friends back home for a solution that came when a friend found him a job on a building site in the UK that included free accommodation and paid for his ticket back home.

 

However, what seemed like the perfect solution was not as easy as it seemed to Mark who lost his job within a week due to his alcoholism, he once again found himself homeless, this time in the UK.

 

Like many other Brits who return to the UK when things go wrong in Thailand, Mark turned to the British Government for help and was horrified to discover that he was not eligible to receive benefits until he had been back in the country for 3 months. Mark asked for help with housing, but, as a single man with no dependants he was low on the list of priorities and was only offered a sleeping bag and given a list of charity organisations who feed the homeless.

 

Mark felt very resentful at the way he was treated by the authorities in the UK and felt it was disgusting that he was not being taken care of, despite having not paid into the system for 15 years. Again Mark turned to social media to help and found sofas to sleep on. Sadly, Mark, who was still suffering from alcoholism, found he often outstayed his welcome and ended up back on the streets.

 

After being forced to steal meat from local stores to feed his addiction Mark managed to survive the first three months and ended up in a homeless shelter who offered counselling for his addictions and very low rent he was able to pay from his benefits.

 

Upset by his new surroundings and having to share accommodation with drug and alcohol addicts Mark was happy to receive the opportunity of help from a friend who had also recently returned from Thailand and was willing to help him rebuild his life. With support from his friend, a warm bed, a roof over his head and three meals a day Mark managed to control his alcoholism and found a job on a local building site.

 

Mark did so well at his new job he was given a company truck to drive and looked forward to his first monthly pay check. Sadly when that pay check came, missing Thailand and his child, his need for alcohol overtook him and he found himself upside down in a ditch, three times over the legal drink drive limit in the UK and after being taken to hospital spent the night in the police cells before facing the courts and the sack after writing off the company truck.

 

A few weeks later in court Mark explained that drink driving was a way of life in Thailand and he had not understood the restrictions in the UK. Having never been in trouble in the UK before he was let off a custodial sentence and community service and landed himself a nominal fine and a 2 year drink drive ban. However, finding work now was going to be very difficult.

 

With only £70 pounds a week coming in from the Government Mark found he was unable to contribute to his friend’s household bills and food budget as he only had enough money for cigarettes and alcohol. Once again he was homeless.

 

After a few weeks sleeping rough Mark managed to get a place back in the homeless shelter and is now very bitter at the way he has been treated. Mark feels that returning Brits are largely ignored by the British Government, who he feels favour assisting migrant families to the UK.

 

He said “the accommodation I have been given is meant to be bed and breakfast, but all I get is a slice of toast and some stale cereal for breakfast. I am not allowed to have alcohol in my room and I am charged for the room and even for doing my laundry” Mark finds the other residents difficult to dealt with too he said “this place is full of alcoholics and druggies, they lie and cheat and have stolen my tobacco, I can’t believe the UK government treat me like this, I am British, it’s disgusting”.

 

Mark’s case is not unique. Many ex-pats who find themselves in trouble in Thailand are surprised to find little help available when they return to the UK and many choose to remain and eke out a meagre living in Thailand as they know re-establishing themselves in the UK can seem impossible. With private landlords wanting large deposits and credit references before letting their properties, those who have spent many years abroad are often turned down when submitting rental applications.

 

Many ex-pats have fallen prey to alcoholism overseas and find, on returning to the UK, little help is available.

 

Should the UK be doing more to help returning ex-pats establish themselves back in the UK? One of Mark’s friends, Jane told us “while I am sorry that Mark is in this situation I am not sure what he expected on his return. He has arrived in the country with nothing and basically lived of the goodwill of his friends.

 

He has received free health care from the National Health who have given him free blood tests, anti-depressants and organised counselling to help him with his addiction but he turned it down, despite having been told his health has been damaged by his drinking. He has not paid into the already overburdened system, refuses to deal with his alcoholism, and has already lost a good job that could have got him back on his feet to the demon drink.

 

I think its Mark’s responsibility to sort his life out and not the UK Government. His friend gave him a roof over his head and food for two months and he didn’t pay a penny towards it, I think he needs to take responsibility for his own life and not expect others to do it for him. It was his choice to leave the UK and go and live on a beach.”

 

Another friend, Barry, told us “I think Mark has been badly treated, it’s not fair that asylum seekers get all the help but the British are forgotten. As a British man I think Mark should have been offered a council house and benefits, he has paid into the system, he had a job 20 years ago in the UK and he paid tax then. So he likes a drink and a cigarette, it’s not right he should stop the things he enjoys because he is forced to choose between alcohol and food trying to live on seventy quid a week, this country needs to wake up and take care of its own”

 

Mark told us that he feels his situation his hopeless, “I don’t know why I came back” he said, “I would have been better off being homeless in Thailand, there may be no benefits but at least it’s warm and I could sit on the beach all day. At least there I can always find something to eat and drink, people are not generous in the UK, they just treat you like s**t, I have had to resort to picking cigarette butts up off the street, if I had the money I would go back without a second thought”

 

If you are facing being homeless in the UK click here for emergency housing with Gov.UK

 

If you are struggling with addiction click here for help and advice.

 

The names in this article have been changed

 

Source: http://www.samuitimes.com/british-government-responsible-housing-feeding-ex-pats-returning-thailand/

 

-- © Copyright Samui Times 2017-10-03

 

[inThailand]

Better and cheaper to pay him enough to live with soi dogs in Thailand. 

[JAG]

Given that this character is 41, and has spent the last 15 years in Thailand, he can't have paid little in the way of National Insurance contributions.

 

 

[djayz]

No! No government/country/tax payer should haul idiots back to their home countries.  Period! 

You paid for your flight here, you boozed and banged all your money away, you had a good time now rot in the gutter where you have landed. Sounds harsh, I know, but why should any adult expect others to bail him/her out? 

[steve187]

he wants others to help him, but he does not help himself.

[inThailand]

This sounds like some expats lame excuses to lend them money.

[AGareth2]

alcohol

alcohol

alcohol

is a good friend but a bad master

[Jeremy50]

Mark goes to Thailand and makes one bad decision after another.  Opens a bar. Drinks like a fish. Marries a bar-girl. Buys her land. It's a train wreck. He then leeches off friends, and eventually has to go home with his tail between his legs. Some generous person gives him a job, but he blows that by drink driving, and is shocked to find that drink driving is illegal in the UK! So, in Thailand he was drink-driving, and risking the lives of all around him? He thinks he is entitled to be looked after by Britain, just because he is British? What a good-for-nothing scumbag. It's a pity we still don't have a penal colony we can just ship this kind of trash off to. 

[darksidedog]

The individual in this story doesn't exactly cover himself in glory in his efforts, but it does raise the bigger question of those returning who have paid many, many years of Taxes and N.I. but for whom life overseas, for whatever reason has ended. As a UK citizen, you would like to think you would be offered at least the same benefits as recently arrived immigrants.

[johnray]

There are no jobs in the UK because they outsource everything by choice.  So we have reached a point where government support is the only option for a lot of people in society.  This is simple mathematics.  If you have 10 people and 10 jobs. And than you give your company to China and loose 8 jobs.  You now have 8 people that need government support.  I don't really see the difference if he has been to a bar in Thailand or not.

 

It doesn't really matter if he's paid taxes because social security comes from general taxation.

Edited October 3, 2017 by johnray

[meatboy]

only 26yrs.old he leaves all his family back home,that is a dream of self destruction.its hard for anyone not to be sorry for him,but I have more or less been involved one way or another in Thailand for over 34yrs.and yes I have seen more than enough.try and tell them or advise them,goes in one ear and out the other.if your not carefull in Thailand that can happen to YOU.

[DoctorG]

Mark is a very bad example to use for posing this question. I am sure there are others who are trying a lot harder to make it back in the old country. For these people I would say that they should at least receive the same benefits as the so-called refugees.

[anon789561]

this guy was and is doomed for failure wherever he goes until he faces up to his alcohol problems. the rest of the story is kind of pointless really

[tonray]

Made all the mistakes:

 

1) Came to Thailand as a young man to stay

2) Bought a bar !

3) Money for business in Issan !

 

I taught school briefly (he did a runner after 3 weeks) with an American last year with the same profile. Came in twenties, blew all his money on girls, booze, drugs and surfing in Bali. Now 42 with wife and kid he was skint and addicted.....sad story.

 

It's cheaper to send them a stipend and let them stay in Thailand.

[simon43]

this place is full of alcoholics...

 

Er .. pot calling the kettle black.

 

Seems Mark is ready to blame everyone but himself.  I suppose that is due to his continuing alcoholism.  Sounds like he still hasn't reached rock-bottom and ready to admit the truth.

[inThailand]

Do you really want to give expats another reason to go crazy, and don't worry because we will take you back and take care of you?

[Nurseynutcase]

I have no sympathy whatsoever for this man.  He led what sounds like a hedonistic lifestyle here in Thailand and drank away all his money.  He made bad investments.

 

By the sounds of it his friends in the UK tried to help him but, basically, he sh1t on them by continuing his alcohol fuelled lifestyle.

 

I continue to pay UK tax, as I am sure, many others do here too.  It angers me to think that my tax money is supporting people such as this.  Regrettably there are many, many people in the UK who have the same or similar addictions and expect the tax-payer to pick up the bill.

 

Also he would have been well aware of the drink-driving laws in the UK as they came into force is the late 60's ( I am sure someone will correct me on this if I am wrong).

[chrissables]

58 minutes ago, djayz said:

No! No government/country/tax payer should haul idiots back to their home countries.  Period! 

You paid for your flight here, you boozed and banged all your money away, you had a good time now rot in the gutter where you have landed. Sounds harsh, I know, but why should any adult expect others to bail him/her out? 

As long a non UK citizens get treated the same no problem. BUt we know they get housed and fed! The UK should take care of it's own citizens ahead of others.

[inThailand]

Would you rather have your tax dollars going to help a UK citizen like him or a refugee? Or neither? 

[alant]

I worry about any argument that encourages the British government to cut ex pat's rights. There are a few numpties that squander their money / resources but there are genuine problems as well.

Meanwhile the government is happy to take our tax, refuse to increase out state pension which we have paid for and say we can't get medical services from the NHS.

Only if someone Commits to serve another country and opposes the UK (eg joining and having an allegiance to ISIS and joining their war effort.)would I deny facilities.

Edited October 3, 2017 by alant

[steven100]

Leave him with the soi dogs if he doesn't want to get off his ass and drinking problem .

Why should others have to pay for his lazyness.

[anon789561]

"He has received free health care from the National Health who have given him free blood tests, anti-depressants and organised counselling to help him with his addiction but he turned it down, despite having been told his health has been damaged by his drinking". 

he has been offered accommodation and benefits, what did he expect? a new one bed flat when he first got back. he has been offered support and counselling for what the NHS has determined to be the root cause of his problems and he has thrown it back in their faces. seems to me he just wants house and money and to drink himself to death and is blaming the world for the problems he has caused himself. the UK government and his friends have quite clearly given this guy the support he 'needs' but you can't help someone who continues to blame the world for his failings and not himself. snap out of it Mark, life goes on

[Kerryd]

Another example of someone who refuses to take responsibility for their own actions and tries to lay the blame on everyone else, in this case the government and migrants.
I'd say a big F. U. to him in a heartbeat.

Here's an idea. Start taking responsibility for YOUR OWN actions. Can't afford rent/food because you only have enough money for cigarettes and booze ? How about giving up the booze and smokes ?
H.T.F. do people get the impression that they are ENTITLED to having a lifestyle that pays for their every need (and then some) without having to put ANY effort into it ?

 

It seems he left the UK when he was 26 so no, he did NOT pay that much into "the system". He was running a bar in Thailand. He probably had alcohol issues before that (like many young people that can't handle their drink). Running a bar is a recipe for disaster if you can't control your drinking.
There are people who (literally) make a living off of selling "bars" to starry-eyed tourists who think it's the ticket to living in paradise forever.
(Maybe he had one of those little "fake bars" that set up next to popular bars and try to live off of their overflow like some you see in Soi 7 and other areas). 
Then there's the BS about not knowing that drinking and driving is wrong in the UK because "back in Thailand everyone does it". 

Many places have rules about how long you have to be there before being eligible for things like benefits and healthcare. Those rules are there to prevent abuse of the system (which would result in reduced service, higher costs, higher taxes, etc). 
Sheesh - I paid "into the system" for over 35 years (including over 21 years while in uniform) but I've been out of the country for a few years and not enrolled in the Healthcare system. If I went back I would have to enroll and pay into it (yeah, it's not totally "free" like some people think) for 3 months before I could try and get treatment (barring an emergency of course).

I knew a Brit that was living in Pattaya years ago. He was getting along by borrowing money from friends, using some to pay back other friends, some to have someone do a visa run for him and then partying on the rest. Naturally every month he had to borrow even larger sums of money and he had absolutely no way to pay it back. Eventually his "friends" wised up to what was going on and stopped lending him money.
He ended up moving "up country" to the girl friend's village where, of course, he had nothing to do but drink all day. He eventually got sick (liver) and friends/family back home scrapped money together to get him a plane ticket so he could get back to the UK (and the NHS).
Last I heard, he got treated, scrapped some more money together somehow and headed straight back to Thailand. 

Too many people these days have the idea that everything is always someone else's fault and that the world owes them a (very nice) lifestyle.Then, when they don't get what they want, they go whine to the media about how unfair it is !
 

 

[lvr181]

A lesson in how to make a small fortune?

 

Out of a 'larger' one.

 

But despite all the idiot things he has done, he is a British citizen and his home country should help him in some way. Even if this means putting him on  program dealing with alcoholism and MAKING him do valuable community service for a long period of time. He owes that service to his fellow taxpayers.

[colinneil]

This man Mark Smith is nothing more than a leech, done sfa for himself other than get addicted to drink.

Back in the UK, SOMEBODY GAVE HIIM A CHANCE, what did he do? went out and got drunk.

Expects the country to take care of him, after 15 years behaving like a prat.

[Xonax]

This guy should be properly diagnosed and treated for his Depression, which can bring even the strongest man down.

[ezzra]

Ah.. the age of social media and entitlements. me, me, me, and what about me?

you reap what you sow, and just so he knows, others, who has contributed

all their lives to the country's social security funds, often find themselves fighting

to ge get a fair go, much less if you haven't done so for many years...

 

[colinneil]

4 minutes ago, Xonax said:

This guy should be properly diagnosed and treated for his Depression, which can bring even the strongest man down.

What a crazy suggestion, helping a drunk get over his depression, rubbish help his self thats what he should do.

Do not make excuses for people like him.

Depression i know about it, i got depressed after being told i would never walk again, what did i do?

I fought it, thats what, my wife and a few very good friends helped me, now i am stronger, more determined than ever.

I never went running for help, did it myself.

[lvr181]

1 minute ago, colinneil said:

This man Mark Smith is nothing more than a leech, done sfa for himself other than get addicted to drink.

Back in the UK, SOMEBODY GAVE HIIM A CHANCE, what did he do? went out and got drunk.

Expects the country to take care of him, after 15 years behaving like a prat.

 You're totally correct and I have the 'rage' also. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

But it does not address or solve the problem of what to do with this idiot or others like him.

Perhaps we should look at how to help NOT why not to help? But first, he needs to decide whether to stay in Thailand and sink to the bottom of the heap or return to the UK, as a citizen and accept responsibility for rehabilitation supported by Government and pay the price (by community/social "work") for his taxypayer support, which includes suspension of any passport he holds.

 

 

[Kadilo]

He is probably not the best example

to highlight the argument as to whether ex pats should get helped more when they return because as many have said he has not only abused and refused help, he has made many bad  choices. 

Were he a sober, older person who had contributed most of his life to the UK system and then needed to return, and was refused help for 3 months you start to see a potential two tier system compared with new immigrants and that's when the resentment kicks in. 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Kadilo