Thaksin faces more agony

[jonclark]

41 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't disagree - but this topic is about Thaksin. The point isn't how bad is has been/is compared to others and however he relates to others has no bearing on lessening his own charges. By objection is the constant attempt to divert any discussions away from Thaksin that show him in an unfavorable light and the insistence by some posters that he's some whiter than white innocent champion of democracy and honesty.

 

If you read all the posts, you'll see I make that point and that there are no groups trying to drive transformation away from the current "models". And so it continues.

 

 

At what point does the political wrangling, nashing of teeth and finger pointing stop on TVF.

 

Trying to blame, shame and change the Thai political system on and English langugae internet forum is as likely to be as successful as a blind man trying to herd cats. 

 

Who cares if Eric / JAG /Lannaguy / steve100 or yourself are able to put together a more coherent arguement as to the righs wrongs and all the degrees inbetween if the varied and different factions thay masquarade as governments here. It makes no difference whatsoever and you wont change each others minds. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

Just now, jonclark said:

At what point does the political wrangling, nashing of teeth and finger pointing stop on TVF.

 

Trying to blame, shame and change the Thai political system on and English langugae internet forum is as likely to be as successful as a blind man trying to herd cats. 

 

Who cares if Eric / JAG /Lannaguy / steve100 or yourself are able to put together a more coherent arguement as to the righs wrongs and all the degrees inbetween if the varied and different factions thay masquarade as governments here. It makes no difference whatsoever and you wont change each others minds. 

 

 

 

So why are you bothering to read it? No one forces you. The alternative is very very easy.

[impulse]

46 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

You will not bet one satang. Hot air blowing.

 

How would you know how much I've bet, with whom, and the odds we've decided on?

 

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Let's get this right then Eric.

 

The police, who actually did the killings, investigated themselves, and you believe their police reports would've been credible. Not only that but this is the famous BiB!

 

And if was "only 72" then you think that makes it all o k? Wonder how many, if any, were involved in the drug trade.(Victims not shooters!).

 

Fact is, you believe what you want too, as long as it supports Thaksin. 

ok we will call this down the line. Your exagerated quote from HRW is non credible than the police general BBC interview. Pretty much explain why the military commission came up with nothing and Ahbisit tried to nail Thaksin with his inquiry and again nothing came out of it. So why you wasting our time trying to flog a dead horse. 

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

ok we will call this down the line. Your exagerated quote from HRW is non credible than the police general BBC interview. Pretty much explain why the military commission came up with nothing and Ahbisit tried to nail Thaksin with his inquiry and again nothing came out of it. So why you wasting our time trying to flog a dead horse. 

 

You started it Eric.

 

You must be one of the few people who actually thinks the police here are as credible as HRW !

 

But even if it was only 72 as they claim, do you think that is acceptable?

 

I don't. 

[candide]

3 hours ago, candide said:

That was a very saddening event, but do you have any idea why there never was any court case on it?

 

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Could it be that the number of extrajudiciary killings were  exagerated or perhaps it will implicate the military direct involvement in the deaths.  

There is a chronological description of this event in the wikipedia page on Thaksin, in a section called war on drugs. I will not comment more.

[wakeupplease]

32 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Sorry but I don't think Thaksin is remotely close to Pridi.

 

 

Its about the lies and properganda used on Pridi are also used on Taksin, but with a different spin, perfected in the 40's by the thugs and used every day since to keep control by a minority who would in a civilsed country be in jail. They even change the laws to suit their thinking on a month to month basis.

 

lying to themselves is one thing but doing it time and time again to the world is another as the message it sends out is you can't trust them on anything.

 

Its time to think of the majority of locals who hate living like this, they deserve a better life than the constant bullS>>> that runs rampant around here.

[madusa]

9 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

The coup was staged not for the lower end of the people. It was done to ensure the establishment maintain their wealth and to keep the poor submissive. Look at those big projects which benefit only the rich, powerful and allied. To the poor, they give handouts which will feed them for few days but will not create long term benefits to lift their standard of living. Look at the education budget and compare that with the military budget. Listen to foreign and domestic investors who lament the political instability to make investment decisions. Coups causes massive lost economic opportunities and potentials. Some here still see them as the white knight. Delusional and short sighted lost souls. 

You are well informed Mr Eric Loh.  It also happen in Indonesia and other south east asian countries. In countries like this you pretend to be dumb and stupid  being too clever you may get murdered because they want to shut you up.

[MrPatrickThai]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

"On 20 February, Interior Minister, Chalerm Yubamrung, told parliament that  
 "... For drug dealers if they do not want to die, they had better quit staying on that road... drugs suppression in my time as Interior Minister will follow the approach of [former Prime Minister] Thaksin. If that will lead to 3,000-4,000 deaths of those who break the law, then so be it. That has to be done ... For those of you from the opposition party, I will say you care more about human rights than drug problems in Thailand."  

Yet his son, Duangchalerm, was seen by 22 eye witnesses shooting a policeman dead in a night club. Not only did the son get off, due to the witnesses forgetting, he is now a police marksman. This man is as bad as Taksin.

[Media1]

13 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

If the junta, and their justice system, were not so blatantly bias, the courts would be overflowing with the connected and their mates.

 

 

 

Yes you have saved me a post cheers

[Media1]

13 hours ago, Kieranmc said:

That would it junta. Keep poking the fire. A burning is coming. 

Oh Prayut the pretender forgot about him when he came into office lol. 

[AGareth2]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Drug Dealers Lives Matter

all lives matter

[JAG]

1 hour ago, jonclark said:

At what point does the political wrangling, nashing of teeth and finger pointing stop on TVF.

 

Trying to blame, shame and change the Thai political system on and English langugae internet forum is as likely to be as successful as a blind man trying to herd cats. 

 

Who cares if Eric / JAG /Lannaguy / steve100 or yourself are able to put together a more coherent arguement as to the righs wrongs and all the degrees inbetween if the varied and different factions thay masquarade as governments here. It makes no difference whatsoever and you wont change each others minds. 

 

 

It makes no difference in Thailand or to the Thais, but, at the risk of sounding pompous, if we, as members of an English Language forum, living here in Thailand, wish to debate these matters amongst ourselves, then it does matter , to us, who puts forward the most cohesive arguments, according to our varying interpretations of what is wrong and right.

Inevitably, to a significant extent, we live in a bubble, and this forum and its debates are part of this bubble. Only the most foolish, or misinformed, would believe that our discussions here carry any weight outside this forum. That does not make them any less valuable to us. If you grow impatient with them and can see no relevance in them, well then just ignore them.

Meanwhile, I will continue to argue these matters with my fellow expatriates. And I will continue to be rude to those whom I think are rude to others. I am scrupulously careful not to have such arguments with my Thai colleagues and friends. I learned long ago not to argue with "Best Beloved"!

[MyFriend You]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

True true, we can only speculate. Quite similar to the excessive use of lethal weapons and live rounds in 2010. As you said, it doesn't change the fact who was in charge and who gave the orders.

They are not going to want to open that can of worms..........you can b sure about that.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No one said that they did. But this topic is about that, is it?

 

So you do agree, Thakin was illegally misrepresenting himself at the time of the 2006 coup?

 

 

1

Your first sentence simply does not make sense.

 

Your second point is not relevant to my argument. Both coups prevented an entirely constitutional election. Those carrying out those coups must have been aware of that. It must have been a significant driver behind the coups, arguably the primary one.

 

In 2006 Thaksin may ormay not have been "illegally misrepresenting himself". He was entirely legally standing for election (and highly likely to win). The same is true of Yingluck in 2014. The conclusion is hard to ignore...

[bangrak]

9 hours ago, muluc said:

The Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders sentenced him to two years’ imprisonment on October 21, 2008.

 

But who was in charge  after he fled from thailand?

 

The political party he owns, it's called PTP...

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Did you also look at the percentage increase for military and decrease for education? That's the point I am making. Military budget up 7.3% and education down 0.6%. New here?

 

Just an attempt to save your failed point. And you failed again.

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Rightfully so and traditionally every previous governments allocate a large portion of the budget to education. You think the military budget should be more? 

 

No I don't, nor do I agree that the Education budget should be increased.

 

I can understand some of the spending on new equipment as a lot of the stuff is 30/40 even 50 years old and spares simply are not available and in the long term it really is cheaper to buy new kit.

 

OTOH some of the military purchases have bordered on the ridiculous, the blimp, the aircraft carier with no aircraft and the "mine detecting scandal spring to mind.

 

Education has TMK always had the biggest budget but despite that they have never come close to achieving even half their potential with that amount of money.

 

The quality of teachers is slowly (too slowly) getting better while the quality of management gets worse every year. The waste is prodigious and the school results are nowhere near worth the money that the budget supplies.

[tryasimight]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

You still quoting those unsubstantiated information of approx 3k extrajudiciary killings? I am disappointed. Thought you are a more knowledgeable and reasonable chap. 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs

 

This is interesting reading.....sort of blows you statements out of the water Eric

[tryasimight]

Getting back on topic about Thaksin facing more agony...there are a whole bunch of allegations and charges against him.

Let's assume for the moment that the Reds do get into power and form Government at some time in the future and try for an amnesty vote to enable Mr T to return triumphant.....I can see that being possible with all charges/convictions except.....wait for it...... the Lese Majeste charges...it would be a brave politician to support an amnesty for that.

 

The current Government may appear to be quite stupid to some of the posters here but methinks they have studied the art of chess to some extent and may have executed an eloquent checkmate.

[Jonah Tenner]

16 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Given that he isn't coming back and so will never suffer the consequences of any judgments, I doubt he will lose much sleep over new cases. Given also that the authorities know he isn't coming back, one wonders why they would bother.

 

Smoke and mirrors, more smoke and mirrors

[Jonah Tenner]

14 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

that would be actually doing something

I think that may be against the law...

[wwest5829]

On 10/7/2017 at 7:37 AM, darksidedog said:

Given that he isn't coming back and so will never suffer the consequences of any judgments, I doubt he will lose much sleep over new cases. Given also that the authorities know he isn't coming back, one wonders why they would bother.

Maybe the same political motivation I keep hearing that, "its Obama's fault".

[Ace of Pop]

China has it right. They execute folks who steal from the People. Job done.!.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[newatthis]

On 10/7/2017 at 7:50 AM, shanesox said:

Serves the Military government to keep talking about the Thaksins And making plans for their extradition . Keeps the peasants mind off their failings! Oh when’s the latest election date now.....2019 and counting


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Yes, the worst fault of people is being engrossed in the faults of others.

[Rimmer]

A troll post has  been removed

[robblok]

18 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Maybe Thaksin governments follow the judiciary process and do not influence or don't have the power to influence the agencies and courts to rush and target cases. I have no idea too but that seem the likely scenario.

Eric your so naive because you know otherwise.. just remember Tarit and the Abisith / Suthep case. That is a great case of showing how Thaksins his lot influences courts and rush to target cases. Its a clear example that makes your remark totally untrue. 

[yardrunner]

On 10/7/2017 at 7:21 AM, steven100 said:

good news ..... him & his sister are convicted criminals.

and many more Thai politicians are criminals who have not been convicted due to corruption

[candide]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Eric your so naive because you know otherwise.. just remember Tarit and the Abisith / Suthep case. That is a great case of showing how Thaksins his lot influences courts and rush to target cases. Its a clear example that makes your remark totally untrue. 

Governments may have an influence on launching or not cases, but little influence on courts or the NACC. The case you cite is a perfect illustration: despite the fact that 80/90 people died, the courts and the NACC never allowed any investigation. This case and other cases concerning the PAD, Suthep, military procurements, Rolls Royce scandal, etc... show that they are under another type of more long-lasting influence

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Governments may have an influence on launching or not cases, but little influence on courts or the NACC. The case you cite is a perfect illustration: despite the fact that 80/90 people died, the courts and the NACC never allowed any investigation. This case and other cases concerning the PAD, Suthep, military procurements, Rolls Royce scandal, etc... show that they are under another type of more long-lasting influence

No its an example that YL tries the same tricks the junta does.. she is just not as good at them. They all try to use the courts to punish their enemies. YL let tarit make up new rules to go after them and failed.

 

Its a shame it is the way it is, but they all do it going after their enemies once they are in power. I prefer a normal justice system but its still better as nothing and as i have proven with this case YL did the same using the courts to get what she wants she just failed.