Abhisit, academics criticise 'risky' new election delay

[smutcakes]

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

No this is what Thaksins amnesty caused.. don't forget that is what brought the people out and made it easy for the army.. Blame those who are to blame the Shins for their selfishness. 

People who protested do not really care about amnesty or corruption, if they did they would have been out protesting the current Government.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

People who protested do not really care about amnesty or corruption, if they did they would have been out protesting the current Government.

Sure try to rewrite history.. its what your side is good at. They came out against the amnesty against the corruption. The Shins with their amnesty made it easy for the junta. The amnesty brought the people out on the streets. You can try to rewrite history because it cast a shadow over your side. The fact remains without the people on the streets the coup either would not have happened or the junta its grip would not have been so solid. The Shins brought this on the country. 

[TKDfella]

I think the general consensus here at the moment is that the junta aren't going to go away. With Abhisit, it might be that this time he is talking genuinely, trouble is will anyone believe him? With the PM presently feeling high he probably feels that now he has the right to stay where he is and who can blame him. He hasn't had any real serious signals either from abroad or domestically to really challenge him or the regime. I could be wrong but from what I hear locally there isn't likely to be a challenge 'en masse' any time soon. I think civil war is a non starter, and so it should be, and I think the last war close to that definition was around the mid 15th century when the north and south 'kingdoms' went to war. However, there does appear continued unrest with farmers and others (not to mention the apparent academics  quoted in the OP) and the question is, will that continue to grow or simply be forgotten tomorrow if the PM spouts a few words Thai Patriotism?

[Hank Gunn]

2 hours ago, WhisperingJack said:

Thailand is not ready for Democracy - correct as you need and educated society for Democracy to work

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."

 

-Thomas Jefferson

[Ricardo]

2 hours ago, thairookie said:

Does anyone know what is Abhisit day job ?  That fellow doesn't seem to hold a job at all, especially after being stripped off from his PM post after a democratic election.

 

"after being stripped off from his PM post"

 

You appear to suggest that he didn't step-down properly, as indeed he (or anyone else) should do, after having lost an election ?

 

Would you care to expand on that ?

 

 

[candide]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure try to rewrite history.. its what your side is good at. They came out against the amnesty against the corruption. The Shins with their amnesty made it easy for the junta. The amnesty brought the people out on the streets. You can try to rewrite history because it cast a shadow over your side. The fact remains without the people on the streets the coup either would not have happened or the junta its grip would not have been so solid. The Shins brought this on the country. 

The first wave of protests was against the amnesty (against corruption with Suthep as leader, what a joke!). Then it was only about preventing elections to occur and taking power illegally.

[Becker]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure try to rewrite history.. its what your side is good at. They came out against the amnesty against the corruption. The Shins with their amnesty made it easy for the junta. The amnesty brought the people out on the streets. You can try to rewrite history because it cast a shadow over your side. The fact remains without the people on the streets the coup either would not have happened or the junta its grip would not have been so solid. The Shins brought this on the country. 

It seems to me that history is not on your side in this. If you look at how the military have done around 20 coups since 1932 it's clear they don't really need any excuse to take power.

The failed amnesty attempt by the elected government was conveniently used as an excuse for again taking power but if not that then they would have found something else.

And then the junta went ahead and gave themselves the mother of all amnesties. It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that.

[TKDfella]

6 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."

 

-Thomas Jefferson

And this type of philosophy goes back even further. But do you really think the present regime gives a hoot about such philosophy? I wonder if they have even heard of it.

[kaorop]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure try to rewrite history.. its what your side is good at. They came out against the amnesty against the corruption. The Shins with their amnesty made it easy for the junta. The amnesty brought the people out on the streets. You can try to rewrite history because it cast a shadow over your side. The fact remains without the people on the streets the coup either would not have happened or the junta its grip would not have been so solid. The Shins brought this on the country. 

and yet the current regime has amnesty, or do you refuse to accept that they do?

pretty sad when we are discussing "future" elections and yet you cant even join "today" Mr "lives in the past"

[LannaGuy]

Abhisit found his spine yet?  

Edited October 9, 2017 by LannaGuy

[LannaGuy]

28 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure try to rewrite history.. its what your side is good at. They came out against the amnesty against the corruption. The Shins with their amnesty made it easy for the junta. The amnesty brought the people out on the streets. You can try to rewrite history because it cast a shadow over your side. The fact remains without the people on the streets the coup either would not have happened or the junta its grip would not have been so solid. The Shins brought this on the country. 

 

Rubbish and after 22 coups you should know better. The Junta has given themselves "amnesty" or did you miss that bit?

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, Becker said:

It seems to me that history is not on your side in this. If you look at how the military have done around 20 coups since 1932 it's clear they don't really need any excuse to take power.

The failed amnesty attempt by the elected government was conveniently used as an excuse for again taking power but if not that then they would have found something else.

And then the junta went ahead and gave themselves the mother of all amnesties. It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that.

They do need an excuse to get support especially at the beginning. The larger their support is the more power they have and they had loads of support after trying to get Thaksin back. Its the arrogance of the Shins that caused this. Without large support it would have been totally difference. History has shown you too that times they did not have large support they were gone fast. 

[LannaGuy]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

They do need an excuse to get support especially at the beginning. The larger their support is the more power they have and they had loads of support after trying to get Thaksin back. Its the arrogance of the Shins that caused this. Without large support it would have been totally difference. History has shown you too that times they did not have large support they were gone fast. 

 

More rubbish robblok!  Elections show 'support' and votes are the only thing that 'should' count.  They never had 'loads of support' they had paid (500 a day) trucked in yellow bellies to deceive you.

 

Reds have won EVERY election because they are, dear robblok, the vast majority in this country.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

No this is what Thaksins amnesty caused.. don't forget that is what brought the people out and made it easy for the army.. Blame those who are to blame the Shins for their selfishness. 

Yes, and while we're about it let's blame the weather forecasters for the rain yesterday!

[baboon]

13 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Abhisit found his spine yet?  

I think he is just miffed that the army went off script and decided they liked wearing suits too. However he and others took that gamble and lost, so there is no point in crying foul when the house takes your chips away.

[spermwhale]

As I predicted to my friends and associates, the junta has no plans to give up power and once they hold an election, it will be preordained to ensure that a junta-friendly party wins and runs the country.

Now I've just started wrapping up my affairs here over the next 6 months, closing my business, waiting for the school year to finish for my kids and then I'm out of this place which is sliding towards a communist or one-party state. I'm not letting my kids grow up in this country anymore. Thailand held promise when  I moved here in 2003 as a booming and modernizing country but that's just vapor now, a fuzzy dream and thanks to the majority of Thai's apathy they are sliding into a totalitarianism. 

I'm sorry for the Thai people, as the majority of them are kind and gentle folk. 

 

[quadperfect]

This is just how so many thai people operate. They tell you exactly what you want to hear. They are deceptive.

This case the military .in 2014 they said 6 months. They change this day every few weeks and now look its so far down the road 2019

Once they have you they have you. No getting out of this one.

I bet this place will not see another election for decades.

I am so glad i did not relocate here and buy a villa and a car.

I thought before 2014 that i would like it here permanently. That was after 7 years staying around here.

Still like it but its never going to see my hard earned life savings invested. No way.

Tomorrow they can just chase everyone out if they feel like it.

Feel sorry for the honest people.

 

[wvavin]

Nothing can really be done because the army is the law of this land.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

No this is what Thaksins amnesty caused.. don't forget that is what brought the people out and made it easy for the army.. Blame those who are to blame the Shins for their selfishness. 

And we are back to "But, but, but.....Thaksin!"

 

Amnesty attempted then abandoned, protests that continued and exceeded legal bounds after the amnesty attempt withdrawn, an election stymied with violence and intimidation, protests dying of apathy, the military stages a coup to prevent the July 2014 elections, military government eliminates basic freedoms and human rights and promises elections in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018...

 

Go back to the old threads if you want to relive the past.  This one is about a military government that shows no intention of returning to democracy.

[jippytum]

Abhisit  was poor in opposition and in poorer still in office .Korn was the true leader with financial no how

[Bundooman]

6 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

And what is the alternative?

 

Someone with power ( & money) taking the country by force and doing whatever he wants...

Doesn't sound better to me, at least in a democracy the poor are seduced instead of oppressed.

"The poor are seduced instead of oppressed" - means the same thing.

 

Thaksin, under his "Democratic" government, was already stifling the press, preparing to insert himself as the ongoing PM in continuation of his expired term, was already looking at achieving a "higher" status for himself and family once certain devastating 'events' happened. Thailand was rapidly becoming a dictatorship under Thaksin back in 2007/8. I was here then and saw it for myself! So were many of you too.

 

The same thing was happening under Yingluck. The justice system was methodically being broken down. Checks and controls, scrutiny of plans, expenditure, accountability and transparency were being ignored and dismissed. So-called politicians were setting themselves up as a dictatorship. Yingluck and her cronies, operating under the blanket power of her elder brother were already planning his "innocence" and triumphant return to "Save Thailand". The country was in uproar and divided into what was fast approaching a "North and South" scenario, with some form of demarcation between Bangkok and the newly designated 'Red' capital of Chiang Mai.

 

Those of you who were here, like me, remember it well. "Burn Bangkok". "Kill them all" were threats of the day, reported by the various national newspapers. Thailand was going down the drain and you/we all knew it. Who do you think unleashed the military?

 

The present situation may not be palatable for some, but there is at least, some semblance of order in this country. Like it or not. Choice between Thaksin and Prayut? Prayut for me every time!

 

If you don't like it - deal with it or move on!

 

[sead]

I have Never, ever seen people that cares  so little about their own country as Thais. When discussing this issue they all say same. That none likes the military. But still no demonstrations etc. Passive people

[heybruce]

34 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

"The poor are seduced instead of oppressed" - means the same thing.

 

Thaksin, under his "Democratic" government, was already stifling the press, preparing to insert himself as the ongoing PM in continuation of his expired term, was already looking at achieving a "higher" status for himself and family once certain devastating 'events' happened. Thailand was rapidly becoming a dictatorship under Thaksin back in 2007/8. I was here then and saw it for myself! So were many of you too.

 

The same thing was happening under Yingluck. The justice system was methodically being broken down. Checks and controls, scrutiny of plans, expenditure, accountability and transparency were being ignored and dismissed. So-called politicians were setting themselves up as a dictatorship. Yingluck and her cronies, operating under the blanket power of her elder brother were already planning his "innocence" and triumphant return to "Save Thailand". The country was in uproar and divided into what was fast approaching a "North and South" scenario, with some form of demarcation between Bangkok and the newly designated 'Red' capital of Chiang Mai.

 

Those of you who were here, like me, remember it well. "Burn Bangkok". "Kill them all" were threats of the day, reported by the various national newspapers. Thailand was going down the drain and you/we all knew it. Who do you think unleashed the military?

 

The present situation may not be palatable for some, but there is at least, some semblance of order in this country. Like it or not. Choice between Thaksin and Prayut? Prayut for me every time!

 

If you don't like it - deal with it or move on!

 

Total BS, starting with your factual errors.  If you were here in 2007/2008 you were here after Thaksin had been removed in the 2006 coup.  Thaksin was using his money and ridiculous defamation laws to influence the press, just as all politicians do.  He didn't impose censorship as the military did.  

 

More to the point, Yingluck was elected in an internationally monitored election.  Lots of fools were saying lots of nonsense (and still are on this forum) however the protests never affected most of Thailand and were dying of apathy.  The coup was staged because the military wanted to be in power during the anticipated event, and they show no signs of leaving.

 

Funny how people who love the predictable stability of military rule never want to admit that they just like a government where people are told what to do and how to behave.  They invent all kinds of BS about why repression is necessary and for the best.

[LannaGuy]

1 hour ago, Bundooman said:

"The poor are seduced instead of oppressed" - means the same thing.

 

Thaksin, under his "Democratic" government, was already stifling the press, preparing to insert himself as the ongoing PM in continuation of his expired term, was already looking at achieving a "higher" status for himself and family once certain devastating 'events' happened. Thailand was rapidly becoming a dictatorship under Thaksin back in 2007/8. I was here then and saw it for myself! So were many of you too.

 

The same thing was happening under Yingluck. The justice system was methodically being broken down. Checks and controls, scrutiny of plans, expenditure, accountability and transparency were being ignored and dismissed. So-called politicians were setting themselves up as a dictatorship. Yingluck and her cronies, operating under the blanket power of her elder brother were already planning his "innocence" and triumphant return to "Save Thailand". The country was in uproar and divided into what was fast approaching a "North and South" scenario, with some form of demarcation between Bangkok and the newly designated 'Red' capital of Chiang Mai.

 

Those of you who were here, like me, remember it well. "Burn Bangkok". "Kill them all" were threats of the day, reported by the various national newspapers. Thailand was going down the drain and you/we all knew it. Who do you think unleashed the military?

 

The present situation may not be palatable for some, but there is at least, some semblance of order in this country. Like it or not. Choice between Thaksin and Prayut? Prayut for me every time!

 

If you don't like it - deal with it or move on!

 

"Prayut for me every time"  luckily for the Thai population what you think, or your twisted view of Thai history, means ZILCH.  Every Thai I know preferred the 'good old days' with Thaksin around than the stifled, conservative and reactionary Military Junta that you so obviously adore.

 

Let go of your 'but...but...but.... Thaksin'  rhetoric and move on.  Your foolish comments on the "Military" are naive at best and ignorant at worst. There has been TWENTY TWO coups and 20 were nothing to do with Thaksin.

Edited October 9, 2017 by LannaGuy

[connda]

The longer the process drags out and democratic elections are put off, the more likely the junta becomes seen in a negative light in the International community.  It's not a problem per se, unless the West suddenly has a foreign policy imperative that isn't embraced by the junta leaders.  Then the military junta may find that it quickly has been relabeled as a military dictatorial regime. 

[Happyman58]

Lets all just forget about the election Its getting to the stage it dont matter who is in power. Thailand is going backwards at a rate of knots. As the wife says who owns a business she has never seen it so bad. For once she is right as i drive around and see all the empty shops and empty houses. Also look at the tourists spots they are really doing it tough 

[chainarong]

Besides a fall off in support Prayut faces sovereign risk the more he procrastinates , dithers and side steps the election issue, however it's all very well criticising,  but the 64 dollar question , what are you going to do about it, now there's a challenge Mark................................... 

[Eric Loh]

27 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

Lets all just forget about the election Its getting to the stage it dont matter who is in power. Thailand is going backwards at a rate of knots. As the wife says who owns a business she has never seen it so bad. For once she is right as i drive around and see all the empty shops and empty houses. Also look at the tourists spots they are really doing it tough 

It is exactly the dire economic state that an election is critically needed. Not only that the cabinet is filled with incompetent generals that know nothing about economic, the junta government is cause of domestic and foreign investors jittery. Those feel good low bearing policies like clearing vendors off streets are causing lot of distress and hardship for the poor. If the junta delay election, the economy situation will deteriorate further. The big companies will continue to monopolize and get wealthier but the poor mass will suffer more and get an occasional handouts to keep them happy temporarily.

[Bundooman]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Total BS, starting with your factual errors.  If you were here in 2007/2008 you were here after Thaksin had been removed in the 2006 coup.  Thaksin was using his money and ridiculous defamation laws to influence the press, just as all politicians do.  He didn't impose censorship as the military did.  

 

More to the point, Yingluck was elected in an internationally monitored election.  Lots of fools were saying lots of nonsense (and still are on this forum) however the protests never affected most of Thailand and were dying of apathy.  The coup was staged because the military wanted to be in power during the anticipated event, and they show no signs of leaving.

 

Funny how people who love the predictable stability of military rule never want to admit that they just like a government where people are told what to do and how to behave.  They invent all kinds of BS about why repression is necessary and for the best.

I actually came here in  October, 2005. You, my nit-picking sneering little pratt, are using your bigoted little views to distort what was going on in this country. You are spouting nonsense. you deserve the mind set you have. you have conveniently avoided all those 7ft posters, nationwide, of Yingluck upholding a Samsung Galaxy notebook, accompanied by the slogan -"Every student in Thailand will receive one of these"

What they actually got, - Just the 1 million  M1-3 students - who were lucky, was a cheap Chinese game pad - all of which were never heard of again after 6 months.

Get your facts straight Brucie boy. Thaksin showed no sign of leaving either. Take your rose coloured glasses off and grow up. You sound like a young Thai male with a fragile ego. <deleted>!

 

 

 

[sjaak327]

Abhisit should remain quiet. His buddy Suthep is what brought all of this on. And if I remember correctly, he did nothing at all to stop it from happening. 

 

Remember the phrase, "be careful what you wish for". All uttered against deaf ears. No sympathy from me. Too bad the people that weren't utterly stupid are also affected.