Insecticidal soap for mealybugs in Thailand?

[a1falang]

Hello, looking for recommendations of insecticidal soap for use on hibiscus plants for specifically controlling/eliminating mealybugs that can be bought in Thailand, or eco-friendly alternatives if not available. Pictures of actual bottles with the Thai name and labeling would be ideal, so I can show shop assistants (I can't read or speak Thai and explain what I want to store staff).

[Thian]

Malathion should be good but i can't find it in thailand.

 

soap with oil is what i read on the web but it doesn't help.

 

I tried other chemical stuff but also that doesn't work.

 

I noticed that if you fertilize the tree's well the mealybugs also come. The ants will bring them but those things can also walk pretty fast i just noticed.

[cooked]

I tried a pretty potent poison on these bug@@@s, without much success. I then mixed wood vinegar with a dash of dish soap. Worked 100% although I also got rid of the ants, which seem to be a part of the picture, at the same time. (Permethrin in powder form).

letting the plants go soft through under watering or giving too much nitrogen seems to encourage the beasties

 

[green thumb]

Here is Malathion. Found it at the week end Garden Market up on Sukhumvit in Pattaya. 

[a1falang]

Thanks to Thian for the Malathion recommendation and to green thumb for the image!

[drtreelove]

Unless your hibiscus plant is huge, just hose off the mealy bugs with a jet of water. They usually was off quite easily; or wipe them off with a rag or cotton glove. 
This is called "mechanical control" in IPM.  Use boric acid bait for the ants that farm the insect pests for the honeydew. 

 

Come on over to IPM (Integrated Pest Management or Intelligent Plant Management) and leave the toxic hard chemistry behind. 

 

In any case, the use of contact insecticide sprays (Insecticidal soap or Malathion) for mealy bugs are not appropriate, unless you get the timing right when the immature stage, nymphs (crawlers) are present, usually in the spring.  The adult stage of this insect pest is covered with a protective waxy coating. 

 

Malathion is soooo old generation, out of date, unnecessary and out of favor with those who 'give a damn' about environmental and social responsibility. 

 

Insecticidal soap is organic program compatible, but I have only seen it on the shelf at a specialty organic shop. You can make your own.

 

It is correct information that over-fertilizing will stimulate excessive vegetative growth that attracts certain insect pests. Go with slow release natural fertilizers, build organic matter content and humic substances.  Healthy, fertile soil facilitates plant resistance to pests and diseases. 

 

There was a recent discussion on mealy bugs with additional information, on the Organic subforum. 

 

 

[Thian]

On 10/20/2017 at 2:55 PM, cooked said:

. I then mixed wood vinegar with a dash of dish soap

mixed with water or pure?

[cooked]

Wood vinegar is a gooey mass that you can't spray without diluting. I believe I diluted 1 / 200 parts. Killing the ants was an important part of the procedure I think.

[cooked]

17 hours ago, drtreelove said:

Unless your hibiscus plant is huge, just hose off the mealy bugs with a jet of water. They usually was off quite easily; or wipe them off with a rag or cotton glove. 
This is called "mechanical control" in IPM.  Use boric acid bait for the ants that farm the insect pests for the honeydew. 

 

Come on over to IPM (Integrated Pest Management or Intelligent Plant Management) and leave the toxic hard chemistry behind. 

 

In any case, the use of contact insecticide sprays (Insecticidal soap or Malathion) for mealy bugs are not appropriate, unless you get the timing right when the immature stage, nymphs (crawlers) are present, usually in the spring.  The adult stage of this insect pest is covered with a protective waxy coating. 

 

Malathion is soooo old generation, out of date, unnecessary and out of favor with those who 'give a damn' about environmental and social responsibility. 

 

Insecticidal soap is organic program compatible, but I have only seen it on the shelf at a specialty organic shop. You can make your own.

 

It is correct information that over-fertilizing will stimulate excessive vegetative growth that attracts certain insect pests. Go with slow release natural fertilizers, build organic matter content and humic substances.  Healthy, fertile soil facilitates plant resistance to pests and diseases. 

 

There was a recent discussion on mealy bugs with additional information, on the Organic subforum. 

 

 

Boric acid OR Borax (not the same) is hardly obtainable in small amounts in my experience, and I looked. It was taken off the market after a murder case and replaced by Formaldehyde in the vegetable markets.

[Thian]

On 10/29/2017 at 9:02 PM, cooked said:

Boric acid OR Borax (not the same) is hardly obtainable in small amounts in my experience, and I looked. It was taken off the market after a murder case and replaced by Formaldehyde in the vegetable markets.

I have a very small flacon with drippingnose against ants, it has boron and some more ingredients...they like to eat it.

 

And i have 1 litre woodvinegar in a white plastic bottle which is very liquid, and it foams like crazy when mixed with water under the tap. It's like liquid soap but liquid as water.

[cooked]

42 minutes ago, Thian said:

I have a very small flacon with drippingnose against ants, it has boron and some more ingredients...they like to eat it.

 

And i have 1 litre woodvinegar in a white plastic bottle which is very liquid, and it foams like crazy when mixed with water under the tap. It's like liquid soap but liquid as water.

I doubt that you have Boron, Borax more likely. Wood vinegar is not very liquid, you have a mixture of wood vinegar and something else.

[a1falang]

On 10/29/2017 at 3:39 AM, drtreelove said:

There was a recent discussion on mealy bugs with additional information, on the Organic subforum. 

 

Thank you for the additional info. I can't find this Organic subforum you mention. Please could you provide a link? 

[Thian]

39 minutes ago, cooked said:

I doubt that you have Boron, Borax more likely. Wood vinegar is not very liquid, you have a mixture of wood vinegar and something else.

I have woodvinegar from TPI, gold premium from a real gardensupplyshop in BKK..that brand has many more products.

 

also i have terro-pco from nisus:  sodium-tetraborate  decahydrate (borax) 5.4%...product of usa.  Borax contains boron fyi.

 

 

[cooked]

2 minutes ago, Thian said:

I have woodvinegar from TPI, gold premium from a real gardensupplyshop in BKK..that brand has many more products.

 

also i have terro-pco from nisus:  sodium-tetraborate  decahydrate (borax) 5.4%...product of usa.  Borax contains boron fyi.

 

 

Oh dear.

[Thian]

2 hours ago, cooked said:

Oh dear.

Guess they sold you molasses instead of woodvinegar. Or it was your bottle of lao kao 

[Thian]

http://wood-vinegar.blogspot.com/2015/12/TPI-Premium-Gold.html

 

 

Sell TPI wood vinegar (TPI) premium odorless Premium Gold! Removing insect pests from natural organic insects. Free of residues Safe to the user Consumers and the environment. Can be used indoors.

For friends Farmers, farmers and gardeners. Gardening at home I'm having problems. The aphids and insect pests. Eat your plants. And are looking for a safe helper. No toxic residue. Environmentally friendly Help solve the problem. To make life easier, easier, more secure. 

Wood vinegar TPI (TPI) Premium Gold Recipe! No smell, so it is an interesting help. To be an aid in the prevention and removal of insect pests and insect pests. Improves the efficiency of the fertilizer or spray to the leaves. Formula accelerates plant growth. Increasing agricultural productivity is good and safe for users. Consumers and the environment.
TPI wood vinegar (TPI) through the process of natural organic production. Free of toxic residues With manufacturing technology Modern with the heat until it is a high-performance wood vinegar. Wide range of applications in agriculture. Mix the water with the recommended ratio. Apply on the leaves or on the ground around the plant every 7-15 days as a pesticide. Insect repellent to eliminate termites, aphids, tapioca, aphids, aphids, cicada. And other insect pests. No residue or hazardous chemical ingredients.

It can also be used as an enhancer to capture plant leaves. To enhance the effectiveness of other substances. Sprayed Helps to cling to the sprayed substance. Reduce the loss of fertilizer or solution. Spray Well, too. And help spread the substance. Give all the leaves of the plant. Or the skin of a pest. The plant can absorb more substances into the mouth. It stimulates the growth of plants. 

When spraying wood vinegar spray on the leaves. Will help dust Do not block the mouth of plants. The photosynthetic plant is full. It grows well. Increased productivity as well.

Usage ratio of wood vinegar tpi (TPI) on water

• 1:50 ratio used for cassava, palm oil
• Ratio 1: 100 used for rice, sugarcane
• The ratio of 1: 200 is used for leafy vegetables, herbs and fruits.
• Ratio 1: 300 for flowers, ornamental plants, Thai fragrant flowers.
• The ratio of 1: 300 is used for leaf extraction to increase the efficiency of fertilizer. Or spray

Tips & Warnings: Using wood vinegar tpi (TPI)

• Should keep wood vinegar. Keep in the shade and dry. Temperature not over 35 degrees Celsius
• To maximize performance Avoid spraying in the sun and strong winds.
• Use TPI (TPI) wood vinegar in the recommended ratio.
• Should keep wood vinegar. Keep in safe Out of reach
• Do not eat Wood vinegar
• When the wood vinegar is used, it should be used within 1 month.

[Damrongsak]

Perhaps Neem oil combined with a soap (spreader-sticker) would help.  You might just find a coconut oil or castile Neem soap somewhere.  Might find Neem soap bars in an Indian store.
https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/173386-neem-oil/

 

Looking up "wood vinegar", it seems to be primarily acetic acid, acetone and methanol. 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Damrongsak

[cooked]

4 hours ago, Thian said:

Guess they sold you molasses instead of woodvinegar. Or it was your bottle of lao kao 

Oh dear, I bow to your superiority. 

[drtreelove]

10 hours ago, a1falang said:

 

Thank you for the additional info. I can't find this Organic subforum you mention. Please could you provide a link? 

The Organic Subforum link appears at the top of the Farming Forum home page.

[drtreelove]

On 10/29/2017 at 9:02 PM, cooked said:

Boric acid OR Borax (not the same) is hardly obtainable in small amounts in my experience, and I looked. It was taken off the market after a murder case and replaced by Formaldehyde in the vegetable markets.

Boric Acid available at pharmacies.  There was a discussion here a few years ago with sources noted and Thai name. Anybody have it?

 

1 Tablespoon of Boric Acid, 1 tsp of Sugar, 4 oz water, Cotton Balls.
Mix Boric Acid and Sugar in a bowl. This can be poured over a cotton wad in a small dish or bottle cap. Keep this from drying out for continued effectiveness. Place Cotton balls in path of Ants

 

 

 

 

 

[cooked]

Just now, drtreelove said:

Boric Acid available at pharmacies.  There was a discussion here a few years ago with sources noted and Thai name. Anybody have it?

 

1 Tablespoon of Boric Acid, 1 tsp of Sugar, 4 oz water, Cotton Balls.
Mix Boric Acid and Sugar in a bowl. This can be poured over a cotton wad in a small dish or bottle cap. Keep this from drying out for continued effectiveness. Place Cotton balls in path of Ants

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. At the risk of being told to lay off the Lao Khao, I did spend two hours walking to all kinds of shops including pharmacies and was told it was no longer available. I use Permethrin in powder form which doesn't need mixing with anything and is very effective.

[drtreelove]

Cooked is right, same same it would seem, but not the same. 

 

http://www.boricacid.net.au/six-reasons-why-boric-acid-better-borax

[green thumb]

This might be what your looking for. I asked at my pharmacy with the picture and she did seem to want to bring it in for me. I belive the contact location was for a pharmacy in Chang Mai.

[CLW]

@Dr Treelove You wrote in another thread about Dinotefuran aka Starkle G as a very potent systemic insecticide. However I can't get rid of the mites on my temple tree / Frangipani. Does it have no effect for mites or what is the reason?

[drtreelove]

Mites are arthropods but not insects. I don't think Starkle G or other dinotefuran products are labeled for mites. Look for a "miticide" or "acaricide". 

Hard chemistry miticide products includes abamectin,  a translaminar. Translaminar means it will penetrate through the leaf to both surfaces, which is needed for mites, but is not fully systemic. 

An organic program compatible alternative is repeated spraying with neem oil (clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil) insecticide, miticide, fungicide; not azadirachtin concentrate which is an insecticide only. 

 

Soil and water management are important. Build your soil with mineral and biological amendments and your plants will be more resistant to pests and diseases. 

[CLW]

Mites are arthropods but not insects. I don't think Starkle G or other dinotefuran products are labeled for mites. Look for a "miticide" or "acaricide". 

Hard chemistry miticide products includes abamectin,  a translaminar. Translaminar means it will penetrate through the leaf to both surfaces, which is needed for mites, but is not fully systemic. 

An organic program compatible alternative is repeated spraying with neem oil (clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil) insecticide, miticide, fungicide; not azadirachtin concentrate which is an insecticide only. 

 

Soil and water management are important. Build your soil with mineral and biological amendments and your plants will be more resistant to pests and diseases. 

Thank you! In the meantime I used organic pyrethrum extract mixed with canola oil. Seems to work against the mites. Have neem extract available also. Might try next time.

 

By the way, have you ever tried Spinosad? It's a new generation insecticide labelled for organic use.

 

Best regards!

 

[CLW]

Mites are arthropods but not insects. I don't think Starkle G or other dinotefuran products are labeled for mites. Look for a "miticide" or "acaricide". 
Hard chemistry miticide products includes abamectin,  a translaminar. Translaminar means it will penetrate through the leaf to both surfaces, which is needed for mites, but is not fully systemic. 
An organic program compatible alternative is repeated spraying with neem oil (clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil) insecticide, miticide, fungicide; not azadirachtin concentrate which is an insecticide only. 
 
Soil and water management are important. Build your soil with mineral and biological amendments and your plants will be more resistant to pests and diseases. 

I tried to add a screenshot of my product but it isn't working.
It's called Neudorff Spruzit. Natural pyrethrum extract + canola oil

[drtreelove]

The 70% neem oil may also be good for control of the common problem, rust fungus on plumeria, although I haven't tried it.

 

Spinosad is interesting and effective from what I've been told, but I haven't gone with that because of more affordable options for organic IPM that were available to me in California.  But I just retired, turned my small business over to a partner, and moved back to Thailand, so I'll once again be limited to what is available here.  (Although I've downsized to a small residential garden that's easy and cheap to care for.)  

 

I'm very interested in the pyrethrum product.  Where did you get it? I'm only finding German language references with a search.

 

New pest control product formulations for organic programs are numerous and on the rise in the US and elsewhere due to incredible demand, and therefore money for research and development. 

 

For mite control there is an interesting new product from Certis USA, a pioneer in biopesticide development. PFR 97 is a parasitic fungus that attacks mites. It's popular in organic strawberry cultivation as well as the huge legal cannabis industry in the US, with a common problem for growers being broad mites and spider mites. For home grown plumeria it's probably not worth while trying to import it. For a commercial operation, maybe.

 

 http://www.certisusa.com/pest_management_products/bioinsecticide/pfr-97_microbial_insecticide.htm

[CLW]

 
I'm very interested in the pyrethrum product.  Where did you get it? I'm only finding German language references with a search.

Yes you are correct. To my knowledge this product is only available in German speaking countries. Don't ask me why. It has EU approval and is available in commercial package sizes.
My parents brought it last time.