How do you feel about this?

[LaoPo]

Does any of you Gents have experience which any ATM bank machine giving the best rate for the Euro?

Baht 36.71 or so seems a lousy rate versus the middle rate of 39.10/Euro.

 

Apart from the Baht 220 they charge.

 

Friend of mine said a long time ago.... "Banks are legalised Mafia"....

[KhunBENQ]

36.71 obviously means that you fell for the ominous DCC (dynamic currency exchange).

Practically it means you (unnoticed) selected an option that allows the ATM issuing bank to do the exchange and debit your card in Euro instead of Thai Baht.

If you see an exchange rate at the ATM(!) you are on the wrong path.

Never accept a transaction where the machine shows your currency (EUR).

DON'T. Cancel.

 

If you do the normal path (being debited in Thai Baht) the exchange will be done by your card issuing bank/credit card organization (like VISA or Mastercard e.g.) and so the rate is the same at every ATM.

Just that in this case the Thai bank adds 220 Baht "fee" to your withdrawal amount (like 20220 instead of 20000).

AND possibly your home country bank adds another fee for using abroad.

Possibly: depends on your bank.

 

VISA Europe exchange rates can be looked up here:

https://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

 

Today's rate would be 38.935.

 

Questions (if you care to answer):

What card type do you use?

Which is the issuing bank?

What amount do you withdraw (typically)?

[Pib]

All ATMs provide the card-issuing network (i.e., Visa, Mastercard, etc) unless you accept a DCC rate possibly offered by the ATM which would be that bank's local DCC rate "and approx 3%  lower" than the card-issuing network rate. 

 

If the ATM offered you a "specific rate" that is their rip-off DCC rate---DO NOT accept it. Carefully read the screen choices as to how to continue on "without" accepting their rate which means you will get the higher card network rate.

 

Bank's love getting people to accept a DCC transaction as it's just approx 3% more profit for them at the person's expense.

[Pib]

Here is how Krungsri Bank ATMs used to display a DCC transaction.  Notice it offers a specific rate.   In this case you would select press the "Continue Without Conversion" option which basically means "No I don't want your rip-off lower DCC rate...I want to continue on and get the higher card-network exchange rate."

 

Yes, read their screen carefully as the bank will surely use Warm & Fuzzy and/or Vague wording in hopes of tricking you into accepting their DCC rate....and notice they don't even mention DCC anywhere.  But at least in Krungsri case then did mention the paragraph text their hedging rate will not exceed 3%....hedging rate is their way of saying a 3% lower exchange rate...more profit for them....more cost for you.

 

And don't think Krungsri Bank only does this just because of the picture below, most any Thai bank may offer you a DCC rate...a lot depends on the particular card you have....Mastercard cards seem to be more susceptible to being offered a DCC rate. 

 

I've used my Visa cards in Thailand for almost a decade now and have never been offered a DCC rate at an ATM, but I have been offered a DCC rate when making purchases.  I did not sign the receipt for signature, told the checkout clerk to rerun the transaction "in baht", they cancelled the first transaction, and then reran the transaction in baht....only takes a two minutes to do all of this...have had it done a half dozen times or so over the years here in Thailand.  When I'm in doubt if a merchant defaults to DCC or not as I'm handing the checkout clerk my card I make direct eye contact as I hand the card to them and tell them "charge in Thai baht."  

 

And if the ATM did "not" offer a DCC type screen similar to the Krungsri one below but the rate hitting your card's account was X-percent lower than the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate then that means your  "card-issuing" bank is applying a "foreign transaction/cross borders" fee.  Don't blame the Thai bank; blame your home country card-issuing bank for that.

 

DCC bad for the customer; DCC good for the bank/merchant.  Foreign transaction fees equally bad for the customer; good for the bank.

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Pib

[LaoPo]

3 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

36.71 obviously means that you fell for the ominous DCC (dynamic currency exchange).

Practically it means you (unnoticed) selected an option that allows the ATM issuing bank to do the exchange and debit your card in Euro instead of Thai Baht.

If you see an exchange rate at the ATM(!) you are on the wrong path.

Never accept a transaction where the machine shows your currency (EUR).

DON'T. Cancel.

 

If you do the normal path (being debited in Thai Baht) the exchange will be done by your card issuing bank/credit card organization (like VISA or Mastercard e.g.) and so the rate is the same at every ATM.

Just that in this case the Thai bank adds 220 Baht "fee" to your withdrawal amount (like 20220 instead of 20000).

AND possibly your home country bank adds another fee for using abroad.

Possibly: depends on your bank.

 

VISA Europe exchange rates can be looked up here:

https://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

 

Today's rate would be 38.935.

 

Questions (if you care to answer):

What card type do you use?

Which is the issuing bank?

What amount do you withdraw (typically)?

 

Thank you Khun BENQ and Khun Pib, for your input; happy with that!

 

I was "lucky' since I forgot to reset my bankcard (it's a MasterCard DEBIT Card, issued by ABN AMRO bank, a large bank in The Netherlands) on "outside Europe"...which resulted of course in a denied transaction. Stupid but lucky me.

I'd better not use CC to withdraw from an ATM since that will cost even more.

 

First I went to an ATM from the Krungsri bank indeed since they have a lot of these in Chiang Mai and the ATM initially showed and offered the Baht rate of 36.71 immediately which must have been the DCC rate which I denied but the whole transaction failed as said.

At first I thought it had something to do with either a scam (that the Baht 10K didn't come out) OR with the cremation funeral going on today since almost everything is closed.

 

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help again!

[JamJar]

18 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

Thank you Khun BENQ and Khun Pib, for your input; happy with that!

 

I was "lucky' since I forgot to reset my bankcard (it's a MasterCard DEBIT Card, issued by ABN AMRO bank, a large bank in The Netherlands) on "outside Europe"...which resulted of course in a denied transaction. Stupid but lucky me.

I'd better not use CC to withdraw from an ATM since that will cost even more.

 

First I went to an ATM from the Krungsri bank indeed since they have a lot of these in Chiang Mai and the ATM initially showed and offered the Baht rate of 36.71 immediately which must have been the DCC rate which I denied but the whole transaction failed as said.

At first I thought it had something to do with either a scam (that the Baht 10K didn't come out) OR with the cremation funeral going on today since almost everything is closed.

 

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help again!

 

A slightly better deal for you; https://n26.com/eu/pricing/

 

Quote

Free Mastercard payments

in any currency

Unlike most banks, there's no exchange rate markup.

Mastercard ATM withdrawals

in foreign currency 1,7% of withdrawal 

 

ABN AMRO charges you a ATM withdrawal fee in addition to taking a forex commission. Perhaps 2.25€ plus another 1.2%. Check for yourself. Add that to the rather nasty 5.60€ taken by the Thailand banks and that is 7.85€ in ATM withdrawal fees plus another 1.2% shaved of the exchange rate, for each ATM withdrawal. 

That is 11€ on a 255€ ATM transaction.

 

Quote

Withdrawing currencies other than the euro: € 2.25 + 1.2% exchange rate surcharge

Payments in currencies other than the euro: € 0.15 + 1.2% exchange rate surcharge per payment.

 

 

 

 

[LaoPo]

@JamJar 

 

I'm confused and have to study better since I'm not sure if I understand it.

 

Where's the catch for this company ? My money in their Bank..? I already have quite a few bank accounts.

I would have to register and open a bank account with this N26 company but need a physical card as well, don't I ?

That's a bit problematic since I'm traveling...

 

Besides: I was talking that I tried got withdraw with a DEBIT Bankcard and although it's also MasterCard confirmed it is not a Credit Card but I'm not sure if everyone understood.

 

Thanks and will study this N26 situation better in the next few days.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by LaoPo

[thailand49]

17 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

36.71 obviously means that you fell for the ominous DCC (dynamic currency exchange).

Practically it means you (unnoticed) selected an option that allows the ATM issuing bank to do the exchange and debit your card in Euro instead of Thai Baht.

If you see an exchange rate at the ATM(!) you are on the wrong path.

Never accept a transaction where the machine shows your currency (EUR).

DON'T. Cancel.

 

If you do the normal path (being debited in Thai Baht) the exchange will be done by your card issuing bank/credit card organization (like VISA or Mastercard e.g.) and so the rate is the same at every ATM.

Just that in this case the Thai bank adds 220 Baht "fee" to your withdrawal amount (like 20220 instead of 20000).

AND possibly your home country bank adds another fee for using abroad.

Possibly: depends on your bank.

 

VISA Europe exchange rates can be looked up here:

https://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

 

Today's rate would be 38.935.

 

Questions (if you care to answer):

What card type do you use?

Which is the issuing bank?

What amount do you withdraw (typically)?

This advice is spot on..

For personal reason I use a number of cards, including a Charles Schwab and two other Debit cards from my Credit union.

Not all foreign cards use the ATM will show you the bank exchange rate to be given, my Charles Schwab and Wells Fargo Bank cards goes directly to the current International rate ( which is higher ) so you won't see the suggested conversion which is by the bank.  If you do see the conversion rate suggested " DON'T PUSH THE "ACCEPT BUTTON"  PUSH THE "DO NOT" ACCEPT check you bank later and you will see you got a much higher rate.

Example for U.S. Dollar....

I go by the Exchange rate booth,  rate for 33.10,  at the ATM I place my credit union debit card, request 16,000 baht ( under 500.00 limit? )  after accepting the 220 fee,  the conversion message indicate something like 31.92,  you have two choices never pick "ACCEPT"  push DO NOT doing so won't cancel the transaction. 

If you can, go online and check your transaction which I do all the time and and find out by not accepting the rate is something more realistic like 32.75? 

 

Good luck and save some baht?

[padsist4]

Try using your debit card at the bank ask for Thai baht there is no 180 baht fee and you only pay your bank fee but you do get the best exchange rate the actual visa exchange rate in the uk we have a few cards that do not cost anything to use abroad we also have a Santander zero credit card that does the same no fee for using abroad

[LaoPo]

9 minutes ago, padsist4 said:

Try using your debit card at the bank ask for Thai baht there is no 180 baht fee and you only pay your bank fee but you do get the best exchange rate the actual visa exchange rate in the uk we have a few cards that do not cost anything to use abroad we also have a Santander zero credit card that does the same no fee for using abroad

 

Most ATM's demand Baht 220....right?

[Pib]

21 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

Most ATM's demand Baht 220....right?

Yeap, Bt180 is the charge from a couple of years ago that the great majority of Thai bank charged.  It use to be 150, then went to 180, then to 200, then to the current 220. 

 

Now AEON ATMs may still be at Bt150 according to their webpage I checked a few minutes ago. 

[natway09]

The actual exchange rate will be governed by the issuing bank of the card when using an ATM card

from overseas withdrawing Thai Baht. The fee for your using the local ATMs bank will be shown on the slip

 

[thecyclist]

I probably , without being aware of it, had the same problem using a Thai bank issued debit card(KTB) abroad. In Vietnam and in Laos drawing the maximum amount allowed and then comparing it to what the money changers offered for the Thai Baht, I lost 7% ,in Cambodia it was 4%, in Indonesia it was 0%.

But the ATMs in these countries didn't give me any options .

[Patanawet]

I also used ABN AMRO.

If I withdraw cash, I use SCB ATM machines. They always give you the choice of the DCC or local rates, just refuse the DCC. ABN also limit the cash withdrawals to 10k per day.

I say 'used to use ABN'  but they have decided to close the accounts of customers resident outside Nederland! So goodbye ABN AMRO after 30 years.

[LaoPo]

8 hours ago, Patanawet said:

I also used ABN AMRO.

If I withdraw cash, I use SCB ATM machines. They always give you the choice of the DCC or local rates, just refuse the DCC. ABN also limit the cash withdrawals to 10k per day.

I say 'used to use ABN'  but they have decided to close the accounts of customers resident outside Nederland! So

goodbye ABN AMRO after 30 years.

 

I took 20K today Friday Oct 27th, in the old town of CM, with an ABN AMRO Debit Card; no problem; could have taken 30K.

 

Maybe you can change your settings with ABN and change the limit; check their website. The rules change from time to time.

 

 

 

[LaoPo]

OK, this is what happened today, Friday October 27th in Chiang Mai:

 

I withdrew Baht 20.000 (+220 fees) = 20.220 at an exchange rate of 38,349201 with my ABN AMRO Debit card (MasterCard) 

Extra costs EUR 2,25 by my own bank ANN AMRO to be withdraw at a later stage (Baht roughly 92/93) baht.

Total conversion amount euro 527,26 today for the Baht 20.220

 

I can live with that, although I still find the Baht too strong and long for the days of more than Baht 50 to the Euro back in 2008/2009..... 

 

[JimGant]

Quote

The actual exchange rate will be governed by the issuing bank of the card when using an ATM card from overseas withdrawing Thai Baht.

Wrong.