Being Ignored - Do you say anything?

[autanic]

My two pence worth is this:

 

Don't try to speak Thai, you usually end up offending somebody.

Speak English slowly and loudly and with the most annoying slow way you can muster. 

 

It has two purposes:

1. You usually get what you want.

2. If they mutter some Thai insult to you, they will think you dont understand, when you do.

 

Lets face it everyone should be able to speak English and if they can't then simply speak slowly, they;ll get it. . . . eventually.

[autanic]

Just to add to my previous post.

 

Thailand has a caste system. It is not like the Indian System in any stretch of the imagination but it is there. There is a divide between the rich and the poor.

Obviously this could and as do apply to every country, but lets look at Thailand as this is Thai Visa.

 

I am fortunate enough to have several "friends" who work in high ranking jobs in the Thai Government. When we go out for lunch they speak English to one another, when they speak to the Waiter they speak Thai. This is because the ability to speak English shows that one is educated and of a certain social status.

 

Now many of us are fortunate to have English as a first and in many cases only language. 

 

So my point is this, when you next ruck up at where you are usually ignored, speak English and tell the other members of the your family not to speak Thai, but to just point there head diagonally like a confused dog when asked a question in Thai.

 

Here is an index for you.

 

1. You can speak English.

2. Even better, like me some of you are English.

3. If your not then you want to be English (tongue in cheek)

4. Use the social system knocked into every Thai Person since birth that speaking English means your better than everyone else.

5. Finally, if someone cannot or will not (yep does happen), speak English then you should remark about this fact so others can here you. There will always be someone happy to scanter over to show off their English speaking skills and either way you will not be ignored.

 

P.S.  If the cheeky 20 something Thai Girl with the nice arse is on her phone, forget all of the above, you have no chance no matter what language you speak.

 

Good Luck ! 

Edited November 13, 2017 by autanic

[Bang Bang]

1 hour ago, autanic said:

Speak English slowly and loudly and with the most annoying slow way you can muster. 

And they'll say to  themselves slowly but loudly that you're the most annoying farang they've seen in a while.

 

1 hour ago, autanic said:

I am fortunate enough to have several "friends" who work in high ranking jobs in the Thai Government. When we go out for lunch they speak English to one another, when they speak to the Waiter they speak Thai.

The only reason they speak English when you're there is because you're there. Once you've left they'll heave a collective sigh of relief and revert to Thai. (Yes, I have Thai friends with money and western PhDs.)

 

1 hour ago, autanic said:

This is because the ability to speak English shows that one is educated and of a certain social status.

BS actually. Thais are incredibly proud of their language and for not having ever been occupied or their culture "polluted" by foreigners (all arguable but that's the way they see it).

 

A Thai attempting to to speak English to another Thai would be seen as a dick, not upper-class. They'd never try it. This is not India where knowledge of English is a class marker.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Bang Bang

[Gecko123]

This is what gets me.

 

Some rheumy eyed toothless crone, a wad of chewing tobacco in one jowl and a wad of betel nut packed in the other, the tip of her tongue missing following a bout of mouth cancer, and everyone’s acting like they can understand every word that comes out of her mouth perfectly well. Listening to her, they say, is like listening to celestial music.

 

And then you come along.  You, who has practically made learning Thai your life’s work. You, still with all your teeth, a tongue that can knot a maraschino cherry stem, and a finely tuned ear. You, who has had lotus blossom and candle flame hallucinations, religious visions, and spiritual epiphanies while studying Thai. ‘Well’, they say, ‘we’re afraid we can’t understand a bloody word you’re saying.’

 

As Marvin Gay once sang: “Makes you wanna holler, and throw up both my hands.”

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Gecko123

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

OK, I'll explain to you why this is relevant to the topic so you can understand.

 

Many posters have suggested the reason a farang is being ignored in the first place is because the Thai people who are serving them in shops, restaurants, etc, know they will not be able to communicate with them... due to their lack of basic Thai language.  So, naturally they will speak to their Thai wives, family, rather than get into a pointless and confusing discussion with some farang who will not be able to communicate with them.

 

 

Get the idea?

 

Also, other posters think they can speak Thai and get angry when the Thai people don't understand them... when the problem is probably because they farang can not speak Thai well, correctly, or clearly because of the tonal nature of the language, or because they can't structure the sentence correctly to make themselves understood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't agree with that. I often go into stores and don't say anything- just get goods, pay and go, or in restaurants I point at what I want on the menu. Nothing at all to do with not being "able to communicate with them".

If they ignored me and wouldn't come when I waved at them, I would assume they were ignoring me on purpose, which has never happened to me.

 

If some farangs get angry in a shop/ restaurant without a real cause, they are just stupid and ignorant, but they shouldn't be ignored because the staff THINK they might get angry- that would be stupid and ignorant too.

[JLCrab]

I once walked into a high end mall shop shortly after opening hours and there were several young Thai staff there. A young woman came forward with a look of dread on her face. I asked her in my more than passable Thai:

 

What's the matter -- can't you speak Thai?

 

and the whole place cracked up.

[marko kok prong]

life's too short to worry about this,many Thai's have a mental block when falangs speak to them in Thai,they seem to think sounds like Thai but cannot be cos he falang, what i do still find annoying is my girlfriend[same as my ex wife] dropping me in mid conversation to yell at her kids/mother,or talk to her freinds,i have told this is considered bad manners by falangs,she says sort of sorry but then forgets,i after five years have given up on it now,as i would be constantly complaining,just the Thai way,notice how a group of Thai women all talk at once and cut over the top of each other. My girlfriend is great but she seems also to think when she phones her sister in Aussie she has to shout down the phone as it is a long way away ,i told her the other day if she shouted louder she would not need the phone,she liked this joke immensely.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:36 AM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Well, I did a six month course before I came here to live in 1990.

And you haven't learned 0-9??

 

Back then, many menus(outside tourist areas) were only in Thai numerals.

 

I know guys who can't tell what month it is, after many years!

Edited November 13, 2017 by MrPatrickThai

[MrPatrickThai]

On 11/12/2017 at 5:37 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

 

You ain't speaking Thai when you say 'check  bin' either, that's American pidgin .... 'Canna have the check please'.

Thai  is 'gep tang'.

I'd definitely write "gep dtung" but much more polite to say, "kit ngern"

 

[MrPatrickThai]

12 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

A Thai attempting to to speak English to another Thai would be seen as a dick, not upper-class. They'd never try it. This is not India where knowledge of English is a class marker.

I know a couple of real hi so Thais, educated from high school in the UK. They talk to each other in English. When the king was at one's wedding, he spoke English to the couple, of who was American. Some Thais call other Thais, "farang"!

[MrPatrickThai]

I need to get a new driver's license soon. 5 years ago,  the women said, "madame you where".

I said, she's at home watching the kids and doesn't get to drive my car(in Thai). 

 

 

[MrPatrickThai]

7 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

what i do still find annoying is my girlfriend[same as my ex wife] dropping me in mid conversation to yell at her kids/mother,or talk to her freinds,i have told this is considered bad manners by falangs

Shouldn't you, as the foreigner, adapt to Thai culture?

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Shouldn't you, as the foreigner, adapt to Thai culture?

 

When the word 'Culture' is used here in Thailand its most commonly used to excuse some poor, unacceptable or un-understandable behavior... 

 

The fact is that Thai's themselves wouldn't be pleased when faced with similar behavior. We may mistakenly wave it off as 'culture' when in fact it just simply poor manners, Thai's when caught out may 'claim' the Thai 'culture' card... i.e. 'its the Thai way' in a clumsy attempt to save face...

 

Ultimately Culture is rarely relevant - poor manners are poor manners wherever you are, with whomever you are conversing, in which ever language you are speaking....

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

When the word 'Culture' is used here in Thailand its most commonly used to excuse some poor, unacceptable or un-understandable behavior... 

 

The fact is that Thai's themselves wouldn't be pleased when faced with similar behavior. We may mistakenly wave it off as 'culture' when in fact it just simply poor manners, Thai's when caught out may 'claim' the Thai 'culture' card... i.e. 'its the Thai way' in a clumsy attempt to save face...

 

Ultimately Culture is rarely relevant - poor manners are poor manners wherever you are, with whomever you are conversing, in which ever language you are speaking....

Certainly is bad manners for a Thai g/f or wife to ignore her husband's requests. But I'm sure there are some things you think are ok, that she finds rude. Maybe blowing your nose on a handkerchief etc. That's what happens in mixed culture relationships. 

 

[MrPatrickThai]

14 hours ago, autanic said:

I am fortunate enough to have several "friends" who work in high ranking jobs in the Thai Government.

You mean they are teachers in a govt. school?

[richard_smith237]

13 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

 

14 hours ago, autanic said:

I am fortunate enough to have several "friends" who work in high ranking jobs in the Thai Government. When we go out for lunch they speak English to one another, when they speak to the Waiter they speak Thai.

The only reason they speak English when you're there is because you're there. Once you've left they'll heave a collective sigh of relief and revert to Thai. (Yes, I have Thai friends with money and western PhDs.)

 

14 hours ago, autanic said:

This is because the ability to speak English shows that one is educated and of a certain social status.

BS actually. Thais are incredibly proud of their language and for not having ever been occupied or their culture "polluted" by foreigners (all arguable but that's the way they see it).

 

A Thai attempting to to speak English to another Thai would be seen as a dick, not upper-class. They'd never try it. This is not India where knowledge of English is a class marker.

 

Many Thai's are now educated Internationally or at International Schools - their English is better than their Thai and some choose to speak in English amongst themselves. 

 

A number of my Thai Friends' kids also attend various International Schools here, when we all meet up the Kids are all speaking English to each other although they are all 100% Thai. 

 

I also agree with the comment that when with a group of well heeled Thai's they will primarily speak English for the sole benefit of the one non-Thai's present who's Thai skills are not up to scratch or up to the standard of the English of Thai's with whom we are conversing. Once departed it is more than feasible to assume that the language reverts back to Thai, although I see quite often that when the same Thai's do speak Thai with each other there are many English words and phrases that are slipped in amongst the Thai language - it almost becomes a hybrid language.

 

When in a service setting the waitress / shop assistant etc does not address you there is a simple answer... they are uncertain and frightened that there will be confusion and thus takes the most comfortable solution - ultimately their apparent poor manners have manifested out of a lack of confidence.

 

In this situation speaking Thai may help, but in many cases the 'eyes don't believe the ears' and the poor rabbit in the headlights you are attempting to communicate with will mentally panic and shut down until they reach the 'oh-horrrrr moment' when it dawns on them that the foreign face in front of them is speaking the same language they do....

 

..... but then again, I see my Wife is commonly misunderstood when I can clearly understand what she is saying, orders or conversations have to be repeated multiple times and then mistakes are still made (wrong orders etc)... its usually because the 'other party' is either from a province outside of Bangkok and is having difficulty with the Bangkok dialect (or lack of their home dialect) and is struggling with the accent or is just not very switched on is struggling to pay attention. 

 

I do find accurate, concise, efficient communication here a struggle even when language is not a barrier and its Thai on Thai, this is obviously compounded when Thai on foreigner. 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by richard_smith237

[Gruff]

On 11/12/2017 at 9:12 AM, jak2002003 said:

Then take a few minutes a day to understand it... it's not as difficult as it looks.  And, if you are living here (not just on holiday) it seems really lazy and rude not to even know some basic reading and speaking.  How would you like it if people came to your home country and did not even attempt to speak, or read your language after several years of living there?  

 

Also, it will make your life much easier and reduce a lot of the misunderstandings most farangs seem to get upset about here.  

 If you said that about learning cyrillic i would have agreed with you. But saying Thai script is not as dfficult as it looks is misleading.  It is very complex to learn, many very similar vowel clusters, plus the tone markers etc. It is hardwork trying to learn it.

 

Re people coming to the country i come from (UK) and speaking very limited English you would find that shop assistants and people in the street would try really hard to understand someone with weak English and would go out of their way to help, using intuition and imagination if necessary . Englsh people in particular are of course normally lazy in language and consequently really appreciate foreigners trying to speak it.

 

But oh how different is the Thai attitude as debated in this thread. It is very kind of people here to put a Thais failure down to lack of confidence, frankly it is very often ignoracne or stupidity. I spent ages trying to learn to speak reasonable Thai and only to find my efforts normally greeted with bad attitude (whatever the cause)

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

19 hours ago, Been there done that said:

Trust is in the eye of the beholder.

And the ear?

I've never "had a go" at anyone, just make sure they realise I do understand Thai.

To be fair it happens very rarely, and 99.9% are very friendly and polite.

I don't advertise speaking Thai, as it inevitably ends up with the usual set of questions that I am bored with answering.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Many Thai's are now educated Internationally or at International Schools - their English is better than their Thai and some choose to speak in English amongst themselves. 

 

A number of my Thai Friends' kids also attend various International Schools here, when we all meet up the Kids are all speaking English to each other although they are all 100% Thai. 

 

I also agree with the comment that when with a group of well heeled Thai's they will primarily speak English for the sole benefit of the one non-Thai's present who's Thai skills are not up to scratch or up to the standard of the English of Thai's with whom we are conversing. Once departed it is more than feasible to assume that the language reverts back to Thai, although I see quite often that when the same Thai's do speak Thai with each other there are many English words and phrases that are slipped in amongst the Thai language - it almost becomes a hybrid language.

 

When in a service setting the waitress / shop assistant etc does not address you there is a simple answer... they are uncertain and frightened that there will be confusion and thus takes the most comfortable solution - ultimately their apparent poor manners have manifested out of a lack of confidence.

 

In this situation speaking Thai may help, but in many cases the 'eyes don't believe the ears' and the poor rabbit in the headlights you are attempting to communicate with will mentally panic and shut down until they reach the 'oh-horrrrr moment' when it dawns on them that the foreign face in front of them is speaking the same language they do....

 

..... but then again, I see my Wife is commonly misunderstood when I can clearly understand what she is saying, orders or conversations have to be repeated multiple times and then mistakes are still made (wrong orders etc)... its usually because the 'other party' is either from a province outside of Bangkok and is having difficulty with the Bangkok dialect (or lack of their home dialect) and is struggling with the accent or is just not very switched on is struggling to pay attention. 

 

I do find accurate, concise, efficient communication here a struggle even when language is not a barrier and its Thai on Thai, this is obviously compounded when Thai on foreigner. 

 

 

Thanks, good comments.

I've met and know some Hi-So Thais educated in Australia or the west that speak among themselves in English, simply as it far more expressive. I think it depends on the general level of English of the company they are in.

I agree with your other observations too, "rabbit in the headlights" is a good analogy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

4 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

And you haven't learned 0-9??

Where did I say that?

I don't have a Thai keyboard and TV is conducted in English...

First thing I did learn as a tourist in the 80s was the numbers...

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

6 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I need to get a new driver's license soon. 5 years ago,  the women said, "madame you where".

I said, she's at home watching the kids and doesn't get to drive my car(in Thai). 

Right. Years back I had this conversation at an Immigration office:

IMM: Are you married or have a Thai girlfriend?

Me: Thai girlfriend.

IMM: Well why didn't you bring her with you?

Me: She doesn't speak English.

IMM: Oh... Next?

Edited November 13, 2017 by JLCrab

[MaeJoMTB]

8 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I know guys who can't tell what month it is, after many years!

November.

[Neeranam]

On 12/11/2017 at 12:23 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

mung - impolite term for you (goo - impolite term for I), dtaay - die

It's hard typing Thai when you aren't allowed to use Thai script.

 

What sort of teacher has never heard the kids saying it to each other?

Not to mention naming themselves in 'bargirl talk'.

The problem was that you wrote dtai as Thai.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, MaeJoMTB said:

November.

I'll get you didn't knows it in Thai, did you?

[mauGR1]

13 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I'd definitely write "gep dtung" but much more polite to say, "kit ngern"

 

I would transliterate " kep tang " ...

English speakers often complain about Thai transliteration.

It's the English transliteration of its own words which is confusing to other language speakers, imo.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

life's too short to worry about this,many Thai's have a mental block when falangs speak to them in Thai,they seem to think sounds like Thai but cannot be cos he falang, what i do still find annoying is my girlfriend[same as my ex wife] dropping me in mid conversation to yell at her kids/mother,or talk to her freinds,i have told this is considered bad manners by falangs,she says sort of sorry but then forgets,i after five years have given up on it now,as i would be constantly complaining,just the Thai way,notice how a group of Thai women all talk at once and cut over the top of each other. My girlfriend is great but she seems also to think when she phones her sister in Aussie she has to shout down the phone as it is a long way away ,i told her the other day if she shouted louder she would not need the phone,she liked this joke immensely.

Mental blocks all round then.

I met a guy in London once and got into conversation with him. When I told him I had been to Thailand he spoke to me in Thai, but I didn't know what he was saying. It was only after a while I realised I understood everything he had said, but because I'd expected him to speak in English my mind had put up a mental block.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Where did I say that?

I don't have a Thai keyboard and TV is conducted in English...

First thing I did learn as a tourist in the 80s was the numbers...

 

 

 

First thing I learned was "where is the toilet" .

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 12:56 PM, Gecko123 said:

This is what gets me.

 

Some rheumy eyed toothless crone, a wad of chewing tobacco in one jowl and a wad of betel nut packed in the other, the tip of her tongue missing following a bout of mouth cancer, and everyone’s acting like they can understand every word that comes out of her mouth perfectly well. Listening to her, they say, is like listening to celestial music.

 

And then you come along.  You, who has practically made learning Thai your life’s work. You, still with all your teeth, a tongue that can knot a maraschino cherry stem, and a finely tuned ear. You, who has had lotus blossom and candle flame hallucinations, religious visions, and spiritual epiphanies while studying Thai. ‘Well’, they say, ‘we’re afraid we can’t understand a bloody word you’re saying.’

 

As Marvin Gay once sang: “Makes you wanna holler, and throw up both my hands.”

 

 

This is what gets me.

 

Sitting in some Pattaya bar beer listening to some newbie farang rabbiting on to his new found love expecting her to understand his every word as he pontificates about the state of the world, and her nodding as though she does.

 

As Monty Python sang 

 

[grollies]

On 13/11/2017 at 12:56 PM, Gecko123 said:

This is what gets me.

 

Some rheumy eyed toothless crone, a wad of chewing tobacco in one jowl and a wad of betel nut packed in the other, the tip of her tongue missing following a bout of mouth cancer, and everyone’s acting like they can understand every word that comes out of her mouth perfectly well. Listening to her, they say, is like listening to celestial music.

 

And then you come along.  You, who has practically made learning Thai your life’s work. You, still with all your teeth, a tongue that can knot a maraschino cherry stem, and a finely tuned ear. You, who has had lotus blossom and candle flame hallucinations, religious visions, and spiritual epiphanies while studying Thai. ‘Well’, they say, ‘we’re afraid we can’t understand a bloody word you’re saying.’

 

As Marvin Gay once sang: “Makes you wanna holler, and throw up both my hands.”

 

 

Funniest post I've read this year, thanks - and so true.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

This is what gets me.

 

Sitting in some Pattaya bar beer listening to some newbie farang rabbiting on to his new found love expecting her to understand his every word as he pontificates about the state of the world, and her nodding as though she does.

 

As Monty Python sang 

 

Great, but Neil Innis was in the Bonzos, mates with Python boys and did contribute. Intro and Outro or my favourite (good song for Thailand):