Double glass in Condo anyone?

[Destiny1990]

Hi,

any people here who have installed double glass in their sliding doors going to balcony? Is it possible to add an extra glass layer to an already existing sliding door one glass layer system.? Or need replace whole single glass slide system?

what are the noticeable advantages of having double glass at ur condo?

[MJCM]

No idea about your questions if it’s possible.

I installed double pane upvc in my (now sold) condo, the most noticeable was the noise reduction. It was not cheap at 75k (about 5 years ago) but if I would live in a condo again I certainly would do it again.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

any people here who have installed double glass in their sliding doors going to balcony? Is it possible to add an extra glass layer to an already existing sliding door one glass layer system.? Or need replace whole single glass slide system?

what are the noticeable advantages of having double glass at ur condo?

 

I've been trying to find replacement double-glazed aluminium sliding doors for years without success. I dont like PVC which is much too thick and chunky for my taste, so I can only comment on aluminium.

 

I doubt that any sort of secondary glazing would work very well if your frames are anything like mine: cheap thin local rubbish, badly made, not fitted square and with no seals. And I doubt that the runners could support the extra weight of the glass.

 

From what I've found so far, local frames cannot be fitted (or retro-fitted) with double glazing. Imported frames can be made with double-glazed panels but the cost is very high here (in the hundreds of thousands of Baht for something that would cost just tens of thousands in the west). Also the few companies that do this here either dont respond to queries at all, or cant supply a proper quote, or cant actually perform the task of removing the old frames and dont know anyone who can do it.

 

They really are the most useless bunch I have ever come across.

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

I've been trying to find replacement double-glazed aluminium sliding doors for years without success. I dont like PVC which is much too thick and chunky for my taste, so I can only comment on aluminium.

 

I doubt that any sort of secondary glazing would work very well if your frames are anything like mine: cheap thin local rubbish, badly made, not fitted square and with no seals. And I doubt that the runners could support the extra weight of the glass.

 

From what I've found so far, local frames cannot be fitted (or retro-fitted) with double glazing. Imported frames can be made with double-glazed panels but the cost is very high here (in the hundreds of thousands of Baht for something that would cost just tens of thousands in the west). Also the few companies that do this here either dont respond to queries at all, or cant supply a proper quote, or cant actually perform the task of removing the old frames and dont know anyone who can do it.

 

They really are the most useless bunch I have ever come across.

U exaggerating now a bit or perhaps  u was in an agitated mood?.honesly most Thai workers are pretty skilled and can do a good job without long discussions. Anyway why would u consider double glass if it was possible?

Edited November 16, 2017 by Destiny1990

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

U exaggerating now a bit or perhaps  u was in an agitated mood?.honesly most Thai workers are pretty skilled and can do a good job without long discussions. Anyway why would u consider double glass if it was possible?

 

You seem to misunderstand my comments. I contacted several large companies that specialise in making aluminium doors and windows from imported frames. Several simply didnt reply to multiple requests for information. Some replied but were unable to provide a proper quote that covered the full cost, leaving many unanswered questions. Some provided a proper quote but would not do the entire job themselves and could not provide anyone to do the part they didnt want to do. Some answered and provided a quote and could do the whole job but were mindbogglingly expensive: quoting prices that would more than cover a complete renovation of my entire condo.

 

Just my in-depth experience of this subject over a period of several years. Make of it what you will.

 

Why would I consider double-glazing? Because I like the idea of reducing heat and sound transmission from outside. Seems straightforward to me. Why would I want good imported frames rather than cheap local ones? Because the imported ones fit properly and have proper seals, and are much more robust and long-lasting than the local sort. My local ones are literally falling apart after just a few years of moderate use, and they have never fitted properly since the condo was built. I had good quality frames in Europe so I do know the difference.

[cheeryble]

I'm well acquainted with one 25 year old building here.

It is fitted with the original bronze coloured aluminium and plain glass.

I have to say the windows still work well, and what amazes me is the rubber (butyl?) seal around the panes will still rebound after a thumbnail is pressed into it.

The paintwork is a bit old fashioned but more or less unblemished and the windows are all still waterproof. 

I've known of one or two wheels to break on sliding doors.....not surprising at this age.....easy to replace and never on windows AFAIK.

 

If it was noisy i'd certainly consider DG and wonder if someone can give some up to date examples. I'm building a small house and may make the bedroom into a soundproof zone, that would require just a couple of DG windows.

ps if I make it soundproof and we need to actually keep the windows shut i shall have a silent piped air pump very slowly changing the air to the room.

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by cheeryble

[simoh1490]

I had a condo at Floral on the 16th floor where I had a glass company widen the channel of all the windows and sliding doors to accept double glazed units. That worked OK'ish for heat but it would be ineffective for noise which ideally needs triple glazing that is spaced..

[trogers]

Seems to me the most important point was to have chosen a property that is not exposed to excessive noise and heat, rather than to seek remedies against them later.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, cheeryble said:

I'm well acquainted with one 25 year old building here.

It is fitted with the original bronze coloured aluminium and plain glass.

I have to say the windows still work well, and what amazes me is the rubber (butyl?) seal around the panes will still rebound after a thumbnail is pressed into it.

The paintwork is a bit old fashioned but more or less unblemished and the windows are all still waterproof. 

 

Well, that certainly exceeds the quality used in my building.

 

 

5 hours ago, cheeryble said:

I'm building a small house and may make the bedroom into a soundproof zone, that would require just a couple of DG windows.

 

For a new build I think you have a lot more choice in off-the-peg sizes, including some fairly good local frames available from places like HomePro. They are quite cheap.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I had a condo at Floral on the 16th floor where I had a glass company widen the channel of all the windows and sliding doors to accept double glazed units. That worked OK'ish for heat but it would be ineffective for noise which ideally needs triple glazing that is spaced..

 

Yes, I found one local shop that could do this but as you say it's only a partial solution. And they did point out that it would put a lot of strain on the runners of the sliding parts, and would be more suitable for the fixed parts.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, trogers said:

Seems to me the most important point was to have chosen a property that is not exposed to excessive noise and heat, rather than to seek remedies against them later.

 

I've never seen a condo in Pattaya yet that doesnt have hot air outside it, so good luck with that quest.

 

As for noise, who said that it was excessive? I just like to think that when renovating I'm using the best quality materials available, and in this case the idea of minimising occasional road noise, or the occasional noise from very distant religious and other celebrations, or even nearby noise like occasional rowdy kids in the pool, seems like a good plan. Yes, I could indeed have bought somewhere that wasnt near a main road but one of the reasons why I bought where I did is precisely because it is near a main road and public transport. So I'm after the best of both worlds.

[trogers]

9 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

I've never seen a condo in Pattaya yet that doesnt have hot air outside it, so good luck with that quest.

 

As for noise, who said that it was excessive? I just like to think that when renovating I'm using the best quality materials available, and in this case the idea of minimising occasional road noise, or the occasional noise from very distant religious and other celebrations, or even nearby noise like occasional rowdy kids in the pool, seems like a good plan. Yes, I could indeed have bought somewhere that wasnt near a main road but one of the reasons why I bought where I did is precisely because it is near a main road and public transport. So I'm after the best of both worlds.

Not excessive noise can be easily reduced by changing the 6mm glass to 10mm. Glare and heat can be handled by using films.

 

No need for double glazed.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, trogers said:

Not excessive noise can be easily reduced by changing the 6mm glass to 10mm. Glare and heat can be handled by using films.

 

No need for double glazed.

 

I can assure you that thicker glass certainly does not do the same job of noise reduction as a proper two-pane solution does. A very important part of the equation with noise reduction in glass actually being the gap between the two panes and another important part being the use of laminated material.

A good solution is two panes of different glass thickness, one being laminated, and with a large gap between the two panes. A less good solution would be one pane of laminated glass. A single pane of thick glass would be a relatively small improvement on a single pane of thin glass.

 

https://thesoundproofwindows.co.uk/noise-reduction-products/noise-reduction-glazing/

 

Plus of course thick glass, or even double-glazing, in crappy thin frames with no proper seals between panels will do nothing to prevent noise transfer through the frames and seals. Indeed, my own doors simply do not close fully as they are so badly made: you can actually push a finger between any two panels when the doors are closed. And my building is not unusual in this respect. Replacing the frames with similar thin local frames would not improve things greatly, so I think one is still looking at imported thick frames for a good result.

 

Glare and heat can indeed by handled to an extent by films (or E-glass which is better), but I would rather have any such solution built into a proper double-glazed panel and be done with it. The film on my existing windows has not stood up very well to the test of time.

 

So I would say that a proper solution requires thick well-made frames and proper double-glazed panels. The glass panels themselves actually seem to represent a fairly small part of the total cost when using imported frames.

[Destiny1990]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

You seem to misunderstand my comments. I contacted several large companies that specialise in making aluminium doors and windows from imported frames. Several simply didnt reply to multiple requests for information. Some replied but were unable to provide a proper quote that covered the full cost, leaving many unanswered questions. Some provided a proper quote but would not do the entire job themselves and could not provide anyone to do the part they didnt want to do. Some answered and provided a quote and could do the whole job but were mindbogglingly expensive: quoting prices that would more than cover a complete renovation of my entire condo.

 

Just my in-depth experience of this subject over a period of several years. Make of it what you will.

 

Why would I consider double-glazing? Because I like the idea of reducing heat and sound transmission from outside. Seems straightforward to me. Why would I want good imported frames rather than cheap local ones? Because the imported ones fit properly and have proper seals, and are much more robust and long-lasting than the local sort. My local ones are literally falling apart after just a few years of moderate use, and they have never fitted properly since the condo was built. I had good quality frames in Europe so I do know the difference.

I do have to agree about sliding doors it does remain a weak spot in units often after a while they stop to slide and also the locks no longer lock properly then it gets repaired but same problems 4 months later reappears.

[cheeryble]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Well, that certainly exceeds the quality used in my building.

 

 

 

For a new build I think you have a lot more choice in off-the-peg sizes, including some fairly good local frames available from places like HomePro. They are quite cheap.

Really? Double glazed at Homepro I'm surprised. Anyway thanks.

[AsiaCheese]

Just moved into a new condo with double-glass-everything. Absolutely brilliant: keeps almost 100% of noise out (dogs howling concert on the next property: very loud with open doors, nil with doors closed), slightly tinted (green) and keeps the heat out extremely well. The sliding doors are very heavy and run like on silk, as opposed to the runners on the brown aluminium doors in my old condo, and close properly - no draft, no nothing coming through.

 

The condo building is over 6 years old, and everything here is built to somewhat higher standards; I would imagine that there's quite a premium over run-of-the-mill sliding doors, but I would also imagine it's worth it in terms of noise, but also energy savings (aircon). No idea which company did it or where to get them though.

 

[thailand49]

You can, just go to a aluminum window shop and tell them what you want done.  I've had PVC done in a house in my opinion unless your roof is also insulated it is really pointless unless you want noise reduction. In a Condo since you normally have someone below and above not sure depends on reason?

[taiping]

I realize you may prefer aluminium frames, but last year I changed out my Bangkok condo lounge aluminium frame windows with double-glass PVC frames with expensive Low-E Insulated Glass, and I'm very pleased with the result.

ARC Component Manufacturing Rayong Co. Ltd, Tel: 038-223893. Ask to speak to Andreas Wegener. German engineering with a few Thai characteristics!

Edited November 17, 2017 by taiping

[Destiny1990]

14 minutes ago, taiping said:

I realize you may prefer aluminium frames, but last year I changed out my Bangkok condo lounge aluminium frame windows with double-glass PVC frames with expensive Low-E Insulated Glass, and I'm very pleased with the result.

ARC Component Manufacturing Rayong Co. Ltd, Tel: 038-223893. Ask to speak to Andreas Wegener. German engineering with a few Thai characteristics!

Any photos of that Pvc frame with the E glass?

[wallybee]

Get in touch with Thai German Glass Co. Bangkok. Use laminated glass with A-PVC laminate, can have it in E-glass quality. Use something like 8/11 laminate, always one odd, one even.

Aluminium does not accommodate that thickness, I think only 10 or 12 mm., so use UPVC.

Installed years ago, no more TukTuk concerto's

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

You can, just go to a aluminum window shop and tell them what you want done. 

 

I've been to literally dozens of local aluminium shops and didnt find one that carries decent quality frames suitable for double-glazing.They all stock the thin 1mm-1.2mm frames which bend and flex like nobody's business, and which have runners that are hugely under-spec and can barely support the weight of a single pane of thin glass. Cheap and nasty.

[chatette]

I  was after double-glazed but couldn't find 10 years ago when refurbishing our condo and instead settled for Deceuninck uPVC window system and am very happy with my choice. The local supplier is here http://inoutic.co.th/

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

I can assure you that thicker glass certainly does not do the same job of noise reduction as a proper two-pane solution does. A very important part of the equation with noise reduction in glass actually being the gap between the two panes and another important part being the use of laminated material.

A good solution is two panes of different glass thickness, one being laminated, and with a large gap between the two panes. A less good solution would be one pane of laminated glass. A single pane of thick glass would be a relatively small improvement on a single pane of thin glass.

 

https://thesoundproofwindows.co.uk/noise-reduction-products/noise-reduction-glazing/

 

Plus of course thick glass, or even double-glazing, in crappy thin frames with no proper seals between panels will do nothing to prevent noise transfer through the frames and seals. Indeed, my own doors simply do not close fully as they are so badly made: you can actually push a finger between any two panels when the doors are closed. And my building is not unusual in this respect. Replacing the frames with similar thin local frames would not improve things greatly, so I think one is still looking at imported thick frames for a good result.

 

Glare and heat can indeed by handled to an extent by films (or E-glass which is better), but I would rather have any such solution built into a proper double-glazed panel and be done with it. The film on my existing windows has not stood up very well to the test of time.

 

So I would say that a proper solution requires thick well-made frames and proper double-glazed panels. The glass panels themselves actually seem to represent a fairly small part of the total cost when using imported frames.

I can confirm that laminated glass 4mm 1.52PVB 4mm  then a gap of 8mm argon filled and an inner 5mm is really great for sound reduction.

I've tested it with an almost deafening level of sound inside and outside just beside the windows and doors you could just hear it.

 

My windows and doors are PVC 

[elgenon]

Dual pane glass is sealed with either a vacuum or a gas in between. Reduces noise and heat because the vacuum or gas does not transmit either well.

[Jonnapat]

13 hours ago, trogers said:

Seems to me the most important point was to have chosen a property that is not exposed to excessive noise and heat, rather than to seek remedies against them later.

Easier said than done in this country

[topt]

2 hours ago, chatette said:

I  was after double-glazed but couldn't find 10 years ago when refurbishing our condo and instead settled for Deceuninck uPVC window system and am very happy with my choice. The local supplier is here http://inoutic.co.th/

They have been doing double glazed units for their uPVC profiles for at least 7 years now - when I first had them do a casement door.

[Foozool]

Aluminum sliding windows are not really sound seal in Thailand even if they are double payn. PVC double payn would do a better job and stop both noise and heat.

But about fixed windows (not sliding/not openable) there are great cheap project ideas around.

 

[bazza73]

15 hours ago, trogers said:

Seems to me the most important point was to have chosen a property that is not exposed to excessive noise and heat, rather than to seek remedies against them later.

Wow, a post that is common sense. Well done.

[scubascuba3]

Everyone getting different windows really makes a condo block look cheap and nasty

[Destiny1990]

19 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Everyone getting different windows really makes a condo block look cheap and nasty

Get over it!

some with install window film, some hang up a screens, other install plants and umbrellas , others cover their balcony with LED lights and now ur heart breaks?