Improving entry for Thailand may help Thai tourist industry.

[David Walden]

I put this on another site on Thai Visa in reply to another post regarding electrical wiring and faults in Thailand, perhaps it should be a separate item.

 

Maybe that is why the tourist are well down in Thailand in spite of the stories the Thai tourist Dept tells anyone.  I was in Thailand for 3 months during the lead up to the Kings passing last year and after?  I am in Cha-am at the same time this year as last year.  There is clear evidence that tourist population is down perhaps 40% on same time,  that is spending is down 40%.  We know that Chinese tourists numbers are up but the much higher spending Western tourist numbers (40 to 60 Y/O ) are down in spite of what Thai Tourist Dept. tells people, it's all about how much money comes in, not how many people come in.  Getting a 60 day tourist visa is a pain in the neck also,  you have to go through a complicated application process in your own country before departing so most tourist only stay up to 30 days. Most S/E Asia Countries now have 90 day on arrival tourist visas, not Thailand. You then have to go through another more complicated process in Thailand if you want to extend you 60 day visa to 90 days in Thailand  (can take all day).  Much of the economy is being supported by the modest spending retirees living in Thailand.  Making retirement visas easier to get for retirees would improve things.  Just ask any tourist operator in Hue Hin, Cha-am, Pattaya or just about any tourist location in all Thailand, all are struggling...perhaps it's Donald Trumps fault with all the fake news around.

[dotpoom]

I was listening to the radio from back home in Western Europe a few days ago. The topic was about our dept. of tourism paying the air fares (to all parts if the globe) of people who could promote our country's culture abroad with the expection of bringing more tourists to our small country....people like musicitians, documentary makers etc.,

    Interesting stuff. ...The very last caller to the programme rang in to say that this was all very well and good and a fine thing for our government to be doing.......But how come after trying on three occasions to bring his Phillipino girlfriend to the same country for a holiday, he couldn't get a visa for her?

  Must admit....he made a great point.

[mstevens]

I am currently in Bangkok on a short stay and there are a lot of visitors around and many restaurants and shops busy.  Cannot comment on anywhere else but central Bangkok feels busy to me with visitors everywhere.

[geisha]

I still enjoy my winter breaks in Thailand. Yes, the whole visa rigmarole is getting very complicated , more so every year. Although I do think that Thailand is not the sought after destination it used to be. Normal tourists have a lot of choice these days and most of the tourist resorts in Thailand cannot really be described as " beautiful" or " exotic" can they? All of my friends , who used to spend their winters in Phuket ,don't go there any more, fed up of being ripped off ! The trash , the hanging wires, ugly deteriorated buildings , broken pavements , taxi scams, etc, and now the fact that it isn't cheap any more, in my opinion , translates into less tourists. Of course the average Joe Chinese will keep coming , its mostly because they want counterfeit goods. You don't see them in the restaurants or on the beach , just a few hours on a bus suits them, clogging up all the roads with their parking and fumes! 

[electric]

30 day free visa exempt entry into Thailand is hugely convenient, and I suggest more than enough time for the average visitor. Doesn't get any simpler. Arrive at Swampy and get 30 days free.

 

Welcome to Thailand.

 

Think about the overseas holidays you had during your working years. How often did you need more than a month in any country ?

 

Even the 60 day Tourist Visa is silly simple to get from a Thai Consulate in farang land.

 

I don't know how Thai Immi can make entry to LOS any easier than it already is for the short term holiday maker.

 

Certainly, long term stayers in LOS face a different scenario, but this topic is about helping the Thai tourist industry, which realistically means short term visitors.

 

 

[David Walden]

Everyone that goes to Malaysia as a tourist even if your only staying for a day or 2 gets a 90 day tourist visa.  So is also the case with many S/E Asia countries.  Many Australians go to Cambodia to live part time on 90 day tourist visas.  You can just extend your visa by using a travel agent to do it all for you for about US $35.  This is just one way of many way to improve tourist numbers in Thailand.  I do have a retirement visa issued in Australia for Thailand but it's all complicated.  It's much simpler if you do the back and forth trips to Cambodia and simple and air fares are quite cheap.  especially from Western Australia.

[stud858]

Natural human responses of those in charge of immigration ministry in each and every country.

Decisions based on race rather than Goodness. Don't panic though. It is all as normal as god intended. 

World Cup in Russia. Hope to get a no fuss visa for that.

All in all, Thailand pretty good when you get past the complaining stage.

 

 

 

[observer90210]

Agree with the OP that visa issues and formalities for the 50+ retiree non immigrant expats, wanting to stay say just 6 months a year, must be softened quite a bit...or else the kingdom will loose precious financial gains and the neighbouring countries will benefit.

Edited November 17, 2017 by observer90210

[Aditi Sharma]

I have a good mind to go to Greece and but for the ridiculous inflation and the libido of the armed gangs there, there is so much to explore in South America as well beach-wise and otherwise. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
quote removed

[Aditi Sharma]

Tourist numbers and how much they spent during the year, statistics of the kind are best left to the government. Getting a refreshing cup of tea in Thailand is tough. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

Many Australians go to Cambodia to live part time on 90 day tourist visas.

No such thing, of which I am aware.  Maybe they get one of the new flavors of "ordinary" (E) visa (only 30-days, same as tourist) and extend via an agent?  That is easy enough to do - don't have to wait in line anywhere, prove where you live, etc; the hotel or guesthouse will take care of it.

 

[Marc K]

11 hours ago, electric said:

Even the 60 day Tourist Visa is silly simple to get from a Thai Consulate in farang land.

 

I wish that were true. My experience last time at the consulate in Hawaii (May 2017) was anything but "silly simple", requiring income statements, and cost $40 and a second trip across town to pick up the completed visa.

And the extension (to 90 days) process in Jomtien was anything but simple, and certainly not cheap. My landlord had apparently not reported my residency a second time (after I interrupted the stay in Thailand to go to Cambodia for a week or so) and so I had to use the "fixers" who stand outside the coffee kiosk at the immigration office who ended up charging me 4,000B to grease the extension, and was told that that was a "special price". In fact one "agent" had quoted me 5,500B. Oh my.

 

[Maestro]

16 hours ago, David Walden said:

Maybe that is why the tourist are well down in Thailand in spite of the stories the Thai tourist Dept tells anyone.

 

What has given you the impression that "the tourist is well down in Thailand? What numbers are you using?

[pattayadgw]

Immigration should go for a trip to Malaysia and see how slick the service is for entering the country.  No card / form to fill in... up to immigration desk.... passport scanned...  finger prints taken in machine... office may ask you why are you there.... have a nice trip... thats it!!

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

What has given you the impression that "the tourist is well down in Thailand? What numbers are you using?

Continued complaining by Bar owners, massage girls, taxi drivers and hotels that may be 10% occupied.  All you have to do is open thyne eyes and yee shall see...give it a go.

[David Walden]

15 hours ago, electric said:

30 day free visa exempt entry into Thailand is hugely convenient, and I suggest more than enough time for the average visitor. Doesn't get any simpler. Arrive at Swampy and get 30 days free.

 

Welcome to Thailand.

 

Think about the overseas holidays you had during your working years. How often did you need more than a month in any country ?

 

Even the 60 day Tourist Visa is silly simple to get from a Thai Consulate in farang land.

 

I don't know how Thai Immi can make entry to LOS any easier than it already is for the short term holiday maker.

 

Certainly, long term stayers in LOS face a different scenario, but this topic is about helping the Thai tourist industry, which realistically means short term visitors.

 

You put a post on another site in Thaivisa this is my reply...

Quote

I'm not sure you have any idea what you are talking about.  To get a holiday Tourist Visa for Thailand in Australia which you will be able to stay 3 months for a first time applicant is quite a complicated procedure, you must get it in Aus (not on arrival).  I have covered my experience in applying on other posts on Thai Visa, they are complicated to say the least.  It is really 2 visas, one for the 1st 60 days and then an extension for 30 days which you can do at Thai immigration in Thailand.  The 1st 60 days you need a current hard copy bank statement from your bank showing Aus $800 credit no older then 5 days ( not easy for online accounts at short notice), hotel booking confirmation, exact date of arrival and flight number of arrival, supply of passport photographs, an application forms and 2 sets of copies filled in correctly, pass port pictures (not older then 6 months) and copies of your passport as well as actual pass port, all delivered or posted to a Thai Consul in your Australian State with the application fee $55 I think now.  Then wait anything up to 10 days (18 days on one time for me) to get the 1st 60 day part ...then once in Thailand after about 55 days you do much the same all over again at Thai Immigration (only in the Provence where you live) to get the 30 day extension which can take up all day if you are a novice and don't get it right, I can tell you it's really a new application, for a novice it can be tough going.  In Malaysia and many other countries you stop at the immigration desk, put you thumb on the spot, put your passport on another spot, look at the camera and bingo you have a 90 day tourist visa, don't have to tell them your coming.  Not a 30 day visa, it's a 90 day tourist visa that takes about 30 seconds.

 

There are thousands of retirees who would like to come to Thailand for 3 months at a time and then go back home and do it once or twice a year E.G Me.  I now have a retirement visa issued in Australia but I still do the 3 months bit at 2 times a year.  The outlook is I may stay for longer periods.

 

I can tell you Thailand is retirement heaven for older single men and I don't just mean the girlie bits.  Western countries have a lot to learn about retirement for older men.

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by David Walden

[YetAnother]

19 hours ago, David Walden said:

Much of the economy is being supported by the modest spending retirees living in Thailand.  Making retirement visas easier to get for retirees would improve things.

there are intelligent and frequent posters here that have good reasons for believing that thailand wants the exact opposite; namely, to weed out and thin out us long-stayers

[FritsSikkink]

14 hours ago, David Walden said:

Everyone that goes to Malaysia as a tourist even if your only staying for a day or 2 gets a 90 day tourist visa.  So is also the case with many S/E Asia countries.  Many Australians go to Cambodia to live part time on 90 day tourist visas.  You can just extend your visa by using a travel agent to do it all for you for about US $35.  This is just one way of many way to improve tourist numbers in Thailand.  I do have a retirement visa issued in Australia for Thailand but it's all complicated.  It's much simpler if you do the back and forth trips to Cambodia and simple and air fares are quite cheap.  especially from Western Australia.

Tourism isn't down, only in the western orientated bars and restaurants. Do you know what the Chinese spend compared to the western tourists? Facts please.

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Tourism isn't down, only in the western orientated bars and restaurants. Do you know what the Chinese spend compared to the western tourists? Facts please.

Yes thats right, I was about to post the same. Tourist numbers are not down, western expats contribute but are not single handedly proping up the ecomomy, not everyone goes to bars and massage shops, so not a great source of information about tourist numbers..

 

Chinese actually have the highest daily spend (but they stay a short time).

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Peterw42

[Peterw42]

A lot of relevant data on this website, who comes here, what they spend, how long they stay etc. 

 

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

 

Sure, some of the visa's and application could be improved but not for the sake of helping tourist numbers, that increases every year. If the system isnt broken, why fix it ?

[David Walden]

52 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Tourism isn't down, only in the western orientated bars and restaurants. Do you know what the Chinese spend compared to the western tourists? Facts please.

Are you suggesting that if tourists on holidays did not frequent bars and restaurants in Thailand we would all go to heaven.  Sounds like you get your advice from the Pope.

[Orton Rd]

How does anyone know how much a nationality spends, apart from on recorded hotel expenses?

[David Walden]

54 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes thats right, I was about to post the same. Tourist numbers are not down, western expats contribute but are not single handedly proping up the ecomomy, not everyone goes to bars and massage shops, so not a great source of information about tourist numbers..

 

Chinese actually have the highest daily spend (but they stay a short time).

 

 

I would suggest you figures are at the higher end of the tourist trade which perhaps represents only a small part of this industry.   Even blind Freddie could tell you that in Chiang Mai Chinese tourists would spend only a fraction of what your graphs suggests $US 174.68 per day.  More like $30/40 or less per day on conducted holiday tours managed by Chinese interest only.

Edited November 18, 2017 by David Walden

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

How does anyone know how much a nationality spends, apart from on recorded hotel expenses?

On any given day/week/month they know how many people are visiting from a particular country, on any given day/week/ month they know how much foreign exchange (atm, currency booths, transfers) from a particular country. Not a hard calculation.

[steve187]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

On any given day/week/month they know how many people are visiting from a particular country, on any given day/week/ month they know how much foreign exchange (atm, currency booths, transfers) from a particular country. Not a hard calculation.

Do they know i changed £1200 yesterday in a small exchange on Jomtein beach road. (43.25)

how many of those arrivals are passengers flying straight out again, as Bangkok is a hub( they are a hub for many things)

how many of those arrivals are just border hops to deal with the 30 day visa exempt entries they got last month.

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I would suggest you figures are at the higher end of the tourist trade which perhaps represents only a small part of this industry.   Even blind Freddie could tell you that in Chiang Mai Chinese tourists would spend only a fraction of what your graphs suggests $US 174.68 per day.  more like $30/40 or less per day on conducted holiday tours managed by Chinese interest only.

At the same time there is a cashed up Chinese tourist spending $200 a day in Bangkok. Its foreign exchange from china divided by number of people from china. I would tend to think its a bit more accurate than the local bar owner/taxi driver/massage girl. Demographics have changed, russian families, single chinese girls.

[007cableguy]

Its still pretty easy at Hull to do the 60 day visa !, In fact they did mine on the day of the kings funeral just had to call the office when i got there and he let me in ! (Should of been closed but he dated the visa the 25th )was talking to the guy and he said that they used to turn over 80 multi o's a day before they changed the rules ,That adds up to a fair wedge they are losing every day !!

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, YetAnother said:

there are intelligent and frequent posters here that have good reasons for believing that thailand wants the exact opposite; namely, to weed out and thin out us long-stayers

Perhaps you have a point  but I don't think so.

[Orton Rd]

25 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

On any given day/week/month they know how many people are visiting from a particular country, on any given day/week/ month they know how much foreign exchange (atm, currency booths, transfers) from a particular country. Not a hard calculation.

Not everyone uses ATM and do you really think they collate from the records of all the exchange outlets? It's guesswork more like just based on the numbers, which is why the hardly spend at all Chinese rate so highly.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, steve187 said:

Do they know i changed £1200 yesterday in a small exchange on Jomtein beach road. (43.25)

how many of those arrivals are passengers flying straight out again, as Bangkok is a hub( they are a hub for many things)

how many of those arrivals are just border hops to deal with the 30 day visa exempt entries they got last month.

Yes, all foreign exchange is accounted for, and all brits departing and arriving are accounted for. So at 11:59 last night they knew, to the baht, how many pounds were exchanged and to the person how many brits are in Thailand. Its not hard to marry the 2 figures together.

You could even take out the long stay visa holders and large exchange amounts(condo purchase etc) and be left with some pretty accurate numbers.