Improving entry for Thailand may help Thai tourist industry.

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Not everyone uses ATM and do you really think they collate from the records of all the exchange outlets? It's guesswork more like just based on the numbers, which is why the hardly spend at all Chinese rate so highly.

ATM, cash, wire transfer, its all accounted for. Thats why there are licensed currency exchange booths etc, they report daily turnover. Eventually even the currency booths will exchange foreign currency with a bank etc as they dont get much demand to sell it locally.

The actual exchange rates are calculated on the amount of actual foreign exchange, you cant set the rate unless you are aware of the amounts being traded.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Peterw42

[darrendsd]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

Continued complaining by Bar owners, massage girls, taxi drivers and hotels that may be 10% occupied.  All you have to do is open thyne eyes and yee shall see...give it a go.

Been hearing the same story's for the last 20 years, what they forget or forget to tell you is that towns and city's have expanded massively due to Tourism, I live in Hua Hin and believe me the change and rise of this city since I came to live here has been unbelievable 

 

It isn't quiet, tourism isn't down it's just that a lot of these bar owners, massage girls and hotel staff you talk to have a lot more competition 

 

If you're basing your argument that tourism is down on what bar owners and massage girls tell you then I think you need to question yourself

[madusa]

20 hours ago, mstevens said:

I am currently in Bangkok on a short stay and there are a lot of visitors around and many restaurants and shops busy.  Cannot comment on anywhere else but central Bangkok feels busy to me with visitors everywhere.

I had mentioned years back that the Thais are capable of creating illusions. Look around everything is artificial even the women(the transgenders). If you look carefully, it's illusion nothing more. It is also made affordable for you to spend your time there. Look at the alcoholic drinks. Are they good?

Please I am not condemning Thailand but for the entertainment industries in cities they have failed badly I am afraid.

Of course the countryside and village are still good for your money. Those are natural, no illusions created there yet, perhaps soon.

[KittenKong]

22 hours ago, David Walden said:

Making retirement visas easier to get for retirees would improve things. 

 

The Thai retirement extension is already one of the easiest, cheapest and simplest to obtain anywhere in the world. Mine costs me 1900B and takes me under an hour a year to obtain. No special paperwork or tests of any type required, and no other requirements apart from demonstrating that you have 800,000B to live on for the year, in the form of cash or income, and no requirement to actually spend it at all: the same 800kB can be reused every year if you wish.

 

A doddle.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, David Walden said:

Are you suggesting that if tourists on holidays did not frequent bars and restaurants in Thailand we would all go to heaven.  Sounds like you get your advice from the Pope.

You need to read better, I don't believe in fairy tails btw.

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, 007cableguy said:

Its still pretty easy at Hull to do the 60 day visa !, In fact they did mine on the day of the kings funeral just had to call the office when i got there and he let me in ! (Should of been closed but he dated the visa the 25th )was talking to the guy and he said that they used to turn over 80 multi o's a day before they changed the rules ,That adds up to a fair wedge they are losing every day !!

Seems like you are talking about the 30 day tourist extension at Thai Immigration in Thailand which is much easier to do the second time around or as you say pay someone to help you.  It is the 60 day 1st bit which you have to do in your own country that is the most complicated.  Some people suggest that Thailand only wants 30 day tourists, yes they do spend more per day then 90 day tourists they say.  They are on a fools errand if they think that is the solution for the promotion of the tourist industry in Thailand.

Edited November 18, 2017 by David Walden

[BritTim]

16 minutes ago, David Walden said:

2 hours ago, 007cableguy said:

Its still pretty easy at Hull to do the 60 day visa !, In fact they did mine on the day of the kings funeral just had to call the office when i got there and he let me in ! (Should of been closed but he dated the visa the 25th )was talking to the guy and he said that they used to turn over 80 multi o's a day before they changed the rules ,That adds up to a fair wedge they are losing every day !!

Seems like you are talking about the 30 day tourist extension at Thai Immigration in Thailand which is much easier to do the second time around or as you say pay someone to help you.  It is the 60 day 1st bit which you have to do in your own country that is the most complicated.  Some people suggest that Thailand only wants 30 day tourists, yes they do spend more per day then 90 day tourists they say.  They are on a fools errand if they think that is the solution for the promotion of the tourist industry in Thailand.

Hull is an honorary consulate in the UK. Nothing in @007cableguy's post you replied to is referring to extensions, or any other activity at immigration offices in Thailand.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, 007cableguy said:

... at Hull  ... was talking to the guy and he said that they used to turn over 80 multi o's a day before they changed the rules ,That adds up to a fair wedge they are losing every day !!

Multiply that by all the honorary Thai consulates world-wide, add in the thousands more who used to do 30-day visa-runs - who now spend their foreign-sourced capital in Cambodia, Vietnam, PI, South America, etc.  Thailand has thrown away Billions of Baht in literal "free money," from the West.

 

All of this, in a quest to "tighten up" visas to foreigners from countries who are not likely to work illegally, while leaving the door wide-open for legal and illegal workers from neighboring countries full of "likely to work illegally and/or drive Thai wages into poverty" workers.

 

The solution to the "visa run problem," and the rest, was to allow extensions to be done at an immigration office in perpetuity for everyone. Imagine 90-day extensions for 5K Baht fee, plus proof of 120K Baht in the bank, plus 40K Baht/mo of incoming foreign-transfers (easy to prove with a bank-book).  It's better financial insurance than 20K Baht at a consulate or border, and all foreigners doing this would be regularly tracked by immigration.  Win-Win.  But noooo, can't do that because ???

[SirBuwanaDogbossKing]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, all foreign exchange is accounted for, and all brits departing and arriving are accounted for. So at 11:59 last night they knew, to the baht, how many pounds were exchanged and to the person how many brits are in Thailand. Its not hard to marry the 2 figures together.

You could even take out the long stay visa holders and large exchange amounts(condo purchase etc) and be left with some pretty accurate numbers.

 

poppycock

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The solution to the "visa run problem," and the rest, was to allow extensions to be done at an immigration office in perpetuity for everyone. Imagine 90-day extensions for 5K Baht fee, ....

 

I currently get a year's extension for under 2000B. Are you suggesting that I should pay more for less?

 

[JackThompson]

46 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I currently get a year's extension for under 2000B. Are you suggesting that I should pay more for less?

I see no reason to eliminate existing options - just open up a new one for all those who have been forced out of the country, so all that incoming-money can return with them - and also invite the expanding number of people who earn their living from online-businesses.

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

Hull is an honorary consulate in the UK. Nothing in @007cableguy's post you replied to is referring to extensions, or any other activity at immigration offices in Thailand.

When you get apply for a 90 day tourist visa in Australia USA and I believe anywhere at a Thai Consulate and comply with all the requirements you get a visa which allows you to enter Thailand for 60 days (not 90 days).  At the conclusion of 60 days you can then apply (complicated) to Thai Immigration in the province where you live to have that Visa extended for a further 30 days (lots more red tape).  The 90 day tourist visa in Thailand is a Claytons visa like the "90 day visa you get when your not having a 90 day visa".  They can call it what they like but it is really permission to apply for a further 30 day stay in Thailand with all its complications and apply at Immigration inside Thailand.  The whole issue is so very complicated for a novice that most people can't believe anyone could think up such a procedure.  When you apply for the the 90 days tourist visa it say so on the form "Application for 90 tourist visa".  Just confusing , confusing, confusing...It seems I might be breaking the law by telling people the facts.  Someone needs to get real.

   PS... and pay another Bt 1900 for this extra 30 days.

Edited November 18, 2017 by David Walden

[geisha]

People who spend 3/4/5 winter months ( for example) are tourists too! 

Not retiring to Thailand, tourists, who spend money every day, fill up the condos they have bought or rent, use the hospitals, hotels and restaurants, supermarkets , cinemas and markets. Everyone here knows these nice condos ( 20/30'/ thousand baht plus a month ) with their pools and gyms, filled to the top with either retired ( or not) Europeans who want to spend the cold winter months of Europe in Thailand. I don't think these people are a threat to thailands work force, and do not belong in the criminal category. Yet  there is no visa for them. I don't think it's up to others on TV to decide who can stay in Thailand and how long ! If you do that, then I would say that the average person retired , or living in Thailand permanently spends far !!! less than the ones staying 3 to 5 months! 

 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

When you get apply for a 90 day tourist visa in Australia USA and I believe anywhere at a Thai Consulate and comply with all the requirements you get a visa which allows you to enter Thailand for 60 days (not 90 days).  At the conclusion of 60 days you can then apply (complicated) to Thai Immigration in the province where you live to have that Visa extended for a further 30 days (lots more red tape).  The 90 day tourist visa in Thailand is a Claytons visa like the "90 day visa you get when your not having a 90 day visa".  They can call it what they like but it is really permission to apply for a further 30 day stay in Thailand with all its complications and apply at Immigration inside Thailand.  The whole issue is so very complicated for a novice that most people can't believe anyone could think up such a procedure.  When you apply for the the 90 days tourist visa it say so on the form "Application for 90 tourist visa".  Just confusing , confusing, confusing...It seems I might be breaking the law by telling people the facts.  Someone needs to get real.

   PS... and pay another Bt 1900 for this extra 30 days.

There is no such thing as a "90-day tourist visa". At a consulate outside Thailand, you can apply for a single entry tourist visa which has an expiry date three months after it is issued. On entry into Thailand, you are given a 60-day permission to stay. You then have the option of applying for a 30-day extension at an immigration office inside Thailand on payment of 1,900 baht. This is almost always given (and is not especially complicated) but officially granting the extension is at the discretion of the immigration official.

[David Walden]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is no such thing as a "90-day tourist visa". At a consulate outside Thailand, you can apply for a single entry tourist visa which has an expiry date three months after it is issued. On entry into Thailand, you are given a 60-day permission to stay. You then have the option of applying for a 30-day extension at an immigration office inside Thailand on payment of 1,900 baht. This is almost always given (and is not especially complicated) but officially granting the extension is at the discretion of the immigration official.

All rubbish.

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, 007cableguy said:

Its still pretty easy at Hull to do the 60 day visa !, In fact they did mine on the day of the kings funeral just had to call the office when i got there and he let me in ! (Should of been closed but he dated the visa the 25th )was talking to the guy and he said that they used to turn over 80 multi o's a day before they changed the rules ,That adds up to a fair wedge they are losing every day !!

Haha, I had a few of them over the years.

 

[David Walden]

37 minutes ago, David Walden said:

All rubbish.

If you look on the Thai Australian web site and ask how to get a 90 day visa for a holiday in Thailand you will get a plethora of confusing information which if in Australia you tried to describe as a product you are offering for sale.  Without diplomatic protection you would be prosecuted.

Edited November 18, 2017 by David Walden

[Herbie 100]

I totally agree with OP not only for Tourism but for Business as well.

 

I am from the UK and travel all over the world on business  in particular Russia and China..For these counties even as a Brit I get a 1 year multi entry visa very easily pay a few hundred £ fill in 1 form on line...give passport to embassy and 2 or 3 days later I get a 1 year multi visa.... (Max stay 30 days per entry come in and out as many times as you like no 3rd degree at immigration)To do the same in Thailand is ridiculously complicated with papers and forms needed for everything. Why can they not just do the same as other countries?  ie offer a simple to apply 1 year multi entry visa for a few hundred £ not thousands  that the Elite Visa offers..crazy... additionally I know many farangs who work abroad for a month or a few weeks and come to Thailand for a month to spend their hard earned in the country but after doing 3 or 4 visa exempt runs start to get nervous about getting past immigration. The country could do with this money being spent in Thailand but more and more are choosing to go to other countries Malaysia, Cambodia etc just because it is easier.

 

I love Thailand and its people but they need to compete with other countries so making entry harder is not helping.  

[David Walden]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

There is no such thing as a "90-day tourist visa". At a consulate outside Thailand, you can apply for a single entry tourist visa which has an expiry date three months after it is issued. On entry into Thailand, you are given a 60-day permission to stay. You then have the option of applying for a 30-day extension at an immigration office inside Thailand on payment of 1,900 baht. This is almost always given (and is not especially complicated) but officially granting the extension is at the discretion of the immigration official.

I stand corrected...When you apply for a visa in your home country to have a 3 months holiday in Thailand, bla, bla, bla...any Thai Consul in Australian or the World will refer to it as a "90 day Thai Tourist Visa".  Your pedantic approach to getting the technical matters correct on visa applications in Thailand is a great contribution in establishing the "Dogs Dinner" mentality that exists when applying for visas.  You are preaching to the converted now about Thailand.  Making things simpler for tourists especially novices I hoped could produce a better tourist industry in Thailand "Where there is a will there is a way"

"Improving entry for Thailand may help Thai tourist industry."  Read the title to this post and learn and look for positive approaches.  There are lots available.

[BritTim]

13 hours ago, David Walden said:

If you look on the Thai Australian web site and ask how to get a 90 day visa for a holiday in Thailand you will get a plethora of confusing information

I agree, and that is why sites like this one are valuable. They can provide accurate and up to date guidance on the best approach. Without any change in the law, the "social" visas (90-day Non O to visit family and friends) which used to be widely available as a way to make a 90-day visit to Thailand became much more restricted around 20 years ago. Taking advantage of automatic visa exempt entries using border bounces was a good solution until about three years ago. Today, the recommended solutions are different and (although this may not seem logical) the consulates are not the best source, as they can only tell you about the visas they provide, not the big picture.

Edited November 18, 2017 by BritTim

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Well meaning advice/constructive criticism from westerners is never well taken. Certain elements of xenophobia come from an inferiority complex. There is no force in Thai government that seeks to reduce bureacracy,  thrive on paperwork, signed copies, and costly residence certificates. No moaning on a visa forum will change it. Want to stay here easily please get an Elite Card. Cost of entry your financial proof and easy application. Still have to do 90 day reports. And now TM 30,  in Chiang Mai heavily enforced and last time it took me two hours. A couple years ago there was an announcement of some kind of immigration crackdown in Chiang Mai. A few days later they had an event to encourage "longstay" retired Japanese, with talk of some liberalization of procedures that never happens.  My building used to have tons of Japanese retirees. Some died but ALL gone except one couple. Not replaced by newcomers. Thailand does not want retirees leaving on modest means anymore.

 

As for tourist numbers I only can speak for Chiang Mai, there are more than ever and there is no low season but if it was not for China there would hardly be any tourists at all. The high spending western couples go elsewhere thanks to scams and greed. Backpackers, way down, harder to party here.  The digital nomads and youtube bloggers stay in cheap apartments and pride themselves on meagre spending.  I think they will be next driven out. 

 

[wotsdermatter]

In Canada, for me to get a NON-O ME visa means filling out 1 form in triplicate, filling in an ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FORM, which is practically identical to the first document, obtaining a medical certificate from my doctor, obtaining a bank statement from my bank, and a police clearance.  Most of these documents must then be notarised, and along with a copy of my return flight ticket, and a copy of my passport information section sent to Ottawa in a registered envelope, with a prepaid return envelope, along with my passport.  The process of sending the information and having the passport returned after it is processed and has a new visa attached takes 5-7 days.  Sorry, I forgot to mention I must also send a money order of CAD200 to cover the visa fees.  Plus, I have to pay for the police record and travel downtown Toronto to apply then pick up 10-15 days later and that costs CAD20. Being handicapped as I am, the process makes it very difficult and time-consuming.   However, what am I except nothing but another source of income for the Thai Immigration to use to make money from.  This is a lot of c**p and expense for what?  I can go to other countries with much less trouble and so I have decided this will be my last trip to Thailand because I also do not like to pay 180-200 baht for ATM transfer of funds.

Edited November 19, 2017 by wotsdermatter

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

1 hour ago, wotsdermatter said:

In Canada, for me to get a NON-O ME visa means filling out 1 form in triplicate, filling in an ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FORM, which is practically identical to the first document, obtaining a medical certificate from my doctor, obtaining a bank statement from my bank, and a police clearance.  Most of these documents must then be notarised, and along with a copy of my return flight ticket, and a copy of my passport information section sent to Ottawa in a registered envelope, with a prepaid return envelope, along with my passport.  The process of sending the information and having the passport returned after it is processed and has a new visa attached takes 5-7 days.  Sorry, I forgot to mention I must also send a money order of CAD200 to cover the visa fees.  Plus, I have to pay for the police record and travel downtown Toronto to apply then pick up 10-15 days later and that costs CAD20. Being handicapped as I am, the process makes it very difficult and time-consuming.   However, what am I except nothing but another source of income for the Thai Immigration to use to make money from.  This is a lot of c**p and expense for what?  I can go to other countries with much less trouble and so I have decided this will be my last trip to Thailand because I also do not like to pay 180-200 baht for ATM transfer of funds.

"However, what am I except nothing but another source of income for the Thai Immigration to use to make money from. " 

 

You are right Visas just come down to money, then it becomes self-serving. Until last year TM30 was never enforced in Chiang Mai, then suddenly  anybody already living there with business to complete at CM Immigration was fined with a rule never before used. Now there is a department with a few IOs working on them all day long . Get rid of TM30  with something logical there goes their job.  

 

 

[lamyai3]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

Without any change in the law, the "social" visas (90-day Non O to visit family and friends) which used to be widely available as a way to make a 90-day visit to Thailand became much more restricted around 20 years ago.

These non O visas were widely available from UK consulates (and others worldwide) right up until about five years ago. They offered a multiple entry visa valid for one year (therefore good for up to fifteen months) and available by post without any supporting documentation. Times have really changed regarding user friendly visa options. 

[samran]

On 18/11/2017 at 10:00 AM, darrendsd said:

Been hearing the same story's for the last 20 years, what they forget or forget to tell you is that towns and city's have expanded massively due to Tourism, I live in Hua Hin and believe me the change and rise of this city since I came to live here has been unbelievable 

 

It isn't quiet, tourism isn't down it's just that a lot of these bar owners, massage girls and hotel staff you talk to have a lot more competition 

 

If you're basing your argument that tourism is down on what bar owners and massage girls tell you then I think you need to question yourself

Indeed.

 

Which numbers to believe? 

 

Clearly not the official stats cause they are produced by little brown men and women who couldn’t possibly be doing it correctly. 

 

Better it seems the 5 minute expert TV pundit analysis produced by graduates the ‘school of hard knocks’ who no doubt refined their statistical analysis skills at the ‘University of Life’ 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:50 AM, David Walden said:

Continued complaining by Bar owners, massage girls, taxi drivers and hotels that may be 10% occupied.  All you have to do is open thyne eyes and yee shall see...give it a go.

The people in charge at the TAT decided a few years ago that they didn't want tourists staying 6 months at a time anymore, as was common ca. 15 years ago (semi-retired Westerners, who spent half a year in Thailand and half a year at home). Instead they now prefer tourists from Russia, India, and China (the latter ones who buy an 'all-inclusive-package' in China, while staying only a few days, just long enough to eat shark-fin soup and visit a tropical island in Thailand). Tourist numbers are through the roof, while income for hotels, taxis, and entertainment venues is not. Good for tourism statistics (as for 'record numbers') and travel agencies in China...

 

I could swear, that 15 years ago places like Sukhumvit, Pattaya, and Phuket were brimming with Western faces, while these days one can see way more tourists from China, South Asia, and the Middle East. Then again, tourists seem to venture to places that weren't on a tourist's map in 2000, e.g. there seem to be more and more backpackers in places like Thonglor, etc.

Edited November 19, 2017 by StayinThailand2much

[StayinThailand2much]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:52 PM, Herbie 100 said:

I totally agree with OP not only for Tourism but for Business as well.

I am from the UK and travel all over the world on business  in particular Russia and China..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for China you could get a 10-year visa, if only for travel purposes. My impression is that, while most countries in the region make it easier for tourists to stay longer and, thereby spend more money, Thailand decided to go counter-clockwise.

[jimster]

I disagree completely that the numbers of western tourists are down - in fact there are definitely more than at anytime in the past, just that the numbers of tourists from other regions have eclipsed or caught up to them (for example Russians, Chinese, Malaysians, Indians etc.)

 

Went on a boat to an island off the east coast of Thailand recently - counted dozens and dozens of westerners on the late morning sailing I was on. Probably 40% of the boat's passengers were westerners, there were also a couple of Japanese but only one Chinese family (as far as I could tell). On the return mid-afternoon, saw the same Chinese family on board with about a dozen westerners - seems that most of the western day trippers I saw probably took one of the later sailings back, so only around 5-10% of those on board the mid-afternoon sailing were westerners.

 

At least half of all the people on the beach and in the water were westerners, including a few Russians.

 

Apparently the number of Chinese tourists to Thailand are down a little (or were last year) so it's not as if Chinese tourist numbers are going to climb in perpetuity. Same with overall and Chinese tourist numbers to Laos - down significantly last year from the previous year.

 

I just think that people make assumptions, which clouds their judgement. Turns out western (and Russian) tourists are most likely to be found in clusters at Thai beach resorts and not necessarily shopping at Central World or Siam Square, where one is more likely to encounter Chinese tourists. It's foolish to think there were more western tourists sitting on the beach in Phuket in 1987 than in 2017. That's nonsense - the only difference is that in 1987, most non-western tourists were Japanese, now they're Chinese, Arab, Russian (although most look western), Indian, Malaysian and Singaporean. There are also far more flights from Europe to Thailand, including charters in 2017 than at anytime in the past.

Tourists from different countries like different things (which explains all the Scandinavian charters to Phuket and Krabi) - cultural habits are different depending on your ethnicity and country of origin. Nothing surprising about that.

[jimster]

13 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

The people in charge at the TAT decided a few years ago that they didn't want tourists staying 6 months at a time anymore, as was common ca. 15 years ago (semi-retired Westerners, who spent half a year in Thailand and half a year at home). Instead they now prefer tourists from Russia, India, and China (the latter ones who buy an 'all-inclusive-package' in China, while staying only a few days, just long enough to eat shark-fin soup and visit a tropical island in Thailand). Tourist numbers are through the roof, while income for hotels, taxis, and entertainment venues is not. Good for tourism statistics (as for 'record numbers') and travel agencies in China...

 

I could swear, that 15 years ago places like Sukhumvit, Pattaya, and Phuket were brimming with Western faces, while these days one can see way more tourists from China, South Asia, and the Middle East. Then again, tourists seem to venture to places that weren't on a tourist's map in 2000, e.g. there seem to be more and more backpackers in places like Thonglor, etc.

The only difference is that tourists from these countries have money now that they didn't have 15 years ago. Westerners are still coming and are MORE numerous now than 15 years ago, that's for sure. 15 years ago a westerner might have been greeted with a "hello" if walking near Bang Na, as back then it was rare to see westerners that far away from the city, but now you see them everywhere - most expats in the higher sois getting closer to the end of the skytrain line are westerners, near Thong Lor and Ekkamai it's westerners and Japanese, closer to the city you see a combination of westerners (probably 50/50 tourists/expats), Russians, Chinese, Arabs and Indians. The Russian economy was just being lifted out of the doldrums 15 years ago, while Chinese were just starting to discover international travel, ditto for Arabs and Indians.

 

In short, 15 years ago only westerners had money, now pretty much everyone does - in fact many Chinese, Indians, Russians and other nationalities seem to have a lot more money than westerners - certainly judging by their travel habits in Thailand this seems to hold true.