Engagement and sin sod

[mikiea]

On 11/20/2017 at 3:21 AM, swissie said:

If the lady was not married before and has no kids, theoretically "sin sod" would have to come into play. (not so, if the Lady was married before with kids).

"Sin sod" is only due upon marriage. Not before.

- As you descibe it, the required "sin sod" appears to be symbolic (the funds to be returned to you after the ceremony=marriage). It would be a traditional ritual, very much practised in modern day Thailand (upholding tradition).

How to go about it? Tell the Lady that you know about Thai-Customs and are absolutely willing to go along with it and don't forget to mention that the "sin-sod" returned to you, will eventually (after marriage) find it's way back to her/you/family one way or the other.

"Mum" probably just wants to see if you have 100K beforehand. Show her your suit case full of bank notes or show her your latests bank-statement.
Cheers.

ehhh.... that is like letting the used car dealer hold on to your wallet while you decide if and when you may or may not buy the car ..... boyo  ,  pick up them feets and put the down as fast as you can  , you in a heap-o-trouble .

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Have to say, before I read about it in ThaiVisa, in thirty years here I'd never heard of sin sod.

I must have led a charmed life.

Seems there may be a difference between being here and living here.

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

When a farang gay and a thai gay marry why then the farang gay needs to pay the Sin Sod?

Same archaic logic; to take care of the poor little thing, if the farang is the pitcher/dominant partner. However, if the farang is the catcher/weaker partner,  I think he should ask for sin sot

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

Sin Sod is BS.  Just another way to soak a farang!  

Sin Sod is definitely for Thai with Thai too. Good luck with the learning curve here. I find the culture here fascinating. Learn some language and jump right in. The waters are warm.

[F4UCorsair]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

She will run (and rightfully so) because if someone did as you suggest they are being an ass. Concur that many requests for sin sod are a scam and just for the money. Especially if she has been previously married one or more times, has one or several children from previous marriages, or likes to get drunk or gamble.

If you don't want to do it, don't do it, but don't insult the girl you are thinking is a candidate for marriage by asking her to pay you sin sod.

 

That's the way it works in India, and I may be an Indian, so I would be insulted if asked.

Edited November 23, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[Skeptic7]

You are being PLAYED. Traditions are for those traditionally and culturally involved. As a foreigner, you are not. Of course, it may be important to you or you may feel obligated and/or pressured to abide such ridiculous nonsense. I do not. When a foreigner is involved, this is a blatant "money grab". Also, once you fall for it, the word SUCKER never stops flashing on your forehead and they will take advantage of every opportunity to fleece you and bleed you dry. 

 

What slays me is how everyone is so offended by prostitution, then the first thing the family wants is money for the daughter's "hand"...when it's really not the hand they are selling! And how most guys lamely claim they never pay for sex. Pure BS. We ALL pay for it, but you will just be adding 100k to the never ending tab if you agree to any silly "sin sod". 

 

I would walk away fast. In other words...RUN! 

[koolkarl]

4 hours ago, smotherb said:

Learn a little more of Thai society my good man. Sin sot is also for Thais, not just to soak a farang.

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by koolkarl
delete

[koolkarl]

6 hours ago, Pilotman said:

then what you know about Thai culture would fit on a postage stramp. The man shouldn't lose the girl just becuse of ignorant western attitudes that don't pertain here.

At least I don't have to pay someone to marry me!

 

[1FinickyOne]

17 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

At least I don't have to pay someone to marry me!

 

You don't pay them. You pay their parents. 

[Pilotman]

15 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

At least I don't have to pay someone to marry me!

 

So it doesnt cost you to woo a western wonam and marrry?

 

You are not buying the girl, you are aknowledging to her parents that they were the ones who sacrificed much to raise her, took care of her, gave her the values you want to see in a long long partner.  That is what sin sot is.  of course, with your western head on, that would pass you by no doubt   

[smotherb]

14 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

From your photo, no wonder you have to pay someone to marry you.

I suppose you look like the puffy-cheeked Marlon Brando in your photo, eh? I must also conclude you just look at pictures because you cannot read or comprehend what is written. How do you draw the conclusion that I must pay someone to marry me?

[smotherb]

2 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

You don't pay them. You pay their parents. 

Yeah, you pay mama- and papa-san--same-same bar fine.

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, smotherb said:

Yeah, you pay mama- and papa-san--same-same bar fine.

When you pay a barfine, do you pay her parents? 

[Pilotman]

Just now, smotherb said:

Yeah, you pay mama- and papa-san--same-same bar fine.

I trust that's a poor joke and not an all too common, stupid ignorant farang comment?

[smotherb]

3 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

So it doesnt cost you to woo a western wonam and marrry?

 

You are not buying the girl, you are aknowledging to her parents that they were the ones who sacrificed much to raise her, took care of her, gave her the values you want to see in a long long partner.  That is what sin sot is.  of course, with your western head on, that would pass you by no doubt   

Why is it many Thai men are trying to avoid paying sin sot and many who do expect it to be paid right back?

[Pilotman]

Just now, smotherb said:

Why is it many Thai men are trying to avoid paying sin sot and many who do expect it to be paid right back?

Simple finance.  If you are Thai, love a girl,  but are poor, its a hard thing to do.  Thai families find ways around it, usually by helping the young couple to find a house and furnish it, using sin sot pay back, or delaying payment for sometimes years. 

[smotherb]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

When you pay a barfine, do you pay her parents? 

Certainly, if you think sin sot is a bar fine.

[smotherb]

4 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I trust that's a poor joke and not an all too common, stupid ignorant farang comment?

No, not a joke, I see sin sot as a bar fine. If you do not, good on you. However, I think you fool yourself to deny a similarity between the two exists. And, I do hope you are not calling me stupid and ignorant just because I don't agree with you. Tsk, tsk.

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, smotherb said:

No, not a joke, I see sin sot as a bar fine. If you do not, good on you. However, I think you fool yourself to deny a similarity between the two exists. And, I do hope you are not calling me stupid and ignorant just because I don't agree with you. Tsk, tsk.

Can't be bothered with this anymore. I don't think you are stupid, I don't know you, ( thank goodness) but you are clearly ignorant of aspects Thai culture.  To your detrement mate.  Disrespect is an unworthy way to treat a people. 

[smotherb]

4 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Simple finance.  If you are Thai, love a girl,  but are poor, its a hard thing to do.  Thai families find ways around it, usually by helping the young couple to find a house and furnish it, using sin sot pay back, or delaying payment for sometimes years. 

Exactly, or simply doing away with the sin sot altogether. As I said, changing customs and cultural norms, sin sot is no longer required. If you pay it, it is up to you. Similarly, if you take financial responsibility for her family, it is up to you. However, to me, you are simply entering a financial relationship.

[Eddie664]

46 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

You are being PLAYED. Traditions are for those traditionally and culturally involved. As a foreigner, you are not. Of course, it may be important to you or you may feel obligated and/or pressured to abide such ridiculous nonsense. I do not. When a foreigner is involved, this is a blatant "money grab". Also, once you fall for it, the word SUCKER never stops flashing on your forehead and they will take advantage of every opportunity to fleece you and bleed you dry. 

 

What slays me is how everyone is so offended by prostitution, then the first thing the family wants is money for the daughter's "hand"...when it's really not the hand they are selling! And how most guys lamely claim they never pay for sex. Pure BS. We ALL pay for it, but you will just be adding 100k to the never ending tab if you agree to any silly "sin sod". 

 

I would walk away fast. In other words...RUN! 

*stuck in the mud*....... Marriage is the most expencive sex a man can have no matter where you are in the world.

[smotherb]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

Can't be bothered with this anymore. I don't think you are stupid, I don't know you, ( thank goodness) but you are clearly ignorant of aspects Thai culture.  To your detrement mate.  Disrespect is an unworthy way to treat a people. 

Sorry, I do not see honesty as disrespect. I am simply stating my opinion. Are you denying me that right?

[notmyself]

The whole concept of paying a dowry (sin sod) is disgusting at a fundamental level and if it's just for show then it makes it even worse. If I were to pay a dowry (I wouldn't) then I would not want it back because it is tainted.... think bloody money.

[jenny2017]

Although there is no recent data on such marriages, a 2004 government study showed more than 15,000 women from one of the poorest regions, northeastern Isan, had married foreign men, and sent a monthly total of 122 million baht (AUD $4.6 million) to their families.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/08/30/thailand-offers-course-for-women-who-marry-foreigners_a_23190508/

 

Time for a course for foreigners on Thai culture. 

[brewsterbudgen]

The whole concept of paying a dowry (sin sod) is disgusting at a fundamental level and if it's just for show then it makes it even worse. If I were to pay a dowry (I wouldn't) then I would not want it back because it is tainted.... think bloody money.

No one is forcing you to pay it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Rc2702]

On 20/11/2017 at 8:42 AM, wildewillie89 said:

More and more families today are happy to bypass sin sord all together (or at the very least, return it). This sometimes results from the newer generation daughter reading about sin sord as a cause of conflict or a deal breaker for other Thai/Western couples, and explaining this to her family. Thai women have their various forums to talk about farang, just like we do on ThaiVisa. 

It is easy to get around sin sord in terms of the actual wedding and pleasing those who care about it. Just have the morning ceremony in a church (whether religious or not) and spread a rumour about a sin sord amount that was 'supposedly' paid. We did it, and other Thai friends have done the same to avoid sin sord as they too see it as ridiculous in modern society.

It is also a good start to learning how to make compromises on the two cultures/thinking. For example, our first child had a baby ceremony. I saw how ridiculous it was having dirty money put all over her and 100s of people breathing all over her at a young age and now the family have agreed with me and said our second child will not have one. If you just give, give, give and never stand up for your own beliefs then you will end up another bitter member on ThaiVisa lol. 

Has nothing to do with being cheap. Plus, gives a pretty clear message that the farang will never be an ATM machine for the family members who may not be so naturally loving. She seems like a good sort with a good job/education so have a very open/calm discussion about it.  Of course, others are 'completely happy' to be ATM machines and that is completely okay also.

There is a thaivisa style forum for thai women? I'd love to know the name I can tell my Mrs about it. Please advise.

[smotherb]

26 minutes ago, Eddie664 said:

*stuck in the mud*....... Marriage is the most expencive sex a man can have no matter where you are in the world.

Like everything else, it depends on how well you plan it. If sex is all you want; then, that is a terrible reason to settle down with one woman. However, if you want a soul mate, one with whom you experience the quality of life and also have sex, then you need to make wise choices. If money is an issue, find a wealthy one. Just like when looks are an issue, you find a pretty one. When you are married it does not mean your wife can only take from your assets, she should also contribute to them. If she does not, then you have planned it poorly.

[473geo]

An example:

 

I know of a guy in the UK became engaged - the ring cost equivalent THB 320k

When they marry I anticipate his wedding day and honeymoon expenses to reach a minimum equivalent THB 200k

His fiancee is more than 10 years older than the OPs intended

 

100k baht - bargain

 

 

[ToddinChonburi]

I always wonder how many little village boys can pay this.  Along comes faring , Thai custom is stop !!  You are getting married to a non Thai I think your sin did just flew out the window.   Why do Farangs fall for this money grab.  Really what will be her contribution to the home and life style ?   Like someone else pointed out,  tell her western culture the bride's family pays for the wedding.

[473geo]

2 minutes ago, ToddinChonburi said:

I always wonder how many little village boys can pay this.  Along comes faring , Thai custom is stop !!  You are getting married to a non Thai I think your sin did just flew out the window.   Why do Farangs fall for this money grab.  Really what will be her contribution to the home and life style ?   Like someone else pointed out,  tell her western culture the bride's family pays for the wedding.

"little village boys" parents pay

An expected cost