Will these work on ungrounded ac outlets

[jack2964]

Found these at Bunnings hardware in Sydney and am tempted to purchase one of them.

My question is will any of these work in my thai home where the ac outets only have 2 wires even though

the socket has 3-pins.  Asked the Bunnings staff at the electrical section but he isn't sure if it will work.

I intend to use it when I am using some power tools around the house.

Your input greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

If by "work" you are referring to the RCBO, then yes, it should work as described.  You will need plug adapters, yah?

 

BUT - if your home wiring is adequately protected at the CU, then this would be superfluous.  

[carlyai]

If by "work" you are referring to the RCBO, then yes, it should work as described.  You will need plug adapters, yah?
 
BUT - if your home wiring is adequately protected at the CU, then this would be superfluous.  

bankruatsteve Just say 'yes' and tell him to get some pliers and bend the male plug pins. [emoji3]

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[lopburi3]

Believe it would make much more sense to buy a local Safe-t-cut (or other brand) for/or before main power panel and protect your whole house all the time.  You might even have already if you have not checked.

 

There does not need to be a ground connection for these units to operate - but grounds are highly recommended if at all possible (re-wire of home is normally not that complex or costly).  You are not going to like getting a shock even if your life is saved by the RCBO.

[jack2964]

@steve: yes I am aware I'll need plug adapters or replace plug and sockets on the device to Thai styled ones if I do buy one.

 

@lopburi3: problem is I can't find a competent sparky at my village and I am not up to it myself to tackle rewiring the entire house. 

[lopburi3]

18 minutes ago, jack2964 said:

@steve: yes I am aware I'll need plug adapters or replace plug and sockets on the device to Thai styled ones if I do buy one.

 

@lopburi3: problem is I can't find a competent sparky at my village and I am not up to it myself to tackle rewiring the entire house. 

Even an incompetent should be able to wire a Safe-t-cut into your circuit and that will provide a lot more protection that what you propose as it will be full time on all outlets.  Cost is not that much either.  Only downside is that you have to repair equipment/lines or remove from the Safe-t-cut if unable to do so if they leak too much.  But these units have been in use here for 40 years now so are known by most workers.  And they do save lives.  This is a barefoot country so all to easy to be a fatality. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by lopburi3

[Crossy]

I've seen similar units here (MegaHome) and they have the correct plugs.

 

[bankruatsteve]

26 minutes ago, jack2964 said:

@steve: yes I am aware I'll need plug adapters or replace plug and sockets on the device to Thai styled ones if I do buy one.

 

@lopburi3: problem is I can't find a competent sparky at my village and I am not up to it myself to tackle rewiring the entire house. 

I am guessing then, that you want this device for the RCD protection?  And, if your CU is not so protected that is well and good.  EXCEPT you also say for use with power tools.  I can't think of any power tool that are not Class 2 these days and that would obviate the need for grounding and, for most situations, RCD.  But, if it helps for peace of mind, go for it.

[worgeordie]

When bringing foreign electrical products from your home country, 

especially the UK,the L and N, wires are reversed here,so if you plugged 

your equipment into an extension cable , your L would be in N and N in L

(understand that ?),which means you would not be protected by the fuse

in the plug,any other countries reversed like this?

regards worgeordie

[bankruatsteve]

5 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

When bringing foreign electrical products from your home country, 

especially the UK,the L and N, wires are reversed here,so if you plugged 

your equipment into an extension cable , your L would be in N and N in L

(understand that ?),which means you would not be protected by the fuse

in the plug,any other countries reversed like this?

regards worgeordie

Not.

[jack2964]

Thanks Crossy I will pop into megahome to see if I can get similar there. Probably cheaper than the Oz product and hopefully of decent quality.

 

Lopburi3: It is clear I don't know anything about classification of electrical appliances and what need grounding. I'll see if Google can help.

 

 

 

 

 

[maxpower]

When using power tools around the home it's sensible to use earth leakage protection even if your tools carry the best safety and double insulation standards. Damaged power cords and extension cables are the high risk these days especially when used in conjunction with garden power tools and circular cutters.

[maxpower]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

When bringing foreign electrical products from your home country, 

especially the UK,the L and N, wires are reversed here,so if you plugged 

your equipment into an extension cable , your L would be in N and N in L

(understand that ?),which means you would not be protected by the fuse

in the plug,any other countries reversed like this?

regards worgeordie

I guess you are trying to point out how the neutral and live can switch when using an adapter on a UK style plug. The fuse in the plug would blow but fail to disconnect the live. 
 

[carlyai]

Even an incompetent should be able to wire a Safe-t-cut into your circuit and that will provide a lot more protection that what you propose as it will be full time on all outlets.  Cost is not that much either.  Only downside is that you have to repair equipment/lines or remove from the Safe-t-cut if unable to do so if they leak too much.  But these units have been in use here for 40 years now so are known by most workers.  And they do save lives.  This is a barefoot country so all to easy to be a fatality. 

Yes but they leave out the earth.

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[Crossy]

16 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Yes but they leave out the earth.

Luckily an RCD/RCBO does not require an earth to function 

 

ALL of my portable power tools are double insulated (Class-2) and require no ground to be safe in normal use (I don't recall seeing a Class-1 domestic power tool in living memory). However an RCD in the circuit is valuable protection if you cut the cable whilst trimming the hedge (got that t-shirt) or put the drill down on wet grass (got that one too).

 

In the absence of a commercial unit I made a short lead with plug, socket (Schuko to match the tools) and a 500 Baht RCBO (it came with a box too) screwed to a bit of plywood (don't forget a cable tie as strain relief). Works like a charm (yes, I've snipped the hedge trimmer cable again since).

 

[Wirejerker]

The Aussie breaker may not Set without a functional earth so all said and done you better off with the local one. Crossy set up would be my choice and using and rcbo with a low 5ma sensitivity. Circular saw twice and hedge trmmer once


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[bankruatsteve]

I'm not discounting safety precautions for when shit happens, but I'm also thinking that cutting the cord of a power tool in use will trip the over-current breaker, not the RCD.

 

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

I'm not discounting safety precautions for when shit happens, but I'm also thinking that cutting the cord of a power tool in use will trip the over-current breaker, not the RCD.

 

Actually cutting the cord might not trip anything - it depends on what touches what.  But my life may have been saved by the trip of house RCD when the local supermarket type red reel case with outlet in ceter sliced off the zip cord plastic on the hot lead and my hand came in contact as I removed the coiled wire.  RCD saves lives above and beyond normal breakers as it limits your exposure to amperage.  And no more electrics from stores that one would expect better from (they also sell extensions that burn due bad connections).  Cheap is not worth it. 

 

[jack2964]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

Luckily an RCD/RCBO does not require an earth to function 

 

ALL of my portable power tools are double insulated (Class-2) and require no ground to be safe in normal use (I don't recall seeing a Class-1 domestic power tool in living memory). However an RCD in the circuit is valuable protection if you cut the cable whilst trimming the hedge (got that t-shirt) or put the drill down on wet grass (got that one too).

 

In the absence of a commercial unit I made a short lead with plug, socket (Schuko to match the tools) and a 500 Baht RCBO (it came with a box too) screwed to a bit of plywood (don't forget a cable tie as strain relief). Works like a charm (yes, I've snipped the hedge trimmer cable again since).

 

Would apreciate if you could share a photo and schematic of your design. And source of parts.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, jack2964 said:

Would apreciate if you could share a photo and schematic of your design. And source of parts.

This is my (well used) DIY one, RCBO and box was about 500 Baht from HomePro, cable (3 core with a moulded plug) and traily Shuko outlet were "in stock". But 3-core flex, suitable plug and Schuko traily outlet should be available in HomePro too.

 

Note, if your equipment is double insulated (most power tools are) then you can use 2-pin plug and cable.

 

Wiring is simple, put the plug on the cable, from your plug go to the "Line" terminals on the RCBO, if you have a ground leave it long enough to go around the RCBO. From the "Load" terminals of the RCBO run a cable to your outlet. Join the grounds (if you have them) with a choc-bloc or wire-nut. Plastic cable ties provide strain relief and suitable holes in the box let the cable out.

 

Note the RCBO is 30A / 15mA, I'm not interested in the over-current rating as the circuit is on a 20A MCB anyway, so it's being used as a 15mA RCD.

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

And, just to prove they exist a couple of photos of Thai units 

 

Courtesy of @kamalabob2

 

 

 

[maxpower]

Crossys DIY version is best because it only has a short lead on the unprotected side.

 

Below is the Thai DIY version 2.0 from our workshop.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by maxpower

[lopburi3]

And what I would not buy again.  (although this not red and may be slightly different)

[maxpower]

13 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

And what I would not buy again.  (although this not red and may be slightly different)

From the same factory ....

 

[Crossy]

@maxpower where can I get the pig one? Not to use but because Wifey collects pigs (she collected me, I'm a pig).

[maxpower]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

@maxpower where can I get the pig one? Not to use but because Wifey collects pigs (she collected me, I'm a pig).

Animal power outlets are all over the Shenzhen market so a Google Images or Ebay search for 'pig power outlet' will show results.

Example with free shipping -  Click here

[carlyai]

bankruatsteve Just say 'yes' and tell him to get some pliers and bend the male plug pins. [emoji3]

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Yes, very bad advice from carlyai. Never do that.

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[tryasimight]

Don't forget to use the test button on any of your protective devices to make sure they still work. They can and do fail. I spoke to an electrical inspector in Oz a few years ago. On one investigation a guy was killed (electrocuted) even though he had 3 (three!) rcd in series on the job he was doing. Don't forget RCD's or as they now call them in Oz....safety switches... aren't guaranteed save your life, especially if you happen to grab both the active and neutral simultaneously.

 

The best defense from electrocution is using your brain....everything else is a back up system, like seat belts and air bags in cars.

Edited February 6, 2018 by tryasimight