For the Phuket knockers

[keithpa]

Egg on face time. Beaches are packed, many property developments underway.

[KarenBravo]

Depends on what they're "knocking".

If it's the people that said tourism was dying, you're right.

If it's the people decrying the state of the beaches, flooding caused by over-building, packed roads, rubbish everywhere, then,

they have a point.

[geriatrickid]

Where are these great beaches you speak of?  Patong Beach  will always look packed when  its users are limited to a few patches as the jet ski thugs and parasail bullies have a monopoly on space. Kamala is so inviting with its drop off and jagged rocks.  Where? Surin? Karon? where?  Rawai? Such an inviting beach.....

 

Yes there are some buildings going up. There always are. That doesn't mean they will be a success.  If  Phuket meets your needs, great. We all wish you the best.

[madmitch]

Very sweeping statement, OP!

 

It's Christmas. It's always busy.

 

There are always too many property developments, some of which never get finished. Have a look around the island and you''ll see what I mean.

 

The problem is high season used to run from around the beginning of November until Songkran. It now starts around December 20th and is over by the first week in March. And many of the tourists are lower spending Russians and Chinese.

[steelepulse]

I hear the word knockers and it I don't associate it with what the OP is talking about.

[Psimbo]

I think you will find that what you are smoking is illegal in Thailand!

[Coconut Kidd]

11 hours ago, keithpa said:

many property developments underway

 

"A milkmaid has a pail of milk that she plans to sell. She imagines selling the milk for a good price and using the money to buy some eggs, which will then hatch, then she'll raise the chickens and sell them for a good price and buy herself a nice new hat. Unfortunately, she spills the milk and thus all her plans are for naught. Thus the moral of the story is don't count your chickens before they are hatched."

 

[Badrabbit]

Laguna beach is very nice(the part past the golf course turn right at end then 2nd or 3rd entrance on left.

 

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[phuketrichard]

layan beach is always nice during the week 

but since i live in Kamala its fine for me, and YES its busy already ( at least in the late afternoon when i head down)  with more people NOT using the chairs and umbrellas as using them.

[sebastion]

This thread lowered my IQ just reading the OP.
This is perfect example of how to not make a thread.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[NamKangMan]

 

So, the OP picks the "peak season" to describe how well Phuket is doing.  No mention of the other 11 months of the year. 

 

No doubt more tourists are coming here, but the higher numbers are not resulting in a higher turnover, and higher profits, island wide.  

 

For "A World Class Tourist Destination" - Phuket is only just surviving on package holiday makers from developing economies, and that is a fragile market to be relying upon.     

 

 

[xylophone]

On 20/12/2017 at 9:23 AM, madmitch said:

And many of the tourists are lower spending Russians and Chinese.

True mm and what many forget is that it is the SPEND that matters, not just the numbers. And I agree with your comment re the high season as have noticed exactly what you have said, but I stated to someone the other day that I thought high season now started on Dec 15th..............not far out!!

[InMyShadow]

OP a much more favorable thread would be what happened to the high season in phuket, BKK, CM, Pattaya Etc.. Gatanteed to run a hundred pages... Every........ Single....... Year since TV inception [emoji3]

 

 

 

 

[Sharp]

Feet on the ground definitely seems more 'in quantity' than the same time last year but 'spend' I'm sure we'll find out if the stats are believed..

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[NamKangMan]

On 12/24/2017 at 11:54 AM, Sharp said:

Feet on the ground definitely seems more 'in quantity' than the same time last year but 'spend' I'm sure we'll find out if the stats are believed..

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

I don't think anyone would argue that there is not more tourists coming here now, one just had to look at the coach buses and traffic here these days. 

 

However, there is no point having more tourists here without the corresponding revenue that more tourists should be bringing in, and unfortunately, I don't think the cheap Chinese package holiday makers, despite their large numbers, are spending anywhere near the western market they are replacing.   

[impulse]

23 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

I don't think the cheap Chinese package holiday makers, despite their large numbers, are spending anywhere near the western market they are replacing.   

 

 

Yeah they are.  They are spending even more.  Those stats have been published many times.

 

But they spend it on stuff they're going to haul back to China.  So the vendors who expect to pluck and skin them like they do western tourists are going to be pretty hungry.  Those that adapt will thrive. 

 

But you can also count on their Chinese countrymen to wedge themselves as deep as they can between the Chinese tourists' money and the local vendors' tills.

 

[Old Croc]

 

1 hour ago, impulse said:

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

I don't think the cheap Chinese package holiday makers, despite their large numbers, are spending anywhere near the western market they are replacing.   

Yeah they are.  They are spending even more.  Those stats have been published many times.

But they spend it on stuff they're going to haul back to China.  So the vendors who expect to pluck and skin them like they do western tourists are going to be pretty hungry.  Those that adapt will thrive. 

But you can also count on their Chinese countrymen to wedge themselves as deep as they can between the Chinese tourists' money and the local vendors' tills.

https://www.phuketgazette.net/lifestyle/travel/whos-coming-spending-tourist-numbers-2017

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, Old Croc said:

 

https://www.phuketgazette.net/lifestyle/travel/whos-coming-spending-tourist-numbers-2017

Quote: Estimated spending shows the Chinese on top, of course........

 

But where do these estimates come from?? If the tourists are being surveyed as to what their spending/what their Thai vacation is costing them, then it's quite poss that they are including the costs paid back in China (as per zero baht tourists) and other incidentals, so their spend is not helping the Thai economy, and the stats are skewed.

 

And in addition, as Impulse has said, there are likely to be many "wedges" between what they do spend here and how much finds its way to local vendors.

 

My own feedback from shop owners under Jungceylon (Siam), restaurants nearby, Big C, and of course bar owners, suggests this High Season spend is poor??

 

As an afterthought, would the Chinese spend on apartments/condos here (for example) be included in that spend?

[NamKangMan]

14 hours ago, impulse said:

 

 

Yeah they are.  They are spending even more.  Those stats have been published many times.

 

But they spend it on stuff they're going to haul back to China.  So the vendors who expect to pluck and skin them like they do western tourists are going to be pretty hungry.  Those that adapt will thrive. 

 

But you can also count on their Chinese countrymen to wedge themselves as deep as they can between the Chinese tourists' money and the local vendors' tills.

 

 

You have heard of the term, "Zero Baht Tourists" haven't you?

 

The package holiday is bought in China.  They stay in Chinese owned / managed resorts / hotels.  They eat in Chinese owned / managed restaurants.  They are transported in Chinese company owned buses and boats.  They use Chinese tour guides.  They shop in Chinese owned / managed gem shops, dried fruit and seaweed shops, souvenir shops etc.

 

Yes, just by their numbers they are most likely keeping some fruit farmers and seaweed farmers in employment in Thailand, but those farms are not on Phuket, thus, profits from those farms do not circulate around the Phuket economy.  I have heard case of the souvenirs they buy here, were actually made in China. 

 

Yes, they create employment for Thai's, but that employment mainly involves 300 baht a day minimum wage staff.  So, that's not a lot of capital injection into The Phuket economy from the employment they create.  I also know a few workers from neighboring countries, who are working illegally here, in businesses catering for the Chinese, and they send money home every month, which further exacerbates the situation.   

 

Sure, places like Big C, and multi national fast food companies are doing ok out of the Chinese, but how much of Big C's and the multi national's profits go into the local Phuket economy? 

 

I think you will find the "local vendor's" see very little of the Chinese money, with the Phuket economy showing minimal flow on effect of them being here, despite their huge numbers.  

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Quote: Estimated spending shows the Chinese on top, of course........

 

But where do these estimates come from?? If the tourists are being surveyed as to what their spending/what their Thai vacation is costing them, then it's quite poss that they are including the costs paid back in China (as per zero baht tourists) and other incidentals, so their spend is not helping the Thai economy, and the stats are skewed.

 

And in addition, as Impulse has said, there are likely to be many "wedges" between what they do spend here and how much finds its way to local vendors.

 

My own feedback from shop owners under Jungceylon (Siam), restaurants nearby, Big C, and of course bar owners, suggests this High Season spend is poor??

 

As an afterthought, would the Chinese spend on apartments/condos here (for example) be included in that spend?

 

"If the tourists are being surveyed as to what their spending/what their Thai vacation is costing them, then it's quite poss that they are including the costs paid back in China (as per zero baht tourists) and other incidentals, so their spend is not helping the Thai economy, and the stats are skewed." - I believe this to be the case, but it looks good on paper.  

 

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by NamKangMan

[madmitch]

58 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

You have heard of the term, "Zero Baht Tourists" haven't you?

 

The package holiday is bought in China.  They stay in Chinese owned / managed resorts / hotels.  They eat in Chinese owned / managed restaurants.  They are transported in Chinese company owned buses and boats.  They use Chinese tour guides.  They shop in Chinese owned / managed gem shops, dried fruit and seaweed shops, souvenir shops etc.

 

Yes, just by their numbers they are most likely keeping some fruit farmers and seaweed farmers in employment in Thailand, but those farms are not on Phuket, thus, profits from those farms do not circulate around the Phuket economy.  I have heard case of the souvenirs they buy here, were actually made in China. 

 

Yes, they create employment for Thai's, but that employment mainly involves 300 baht a day minimum wage staff.  So, that's not a lot of capital injection into The Phuket economy from the employment they create.  I also know a few workers from neighboring countries, who are working illegally here, in businesses catering for the Chinese, and they send money home every month, which further exacerbates the situation.   

 

Sure, places like Big C, and multi national fast food companies are doing ok out of the Chinese, but how much of Big C's and the multi national's profits go into the local Phuket economy? 

 

I think you will find the "local vendor's" see very little of the Chinese money, with the Phuket economy showing minimal flow on effect of them being here, despite their huge numbers.  

I believe what you say is fundamentally correct but even the zero baht tourists get time off from the incessant bus tours and do tend to spend locally, and I don't just mean the 7-Eleven.

 

One restaurant near me has a good ranking on a Chinese review website and we direct people there every day. You can tell they are seeking out this place as they pass, staring at their phones and looking around.

 

The overpriced street food stalls here are full of Chinese, attracted not just by the authentic roadside setting outside the 7-Eleven, from where they can buy their drinks and ancillary items, but by large signs and menus in Mandarin.

 

Small stores catering exclusively to Chines travellers selling the type of souvenirs they like to buy: latex products, massage oils etc. have been opening, as have expensive fruit stalls.

 

The big hotels and condo units near here are attracting large groups of Chinese. Even the massage shops are doing a decent Chinese trade.

 

All these entities are Thai owned and business is flourishing for them. They're adapting to the newly dominant demographic. Incidentally Russians also frequent the same establishment in large numbers.

 

It's the businesses catering to Western tourists that will struggle with a shorter season and smaller numbers.

[stevenl]

" They are transported in Chinese company owned buses and boats.  "

 

The biggest players for Chinese boat tours here are Nikorn Marine, Surasak and some companies own by the Kan Eang Group, all very much Thai and Thai owned.

 

Also at the moment relatively the number of Chinese tourists is small, hotel prices are too high for them, with Chinese new Year they'll return again.

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Also at the moment relatively the number of Chinese tourists is small, hotel prices are too high for them

Have seen quite a few of them staying in the small cheap guesthouse/hotels in Nanai road.......probably the same ones that eat in the Banzaan market.

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have seen quite a few of them staying in the small cheap guesthouse/hotels in Nanai road.......probably the same ones that eat in the Banzaan market.

True, but those are the younger Chinese traveling independently. No connection at all to the Chinese package holidays, but much more comparable to the young Western backpackers that came here in the 1980's. They are also the ones renting scooters without any experience.

 

Plus I said 'relatively'. In low season hotel prices are down and there are many, many Chinese package tours, at the moment not many.

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

True, but those are the younger Chinese traveling independently. No connection at all to the Chinese package holidays, but much more comparable to the young Western backpackers that came here in the 1980's. They are also the ones renting scooters without any experience.

 

Plus I said 'relatively'. In low season hotel prices are down and there are many, many Chinese package tours, at the moment not many.

•  

 

Yes, I  agree with that. We see plenty of the younger Chinese traveling independently privately renting full apartments and not so cheap.

 

Also I've noticed a huge downturn in the Chinese tour buses here in Kata this last week or so. On the other hand I see a very big increase in the Russian tour buses.

[impulse]

5 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

You have heard of the term, "Zero Baht Tourists" haven't you?

 

The package holiday is bought in China.  They stay in Chinese owned / managed resorts / hotels.  They eat in Chinese owned / managed restaurants.  They are transported in Chinese company owned buses and boats.  They use Chinese tour guides.  They shop in Chinese owned / managed gem shops, dried fruit and seaweed shops, souvenir shops etc.

 

Several times a year, (6 times in 2017) I'm the only white guy waiting in the check in line to get on a plane to a second tier city in China.  I am gobsmacked at the amount of crap they have bought and the efforts they take to get it into their bags, their carry on and the 3 or 4 shopping bags they try to pass off as their "personal item" allowed in addition to their carry on. 

 

Back in that 2nd tier city, I know several local Chinese folks who pay for their entire trip by re-selling the luxury items they smuggle back in.  One Prada handbag can pay for a trip to Thailand.  They're also real big on bringing back gifts that show their friends and coworkers they've been to Thailand.  Believe it or not, fancy Thai rice in 1-2 kg packages and dried fruit are big, too.

 

As I said, if vendors want to skin them on lodging, food, trinkets and the other goodies that westerners spend their holiday money on, they're probably going to go hungry.  But a hotel that puts in a gift shop or even a gift counter with the stuff they want to haul back with them can clean up.   There's also money in helping them get away from that package tour to do their real shopping. 

 

But that requires understanding the customer, not dissing them.

 

2 other hints:  No matter how hot it is, they're going to be carrying around an insulated jar or bottle of hot green tea.  And it's probably not going to be cheap tea.  They have to buy it somewhere, and are also amenable to trying teas that they've heard of and can't get back home.  And if you want to see what they do buy, spend a few hours around the airport check in lines and look and ask.  You'll be amazed, and maybe learn how to skin them...

 

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by impulse

[NamKangMan]

23 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Several times a year, (6 times in 2017) I'm the only white guy waiting in the check in line to get on a plane to a second tier city in China.  I am gobsmacked at the amount of crap they have bought and the efforts they take to get it into their bags, their carry on and the 3 or 4 shopping bags they try to pass off as their "personal item" allowed in addition to their carry on. 

 

Back in that 2nd tier city, I know several local Chinese folks who pay for their entire trip by re-selling the luxury items they smuggle back in.  One Prada handbag can pay for a trip to Thailand.  They're also real big on bringing back gifts that show their friends and coworkers they've been to Thailand.  Believe it or not, fancy Thai rice in 1-2 kg packages and dried fruit are big, too.

 

As I said, if vendors want to skin them on lodging, food, trinkets and the other goodies that westerners spend their holiday money on, they're probably going to go hungry.  But a hotel that puts in a gift shop or even a gift counter with the stuff they want to haul back with them can clean up.   There's also money in helping them get away from that package tour to do their real shopping. 

 

But that requires understanding the customer, not dissing them.

 

2 other hints:  No matter how hot it is, they're going to be carrying around an insulated jar or bottle of hot green tea.  And it's probably not going to be cheap tea.  They have to buy it somewhere, and are also amenable to trying teas that they've heard of and can't get back home.  And if you want to see what they do buy, spend a few hours around the airport check in lines and look and ask.  You'll be amazed, and maybe learn how to skin them...

 

 

 

"I am gobsmacked at the amount of crap they have bought and the efforts they take to get it into their bags" - so am I, but do you see any "high end" items in that "crap?"  Eg. cameras, mobile phones, tablets, laptops etc. 

 

How much profit / VAT is in dried fruit and seaweed????

 

Next time you are at the airport, check out the VAT Refund counter, very few Chinese in that queue. 

 

Also, check out the duty free shops selling quality items, very few Chinese shopping in there, despite there being no duty on the products. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by NamKangMan

[beechbum]

There's always lots of Chinese at the big gold/diamond stores, also at the new large King power stores, you'd have to go beyond Patong to realise it though.

[madmax2]

The main groups of tourists booking passenger  vans at present for tours, restaurants and visiting tourist attractions are independent travellers from Korea, Thailand, Japan, Australia, China, Russia and the occasional Kiwi, the best tippers are the Aussies and Kiwis

They regularly book a van as a group of couples or independent travellers who have met in their hotel for a full day tour which includes having a meal at a independent restaurant, they spend freely  but not in the bars or on bar ladies and are not penny pinchers who want the cheapest prices for everything like the single male tourists are usually who post on this forum and are not from the listed countries 95% of the time and like to speculate about about whats happening with the tourist business 

Business has picked up a lot since the week before Xmas and should be good to the end of March the same as last year  

[beechbum]

There spending money at a lot of small places in Phuket town, was in there during the evening tonight and groups everywhere, eating in the small shops and shopping.