TM-30

[passon]

It is my understanding that Chiang Mai immigration may be the only office enforcing the TM-30 [so-called] requirement and that Bangkok may not be enforcing it. However, if it is being enforced throughout Thailand the notification requirement is for each housemaster [their description, not mine], hotel or anyone providing shelter to an alien over a 24 hour period to complete the TM-30 form, which is known as Notification From For House-Master, Owner Or The Possessor Of The Residence Where Alien Has Stayed. If the House-Master is unable to accompany the alien to the immigration office with the completed form then the house-master must complete a Power of Attorney Form Notification Form For Where Alien Has Stay which must also be signed by the house-master and the alien. You must also provide a copy of the house-masters House book [same as a Deed of Trust] to prove ownership which must be signed by the house-master. A copy of the housemaster's identification card [front and back] which must also be signed by the house-master, a copy of your lease agreement [signed], a copy of your passport face page, arrival card and entry stamp. This must be submitted within 24 hours of your arrival. If you have been here longer than 24 hours and more than three days, you will be fined 1,600 baht. Once you receive your Receipt of Notification you must staple it into one of your passport pages. Every time you re-enter the country you must report to immigration or a local police office to report your arrival and verify that you still reside at the reported address. I would recommend getting your compliance stamped into your passport or getting some type of receipt. It's unlikely that any police station will have any such stamps or documents for this purpose.

I have had an O-Visa since 2011 and I have never been required to comply with the TM-30 regulation. I completed an address notification in Chiang Mai in 2016, but I was never required to report to immigration upon re-entering the country, and I have been in and out of the country many times since 2016.

I was never notified by immigration when I submitted my TM-6 card at the airport this last November that I needed to report my address to the immigration department, but I thought that's what the TM-6 [arrival/departure] card was for, which was to report your address.

When I went to the department that accepts the TM-30 application, which was chaotic, most foreigners, like me were unaware of the enforcement of this policy, and many, like me, have never been required to comply with the TM-30 regulation. Most had no idea what forms to complete. It was fortunate that one of my neighbors told me about this because her husband had just had the experience of being caught off guard so I prepared all the documents I needed to comply with the regulation. However, everyone there, like me complained that we knew nothing about this regulation and have never been required to comply with it so we all asked why we were being penalized for something we knew nothing about. That of course fell on deaf ears and so I and everyone else had to pay the 1,600.00 baht fine.  Irregardless, make sure you get your Notification Receipt before you apply for your visa.  I assume it applies to all immigration request, but I have no way of knowing for sure.  Maybe someone else can shed some light on that subject. 

 

If you attempt to leave the country and you do not have a receipt in your passport, you may have to pay a fine; or if you're about to renew your visa or work permit, you will likely have to pay a fine.

[trainman34014]

Just a case of you and some others being behind the news.   The TM30 rule has always been on the books but never enforced until about 18 months ago when somebody discovered it would be a nice little earner !

[passon]

Yes, I'm aware now that this regulation has been on the books for a long time, which makes it enforceable.  But, I've been out of the country for eight months and when I applied for my O-Visa in January, 2017, there was no such requirement to comply with the TM-30 regulation; so yeah, it seems this is just a way to get more money from foreigners; but, since I experienced so much confusion by other foreigners who were also unaware of this regulation, I thought it might be a good idea to share this with others, just in case they, like me, had no idea that this law existed and was being enforced.  I'm not sure what news you're referring to, but hopefully, if you found out about it 18 months ago you were able to avoid being penalized.   

[Ricardo]

7 hours ago, passon said:

 when I applied for my O-Visa in January, 2017, there was no such requirement to comply with the TM-30 regulation

 

Just to say that, when I did my retirement-extension in September-2016, it certainly was required & being enforced by Chiang Mai Immigration.  Perhaps you just got lucky ?

 

Mrs Ricardo was most put-out, at being fined B1600 for not having reported me as living in her/our house, for the past decade-or-so, when I'd been complying with all their changing requirements, including 90-day-reports & TM6s !

 

If we're lucky, perhaps it might go away again, but with the government still trying to ease out the Bad-Guys, we Good-Guys will probably continue to get grief.  It is what it is.  Mai pen rai.

 

But thanks to the OP, for his attempt to give this new (to him) requirement a heads-up, to the rest of us !

[sfokevin]

I’m curious... If someone has not been in compliance and wants to register... could they not just sign a new rental lease with their landlord and then have the landlord go and apply for the TM30?

[noise]

I recommend stepping back from looking at the TM-30 as a personal affront.  

 

As Ricardo said, the govt is trying to crack down on foreigners living in the country illegally.  Regardless of how effective or how earnest, how real you think their efforts are, the TM-30 does serve that purpose.   For many expats who report the same address year after year after year, it may seem redundant, but what proof does Immigration have that you actually show up there every time you come into country? 

 

We, expats or tourists, fill out the TM-6 on arrival from out of country and say we will go live at 3/7 Chang Puak Road.    The govt has no way of knowing you actually went there unless the 3/7 Chang Puak Road home owner verifies via the TM-30 that expat Joe and/or tourist Sally has actually "moved in".     

 

While I was writing this, an example of to what Immigration is trying to do appeared in the right hand column of the page:  8-year expat with no passport deported

 

 

[mrmillersr]

I've got to renew my retirement visa next month and am just hearing about this TM 30 requirement.  I've been renting the same house for 8 years now and have not left the country.  Last couple of years I bit the bullet and used GT4 and there was no request for a TM 30 form.

 

So if I decided to not use a visa service this year would I likely be asked for this TM 30 form because it sounds like a lot of hassle on top of the BS they already put you through here?

 

[passon]

Mrmillersr - I'm not certain of the in's and outs of how the TM-30 regulation is being enforced.  It appears to be discretionary, which I base on my own experience and the comments I have read online.  I assume you are in Chiang Mai since this is the Chiang Mai forum, but since you have not left the country for some time it seems less likely you have a compliance issue regarding the TM-30 regulation.  However, I just put out this information as a heads up to my fellow expats to help prevent someone else from being caught off guard.  I would say, "be prepared."  I wasn't sure if any of this would apply to me but I decided to complete the documents, just in case.  The worst that could happen is that you don't prepare the documents and if it is required in your situation, you just go back, complete them, come back another day, submit them, and then pay the fine.  The maximum fine is 1,600.00 baht.  As Ricardo said, all of this may one day go away, but in the interim, it's like everything else related to immigration; it's a lot of paperwork and expense in both time and money; but, once your paperwork is filed, and as long as you comply with your timelines, you will remain on a glide path for the duration of your time here in Thailand.  

[Bill97]

I’m curious... If someone has not been in compliance and wants to register... could they not just sign a new rental lease with their landlord and then have the landlord go and apply for the TM30?

If they do not inquire where you lived before the new lease. Do you think that thought might not come to them? Or do you think they are like you?


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

If they do not inquire where you lived before the new lease. Do you think that thought might not come to them? Or do you think they are like you?


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

a much nicer way to put it is :   Immigration CM will see that you had no previous record of reporting

your address (TM 30) and fine you.   Going to a hotel for a few nights will also not work as they will

see when you first entered the country .... Can always try, but few win.

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

If they do not inquire where you lived before the new lease. Do you think that thought might not come to them? Or do you think they are like you?


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

The person who goes to Immigration to files the TM30 is the Thai owner of the house not the foreigner... Immigration can not ask the foreigner anything as he/she is not even there... and the Thai house owner has no knowledge or responsibility as to the foreigners previous living arrangements...

 

However if the house owner happens to be the wife I agree Immigration might question her...

Edited January 11, 2018 by sfokevin

[CMBob]

47 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

The person who goes to Immigration to files the TM30 is the Thai owner of the house not the foreigner... Immigration can not ask the foreigner anything as he/she is not even there... and the Thai house owner has no knowledge or responsibility as to the foreigners previous living arrangements...

The TM 30 form, as it clearly states just below the signature line, can be signed by the "HOUSE-MASTER", OWNER, OR POSSESSOR OF RESIDENCE"....so it's a bit unclear both on the form and under the written statutory language who exactly can or must sign or file it; however, a renter (the possessor) apparently can sign and file it (although, admittedly, the original TM30 filing would need some documents....including a copy of ID and tabien baan in the case of a Thai landlord/owner.....for the original filing).

 

Regardless, it ends up being the possessor (us) who ends up being denied Immigration services until it's properly filed and, quite often, it's us who end up paying the fine to get some services (such as an annual extension) that we need.

 

For somebody who has a proper TM30 filed for their address and then leaves and re-enters the country to the same address (if re-entering to a new address, then a new original TM30 must be filed), then the updating requirement is in place.  As to who "has" to do that, god/buddha only knows.....but, since my Thai landlord owner doesn't even know I hopped over to another country, I take care of the updating myself.  It's simple to do and can be done either at Promenada (upstairs) or at Building 3 at the old immigration office site near the airport.

 

Many renting and owning condos fortunately have a condo office which will take care of filing both the original TM30 filing as well as the updates (presuming, of course, they even know you've gone out of the country). 

 

 

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

The person who goes to Immigration to files the TM30 is the Thai owner of the house not the foreigner... Immigration can not ask the foreigner anything as he/she is not even there... and the Thai house owner has no knowledge or responsibility as to the foreigners previous living arrangements...

 

However if the house owner happens to be the wife I agree Immigration might question her...

Not necessarily that way.  I have done the TM 30 several times and updated it several times without the house owner present, no problem.  I am sure others have done the same.  House owner signs the form, a copy of their ID and a copy of their Blue Book and Bingo.

[sfokevin]

I did not say it was not possible for the foreigner to file...

 

what i I asked was:

 

If the Thai owner shows up at Immigration with a completed TM30 and a lease that was executed in the last 7/days would it not be accepted without a fine?...

 

And is is it also the case that parties to a lease can cancel a lease and re sign a new lease at any time?..,

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by sfokevin

[Dante99]

Wow

[narkeddiver]

My brother in law owns a guesthouse

 

When he does the reporting for his guests about half the time Immigration try and sting him for guests who haven’t had a TM30 since they’ve been in the country

 

So if they’ve stayed a few days in BKK and not had a TM30 there when my brother in law does the reporting they try and hold him responsible and attempt to fine him - so far he has argued his way out of it but it makes him think why he bothers to do the correct thing

[sfokevin]

^^^ If I had a guesthouse I would opt for the online reporting system... But odds are that works about as good as the online 90 day reporting... 

[Mahseer]

17 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

^^^ If I had a guesthouse I would opt for the online reporting system... But odds are that works about as good as the online 90 day reporting... 

Given the numbers of tourists that need reporting on a daily basis I would hazard a guess that it works a treat. Wouldn't go as far to put money on it but I would go as far as to hazard a guess........and that would be my limit.

[narkeddiver]

He has asked about using the online service but they told him it wasn’t worth it for him as he only has 9 rooms - I’ll get him to ask again when he goes out there next

[WinnieTheKhwai]

12 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I’m curious... If someone has not been in compliance and wants to register... could they not just sign a new rental lease with their landlord and then have the landlord go and apply for the TM30?

 

You don't even need to show a rental agreement or lease contract.  Keep in mind that this is just the basic reporting of where a foreigner is, same as what hotels do.  Hotels also don't worry about where tourists have been before they show up on their doorstep; they don't care and it's not expected of them.

 

8 hours ago, rumak said:

a much nicer way to put it is :   Immigration CM will see that you had no previous record of reporting

your address (TM 30) and fine you.   Going to a hotel for a few nights will also not work as they will

see when you first entered the country .... Can always try, but few win.

 

Like others have said, you're not the one reporting.  I also doubt they check as long as you're not on overstay, etc.   "A hotel will see when you first entered the country"... yes they will.  So?    Ever been quizzed at a hotel where you were before and providing a full list?  Hotels can't see this information even if there were several other hotels or landlords who did a TM30 report on you.

 

6 hours ago, sfokevin said:

If the Thai owner shows up at Immigration with a completed TM30 and a lease that was executed in the last 7/days would it not be accepted without a fine?...

 

The Thai owner needs to report within 1 day, not 7 days.   And the lease has nothing to do with it, you can lease something anytime, but as soon as a foreigners stays at a place then a TM30 report must be made before the end of the next day.  

 

4 hours ago, narkeddiver said:

My brother in law owns a guesthouse

 

When he does the reporting for his guests about half the time Immigration try and sting him for guests who haven’t had a TM30 since they’ve been in the country

 

That's very strange. Are you sure you understood correctly?  It's not the hotel's responsibility to check on where guests may have been before walking in the door.

 

1 hour ago, narkeddiver said:

He has asked about using the online service but they told him it wasn’t worth it for him as he only has 9 rooms - I’ll get him to ask again when he goes out there next

 

That's also very strange. I know of a place with 4 rooms that reports online just fine.   As with many bureaucracy-related things though: it often depends on who you ask.  But 9 rooms is plenty, that's several new guests every day.

[LivinLOS]

19 hours ago, noise said:

I recommend stepping back from looking at the TM-30 as a personal affront.  

 

As Ricardo said, the govt is trying to crack down on foreigners living in the country illegally.  Regardless of how effective or how earnest, how real you think their efforts are, the TM-30 does serve that purpose.   For many expats who report the same address year after year after year, it may seem redundant, but what proof does Immigration have that you actually show up there every time you come into country? 

 

We, expats or tourists, fill out the TM-6 on arrival from out of country and say we will go live at 3/7 Chang Puak Road.    The govt has no way of knowing you actually went there unless the 3/7 Chang Puak Road home owner verifies via the TM-30 that expat Joe and/or tourist Sally has actually "moved in".     

 

While I was writing this, an example of to what Immigration is trying to do appeared in the right hand column of the page:  8-year expat with no passport deported

 

 

1) I find the very idea that I should be tracked constantly an affront, not a justification.. 

 

2) how does the system have any effect on those outside the system such as your example. 

 

I have refused to comply with this rule since it came out, apart from a few experiments to understand how it worked and how TM28/30s link etc.. In no way has refusing to do it effected me, in getting new licenses, residence papers, vehicle purchases, etc.. Its a system with no point or upside and it isnt practiced in 80% of Thailand. 

[rumak]

10 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

ike others have said, you're not the one reporting.  I also doubt they check as long as you're not on overstay, etc.   "A hotel will see when you first entered the country"... yes they will.  So?    Ever been quizzed at a hotel where you were before and providing a full list?  Hotels can't see this information even if there were several other hotels or landlords who did a TM30 report on you

the "they" I am referring to is Immigration, NOT the hotel.  I do initial (that means first time the tenant rents

from us) report to CM immigration within 24 hours.  Tenants, however, HAVE BEEN FINED if they do not

have a recent TM30 receipt from wherever they resided previously.  You can argue all day if you want about whose fault (housemaster or individual).......but as OP has reported and i know personally,  if one does not

pay the fine you will not get extension or whatever service done that you are asking for.  

 

[Dante99]

29 minutes ago, rumak said:

....  Tenants, however, HAVE BEEN FINED if they do not

have a recent TM30 receipt from wherever they resided previously.  You can argue all day if you want about whose fault (housemaster or individual).......but as OP has reported and i know personally,  if one does not

pay the fine you will not get extension or whatever service done that you are asking for.  

 

Yes but...oops no buts.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Yes but...oops no buts.

hahaha    yep, everyone has a butt.   i especially like the one where someone says "it ain't right and

i ain't gonna do it !  AND i never had a problem ! "   This subject has been worn to death ( i wish).

To get the real picture a person should go to the 3rd fl. at CMI  and listen to all the buts.  Then watch

as the fines are paid.  

[LivinLOS]

or just organize your life so as to avoid it.. 

 

I no longer bother with extensions.. I travel a lot so easier to simply get annual visas.. I considered the elite card but am keen to see if this high net worth smart visa will give 4 years. 

 

I can pay the 'fee' for residence cards.. Or get a yellow house book.. 

 

Once you stop needing immigration incountry to do anything for you, and cut out all interactions with them, life becomes so much easier.. 

[stament]

Presumably CM Immigration is closed at the weekend. Therefore for people arriving into CM in a Friday does the 24 hour rule extend to Monday? Bit harsh if it doesn't....

 

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

On 1/11/2018 at 6:36 PM, sfokevin said:

I did not say it was not possible for the foreigner to file...

 

what i I asked was:

 

If the Thai owner shows up at Immigration with a completed TM30 and a lease that was executed in the last 7/days would it not be accepted without a fine?...

 

And is is it also the case that parties to a lease can cancel a lease and re sign a new lease at any time?..,

 

I heard from several O-visa/extension holders there is a 7 day grace period for 24hr reporting at CM immigration. (Not confirmed this myself). This is not the problem. The problem is it is going to be the Alien who is denied Immigration services until the fine is paid by somebody. They are going to look to your last entry stamp. If you have not lodged a TM30 CM immigration will want to know why. Very unlikely if you have been in CM for any length of time you can get around paying.

 

I went in to "update" once last year and the one girl with short hair who barely speaks English (who looks kind of cute in a certain way in the uniform) went into hysterics about me paying the fine again because I stayed one night in BKK before after arriving at Swampi before flying up to CNX. I just proffered the receipt for one night at ALOFT Bangkok and done with it. That's on the Starwood Corporation not me. Clear as mud?

[stament]

On 7/31/2018 at 4:17 AM, stament said:

Presumably CM Immigration is closed at the weekend. Therefore for people arriving into CM in a Friday does the 24 hour rule extend to Monday? Bit harsh if it doesn't....

 

 

Good question I would like to know too ????

[rumak]

7 hours ago, stament said:

Good question I would like to know too ????

reporting on monday is OK if arriving on weekend

[stament]

44 minutes ago, rumak said:

reporting on monday is OK if arriving on weekend

But this is arriving on a Friday