Bullet train or chug-a-lug?: Thai PM orders the Japanese to slow down to save money

[rooster59]

Bullet train or chug-a-lug?: Thai PM orders the Japanese to slow down to save money

 

Image: Manager

 

Japanese investors are beginning to question their involvement with the Thai government after they were told that the bullet train to Chiang Mai should not be as fast as the Shinkansen.

 

The train is being trumpeted as the new way to go from Bangkok to Chiang Mai beating the airlines.

 

But Junta chief Prayut Chan-o-cha has reportedly told project developers that the Japanese proposal for a 420 billion baht project is too much, reported Manager.

 

The PM therefore has said that the train should only go 180 to 200 kilometers an hour to keep costs down.

 

The Japanese countered that this lack of speed will mean that the train would not be able to compete with low cost airlines.

 

The Japanese have also told ministerial counterparts in Thailand that their financial involvement is in providing loans and nothing else.

 

Source: Manager

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-02-10

[shady86]

Might as well cancel it or give it to the Chinese.

[darksidedog]

Can't spend money on this project can he, because he has to keep a few hundred Billion spare for unneeded Submarines and Tanks?

[sweatalot]

I think the lower speed would fit better to Thai safety standards

[PatOngo]

Maybe this is the solution to saving costs and lives.

[Bluespunk]

12 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Can't spend money on this project can he, because he has to keep a few hundred Billion spare for unneeded Submarines and Tanks?

I question the need for a bullet train service to be honest. 

 

Not that there’s going to be one if the pm gets his way...

[akirasan]

I think this is what they are aiming for.  

[jenny2017]

 

The PM therefore has said that the train should only go 180 to 200 kilometers an hour to keep costs down.

 

  A 180 to 200  km/h fast "bullet train?"   

[tracker1]

A man with his qualifications should know a tank isn't as fast as a ferrari ! starting to sound like a spent bullet

[ratcatcher]

38 minutes ago, akirasan said:

I think this is what they are aiming for.  

Prayut has finally shown a modicum of common sense and seems willing to "bite the bullet" in this regard..

Bullet trains for Thailand, a slowly developing country, are the sort of thing dreamed up by the power guys during a good night's drinking session.

Thailand has just over half the population of Japan,  and a fraction of the industrial base. Japan has over 10 major cities scattered across the country, all with populations over 1 million.

http://www.geonames.org/JP/largest-cities-in-japan.html

Thailand's major industrial area is located in the eastern seaboard provinces of Chonburi and Rayong.

Thailand has 1 major city, Bangkok, with a population in excess of 5 million. What is in Chiang Mai?

https://population.mongabay.com/population/thailand/

As many members of this forum have previously posted, what this country needs, are fast, comfortable, reliable, safe trains that are affordable for the average citizen and that are operated on a modern R.O.W. with centralized signalling and good management.

Countries like  France, Germany and to a lesser extent the U.K., have HST which is heavily used,and have large populations scattered around the country in large urban areas, necessitating a comprehensive rail system. Industries are a major user of railways in western countries.

Thailand needs to pull in its horns and face the fact that "bullet trains" are not realistic or affordable at this time.

Chug a lug------

[ratcatcher]

1 minute ago, tracker1 said:

A man with his qualifications should know a tank isn't as fast as a ferrari ! starting to sound like a spent bullet

[ramrod711]

The Japanese countered that this lack of speed will mean that the train would not be able to compete with low cost airlines.

Could be true if you don't have to factor in 4 hour taxi waits and check in times at Don Muang airport. I think 200 kmph is fast enough in Thailand, if it has to be faster than that the maintenance should be done by the Japanese company for life .

[smutcakes]

If this does not go ahead, will the heads of the NCPO be found personally liable for all the money wasted? Including the construction of a 3.5km line in Khao Yai.

 

I doubt they care if it goes ahead. Lots of money already doled out for feasibility studies, EIA's etc etc

[thaibeachlovers]

As one been on many train trips in LOS, the priority is not faster trains, it's putting in dual rail lines on the main routes and building a rail link to Chaing Rai, whether from Chiang Mai or Uttaradit.

A proper service to the eastern seaboard ( Pattaya ) would also be good.

Very few of current rail users in LOS will be able to afford the fares for a HST unless heavily subsidised.

[ratcatcher]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If this does not go ahead, will the heads of the NCPO be found personally liable for all the money wasted? Including the construction of a 3.5km line in Khao Yai.

I doubt they care if it goes ahead. Lots of money already doled out for feasibility studies, EIA's etc etc

"Including the construction of a 3.5km line in Khao Yai."

Prayut is not saying cancel the railway, he seems to be saying cancel the bullet trains. Track is track and will still be needed regardless of how fast the trains operate at..

[smutcakes]

Just now, ratcatcher said:

"Including the construction of a 3.5km line in Khao Yai."

Prayut is not saying cancel the railway, he seems to be saying cancel the bullet trains. Track is track and will still be needed regardless of how fast the trains operate at..

Maybe, not sure whether the tracks for a bullet train are the same as a normal one. Despite having a ground breaking ceremony, i doubt the 3.5km line will ever be completed and be anything other than a piggy bank.

[Ron19]

A post against forum rules has been removed.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, ratcatcher said:

"Including the construction of a 3.5km line in Khao Yai."

Prayut is not saying cancel the railway, he seems to be saying cancel the bullet trains. Track is track and will still be needed regardless of how fast the trains operate at..

Really? The track is the most expensive part of a HST system and if not needed for a fast train is just a waste of money, even if a slow train is run on it.

Can't put a fast train on normal track because of potential for vehicles on the track at road crossings, as has happened many times in LOS already.

[Crossy]

Maybe our leader should read this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_125

 

We have had 200kph trains in service in the UK since 1976 (42 years) running on ordinary tracks (not specialist HSR tracks, track is not just track). Ok it's standard gauge, but 200kph is almost slow enough for metre gauge.

 

Malaysia has the fastest metre gauge trains (160kph)

 

 

[ratcatcher]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

Maybe, not sure whether the tracks for a bullet train are the same as a normal one. Despite having a ground breaking ceremony, i doubt the 3.5km line will ever be completed and be anything other than a piggy bank.

I understand your point regarding the degree of engineering required to build a right of way for HST as opposed to a quality ROW for fast trains. Piggy bank makes sense too.

[ratcatcher]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Really? The track is the most expensive part of a HST system and if not needed for a fast train is just a waste of money, even if a slow train is run on it.

Can't put a fast train on normal track because of potential for vehicles on the track at road crossings, as has happened many times in LOS already.

Has anybody actually seen photos of the 3.5km test section in Saraburi/Korat province?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, ratcatcher said:

Has anybody actually seen photos of the 3.5km test section in Saraburi/Korat province?

I think they would have to be CGI.

[smutcakes]

I would also question how many people travel regularly between Chiang Mai and BKK, or indeed have any necessity or desire to do so. Aside from specific times of the year when CM is very popular with Thais, there does not seem to be any specific reason why people would suddenly increase their trips there.

[Eric Loh]

If not Shinkansen, the Japanese will not build it. They will also not invest. So this project is going nowhere and big lose of face for Prayut. 

[shady86]

I would also question how many people travel regularly between Chiang Mai and BKK, or indeed have any necessity or desire to do so. Aside from specific times of the year when CM is very popular with Thais, there does not seem to be any specific reason why people would suddenly increase their trips there.

I'm not sure if you travel regularly but I do it almost every month and the flights are mostly full with delays especially during peak season. As business traveler, I would use bullet train if the guarantee travel time below 3 hrs.

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, shady86 said:

18 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I would also question how many people travel regularly between Chiang Mai and BKK, or indeed have any necessity or desire to do so. Aside from specific times of the year when CM is very popular with Thais, there does not seem to be any specific reason why people would suddenly increase their trips there.

I'm not sure if you travel regularly but I do it almost every month and the flights are mostly full with delays especially during peak season. As business traveler, I would use bullet train if the guarantee travel time below 3 hrs.

 

Fair enough- i have worked here for 10 years and have some CM clients, but most of them are based in BKK, travel here regularly, or can use a telephone, conference facilities. I just struggle to see CM ever being such a place where meetings of such high importance need to be taking place face to face on the ground in CM for there to be a steady stream of passengers travelling on a HST. 

 

 

[trainman34014]

Don't know what all the fuss is about as it will never be built anyway !

 

[jenny2017]

24 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

If not Shinkansen, the Japanese will not build it. They will also not invest. So this project is going nowhere and big lose of face for Prayut. 

Most Thais are aware that trains are "Seer Wellaa", or wasted time. Within a time period of only ten months, the locomotives of two trains broke down in the middle of nowhere and replacement took many hours. The country isn't ready for high speed trains, aeeh accidents and they know that. 

 

 

 

     

[ChouDoufu]

55 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If this does not go ahead, will the heads of the NCPO be found personally liable for all the money wasted? Including the construction of a 3.5km line in Khao Yai.

 

i believe the korat test track is part of the chinese medium speed

rail line to nong khai.  different project.

 

the japanese simply do not understand thai economics.

under the thainess doctrine, any enterprise that is losing

money on sales can make up the difference by raising

ticket prices.  double the prices = double the profits!

[shady86]

 
Fair enough- i have worked here for 10 years and have some CM clients, but most of them are based in BKK, travel here regularly, or can use a telephone, conference facilities. I just struggle to see CM ever being such a place where meetings of such high importance need to be taking place face to face on the ground in CM for there to be a steady stream of passengers travelling on a HST. 
 
 

Most of my customers are Japanese companies located in Northern region industrial estate and Japanese have different way of doing business. That's why you can see many Japanese business traveller's using this route and why the Japanese are keen to build a high speed railway.