Hundreds gather at Bangkok's Democracy Monument to demand election

[AGareth2]

33 minutes ago, WHYWHY said:

Yes brave young men and women 

However arrest warrents issued for them

But none issued for the group trying to get Dep premier to stay 

Why have warrents not been issued for that group

good guys in

bad guys out

as they say

[greeneking]

1 hour ago, ELVIS123456 said:

will someone give me some logical and coherent thoughts to support their opinion that the junta is bad and democracy is good.

 

i have given just a few examples of countries where military/monarchy was replaced by a democracy and it has been a disaster.

 

the past is a great predictor for the future, and is a far better test than "my teacher told me it was so".

 

subject is too vast, but some quick examples of countries who have benefitted by replacing military/ monarchy:

japan

Germany

italy

spain and portugal

france (not in one go)

 

[JAG]

2 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

more insults - is that all you libs have got?

no logical well-formed dialogue supporting an opinion?

silly questions 

Since there seems to be little in the way of logical well-formed dialogue supporting your opinions:

"Conservative = quote facts and figures (pragmatic realists).

Liberal = ignore the facts and personal insults (slaves to fashion and ideology)." being a prime example, we are rather forced to fall back on taking the piss...

[maddermax]

I would suggest that this period has been more stable and, whilst there is still corruption, that the military have done the job that the politicians did not. 

[ELVIS123456]

3 minutes ago, greeneking said:

subject is too vast, but some quick examples of countries who have benefitted by replacing military/ monarchy:

japan

Germany

italy

spain and portugal

france (not in one go)

 

You know I meant third world countries in SEAsia like Thailand, and in Africa, St America, Middle East, etc.  But if you cant see the difference between them and post WW2 changes, then I am wasting my time arguing with democracy fanatics.

 

Gotta go to golf - same time another day? I am sure you will be still here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JAG]

12 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Anti junta posters are afraid because the junta does not fit into their own versions of democracy. These guys prefer a 3rd world country to live in but strangely to say the least.. They want a fully functioning 1st world democracy

 

What I have noticed is that finally the penny has dropped and the junta bashing posts have diminished.

 

As guests we should not fight the wishes of a nation. 60 million thais can not be wrong!

 

An argument which falls at the first fence - the junta resolutely will not ask the 60 million Thais what they want,  In fact, you may recall they seized power when the 60 million Thais were in the process of being asked - because they (the junta) knew that the answer would be one that they didn't want.

 

Junta supporters who claim that democracy has failed in Thailand and therefore a junta is needed, completely ignore that the reason that democracy has failed is that the junta overthrew it.

[joecoolfrog]

27 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Anti junta posters are afraid because the junta does not fit into their own versions of democracy. These guys prefer a 3rd world country to live in but strangely to say the least.. They want a fully functioning 1st world democracy

 

What I have noticed is that finally the penny has dropped and the junta bashing posts have diminished.

 

As guests we should not fight the wishes of a nation. 60 million thais can not be wrong!

 

The majority of Thais want an elected government !

[heybruce]

46 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

what has happened to all the military dictatorships we used to have in Africa?

 

They were taken over by enforced democracies that resulted in even worse outcomes for the people.  None of which we hear about since the media isnt interested in failed democracies - only bad evil military/monarchies.

 

So Myanmar it is.  OK - lets start and finish there.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/world/asia/myanmar-democracy-rohingya.html

It took me all of 2 minutes to find a source you wouldn't immediately dismiss as biased. Your own NY Times it is.

 

You are wrong. Democracy in Myanmar is failing. 

 

Perhaps that means I am right?  Perhaps not.  True - perhaps I am not.

 

BUT - religious like fanatical ideological belief that Democracy is good and anything else is bad - is wrong.  

 

The junta are in transition to Democracy - they know they cant stay forever. They may even put forward candidates for the election. I hope they do as I believe a 3rd Party would be good for Thailand. The previous attempts at Democracy always devolved into a power struggle between reds and yellows - a brown party might offer some balance.  Hey - before you tear that idea down - why not let the people decide if they want to elect a military rule.  Isnt that true democracy?  Wasn't  Washington, Grant, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, etc. all senior military men before they become POTUS?  

 

You've given examples of democracies that aren't working too well (though have yet to give an example of a democracy that wants to return to military rule).  Why don't you give an example of a military junta that transitions to democracy.  A transition without staging another coup when the military doesn't like where democracy is leading, as is done in Thailand.

 

"why not let the people decide if they want to elect a military rule."

 

Fine, hold elections, let the military put up candidates.  No one has objected to that.  However you clearly want the military to stay in power until the deck is well stacked in its favor. 

[brucec64]

Anti junta posters are afraid because the junta does not fit into their own versions of democracy. These guys prefer a 3rd world country to live in but strangely to say the least.. They want a fully functioning 1st world democracy 
What I have noticed is that finally the penny has dropped and the junta bashing posts have diminished.
 
As guests we should not fight the wishes of a nation. 60 million thais can not be wrong!
 

I must have missed something in the last 4 years. When exactly did 60 million Thais express their wishes?

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[heybruce]

44 minutes ago, Pisdjuk said:

Interesting to read some of he comments here. 

 

Wondering exactly WHAT it is so many farang have against the so-called “junta”? 

 

I have been a frequent guest to this wonderful country since late 1980’es and see many good initiatives by the ruling government. A government, so it seems to me, which want to develop Thailand, build infrastructure and create security for foreign investment (and I don’t think of buying house and land here). A government which tries to create a connection between expenditures and state income (no country can exist without taxes or by paying overprice for rice to it’s farmers). 

 

It seems as if a lot here are unhappy now the government has started ruling and actually acts to many of the problems in the country (flooding, lack of pension funds, lack of proper infrastructure and lack of a taxation system). 

 

The Thai people (I really like them) needs to be better educated, get better jobs and try to understand the huge potential this country has to become much richer. 

 

Yes, I am a pro-Junta guy and I wish for Thailand that the Government won’t let go of the chance to build a sustainable future for the country before leaving it to the masses.

I won't attempt to address all of this, I'll just point out that being a visitor doesn't give you a clue.  Reality isn't the carefully censored image the junta tries to put forth.  Thailand has a lot of experience with military rule, it never served the majority of the Thais well, though a minority always did very well.

[heybruce]

34 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Anti junta posters are afraid because the junta does not fit into their own versions of democracy. These guys prefer a 3rd world country to live in but strangely to say the least.. They want a fully functioning 1st world democracy

 

What I have noticed is that finally the penny has dropped and the junta bashing posts have diminished.

 

As guests we should not fight the wishes of a nation. 60 million thais can not be wrong!

 

If 60 million thais can't be wrong, then let them have an election and clearly state what they want.

[TKDfella]

4 hours ago, hansnl said:

Handing power "back to the people"?

Are you really serious?

The elected politico's will do exactly what they want to do and that is mostly opposite to what the people want.

Democracy has been degraded, nearly everywhere in the world, to a periodical "voting" with no direct influence from the voters on politics.

Money governs the world.

Not people.

So freedom of speech etc. matters not? You are obviously not one of those who would say 'I dislike what you say but I respect you have the right to say it.'

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, ginjag said:

Sorry Democracy lover,  if you call  Thaksin regime democracy.  Drugs  --buying off electorate-- amnesty-- running the job from Dubai, with his sister not even able to govern--then the rice--tablets for every kid-------we do not have to go there again.    Red army taking over BKK.    I was happy when Yingluck was got rid of and her corrupt cabnet.   The army was near the best alternative, as a snap election ordered by Thaksin to get Yingluck back to pull his strings. Then we have to compare  your interpretation that the PM is gagging the people---Just remember when Thaksin controlled Thai Rak Thai---all the TV -media,  so elections are not an answer everytime--but it's nice to say elections for democracy.

Didn't you say there would definitely be elections by 2017 at the latest , and if they didn't materialise you would concede that the Junta were full of hot air ?

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, ginjag said:

 

Hey Bruce, never reading what posters are saying---in complete denial, you are far more anti PM than I am a lover--FACT.    My points about Yingluck you seem to be in denial about, the same tone as when we were posting years ago. so therefore it is not worthwhile discussing again.    You have this hatred for the Army,  Not a good situation agree but better than the old red regime.     Elections do not solve problems, but you do not see this. My quick points about the old Thaksin corrupt saga you overlook .  have fun with the posts I said what I think is the truth, as I have nothing to gain. Army out ???      who will be in  ???     I have no answer as I have no agenda.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, InMyShadow said:

Hundreds?

_zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yes hundreds of people braver than you ...

[InMyShadow]

Yes hundreds of people braver than you ...

Braver than 60 million thais? Your a low life to suggest they are cowards.

How about you stop hiding behind mommy's skirt and get out there!

[WHYWHY]

Don't just think it's just Farangs as you like to call them

I think you will find a vast number of Thai National make comments here 

[ginjag]

8 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Didn't you say there would definitely be elections by 2017 at the latest , and if they didn't materialise you would concede that the Junta were full of hot air ?

Definitely not,  when was I supposed to have said that  ??     please show,    I have been off this subject long ago due to posters being put on to speak negative about the intervention.     NOW please to confirm this is what I said, if not a sorry would be welcome.

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Hey Bruce, never reading what posters are saying---in complete denial, you are far more anti PM than I am a lover--FACT.    My points about Yingluck you seem to be in denial about, the same tone as when we were posting years ago. so therefore it is not worthwhile discussing again.    You have this hatred for the Army,  Not a good situation agree but better than the old red regime.     Elections do not solve problems, but you do not see this. My quick points about the old Thaksin corrupt saga you overlook .  have fun with the posts I said what I think is the truth, as I have nothing to gain. Army out ???      who will be in  ???     I have no answer as I have no agenda.

Could you identify the post of mine you are referring to, and what specifically you object to?

 

I'll speculate:  I didn't contest your claims about the performance of the PTP government, I stated that an election when the PTP was at a low point in popularity was a good way to let the voters show what they thought of its performance.

 

As I stated shortly after the coup and many, many times since; I am opposed to military rule.  That is not the function of the military and not what a proper military does.  So yes, I am definitely anti-PM.  What's your point.

 

BTW, I'm not anti-Army, not when it is a proper, professional army that defends the nation that stays out of politics.

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

Definitely not,  when was I supposed to have said that  ??     please show,    I have been off this subject long ago due to posters being put on to speak negative about the intervention.     NOW please to confirm this is what I said, if not a sorry would be welcome.

"intervention"!  You still can't call a coup a coup.

[joecoolfrog]

6 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Braver than 60 million thais? Your a low life to suggest they are cowards.

How about you stop hiding behind mommy's skirt and get out there!

" 60 million Thais "

What on earth are you talking about ?

Demonstrating under threat of arrest takes conviction and guts , mocking them is disgusting !

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Could you identify the post of mine you are referring to, and what specifically you object to?

 

I'll speculate:  I didn't contest your claims about the performance of the PTP government, I stated that an election when the PTP was at a low point in popularity was a good way to let the voters show what they thought of its performance.

 

As I stated shortly after the coup and many, many times since; I am opposed to military rule.  That is not the function of the military and not what a proper military does.  So yes, I am definitely anti-PM.  What's your point.

 

BTW, I'm not anti-Army, not when it is a proper, professional army that defends the nation that stays out of politics.

Look your old posts up,  maybe you are not aware what you post even,  Slagging anyone off that tries to point out the sad pitfalls of the Thaksin era.   Had that snap election happened we all know that Yingluck would win again-before the sad truth came out about the rice scam and all, a cunning Dubai trick.   But you have election mania when the Thai at that time were unaware of the Yingluck governments sneak amnesty and the rest.    How much money was lost in the rice scam Thailand could not go through that loss again,   so we got your baddies in to stop it.

[HHTel]

Power is not going to be returned to the people even following an election.  The term democracy has been redefined and even Prayut has called it 'Democracy Thai Style'.  Limited power is given to the people in that they can vote for the lower house while the military maintain power along with appointed representatives in the upper house and a non-elected prime minister that may not be a politician and doesn't have to have any affiliation with the 'ruling party'.

[ginjag]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"intervention"!  You still can't call a coup a coup.

No it was a timely intervention to stop a regime losing near 1 trillion baht,     Coups happen for different reasons this one was an intervention

[joecoolfrog]

9 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Definitely not,  when was I supposed to have said that  ??     please show,    I have been off this subject long ago due to posters being put on to speak negative about the intervention.     NOW please to confirm this is what I said, if not a sorry would be welcome.

You said it several years ago when you were lionising the junta. I said at the time I would remind you and am not the least surprised that you now lack the courage of your convictions.

[Eligius]

3 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Power is not going to be returned to the people even following an election. 

I agree that power is not going to be returned to the people, since the Powers That Should Not Be have stitched everything up in their own favour with their new 'Constitution'. 

 

Yet even that Constitution boldly and magnificently declares:

 

'The sovereignty belongs to the Thai people'.

 

No one and nothing in Thailand  (according to this Constitution) can legally usurp what rightfully belongs TO THE THAI PEOPLE - their SOVEREIGNTY.

 

I just wish more Thais would quote this clause again and again and again - and thus rub the noses of the autocrats in their own words!

[InMyShadow]

If 60 million thais can't be wrong, then let them have an election and clearly state what they want.

They don't want an election. Listen... The sound of 60 million thais saying NOTHING is deafening.

You want an election. A few hundred pathetically organised protesters want it

The rest of the nation have no interest. If you think they do then prove it. [emoji4]

[SpicyMeatball]

8 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

I have a feeling it's gonna take more than "100s"...

"100s" they can accommodate in jail, "1000s" might be  tougher :)

Well said. 

Its going to take a few million nation wide to make changes. But happy to see some Thais have the balls to stand up & speak out!

Kudos to swift deocratic change... for the people, by the people

[joecoolfrog]

3 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

They don't want an election. Listen... The sound of 60 million thais saying NOTHING is deafening.

You want an election. A few hundred pathetically organised protesters want it

The rest of the nation have no interest. If you think they do then prove it.
 

Men with white coats job !

[joecoolfrog]

5 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

They don't want an election. Listen... The sound of 60 million thais saying NOTHING is deafening.

You want an election. A few hundred pathetically organised protesters want it

The rest of the nation have no interest. If you think they do then prove it.
 

The only Thais that dont want an election are those that know their side will lose , your absurd rambling and name calling wont change that fact.