blood urgently needed

[meatboy]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

What was the result of the ultrasound? 

they were late last night after 11hrs.at the hospital,i told the wife wait till you get home and then I will go through it all with her.

TAFF.

[meatboy]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:57 AM, wildewillie89 said:

What was the result of the ultrasound? 

hi WW. I will try and post what I can read,quite a lot are measured different to most I can read.

RBC.[x10] divide 6,range5.2-8.6     result 2.82.

hemoglobin           range 12.4-19.1.result 8.

hemocrite           range 29.8.-57.5  result 23.

mcv.                   range 62.7-72       result81.5.

mch.                   range 22.2-25.4   result 28.5.

mchc.                 range 34-36.6      result  34.9.

wbc.                    range  5.4-15.3    result 11.39.

platelet [x10] divde 3  range 160-525 result 19.

neutrophils        range 51-84       result 75.7.

lymphocytes     range 8-38         result 13.8.

monocytes        range  1-9          result 7.6.

calcium              range 9.6-11.6   result 9.1.

alt [sgpt]            range 4-91         result 58.

cholesterol       range 146-156   result  152

creatinine         range 0.6-1.4     result  1.4.

PROTEIN         RANGE 5.8-7.9   RESULT 4..2

ALBUMIN        RANGE 2.6-4      RESULT 1.5

what the doctor was concerned about was the platelet count,score last test 98,000 so I don't know how it is worked out.

the above 2 after looking at the last 6 blood test how they could be missed out as these are very important.

as ehrichia had showed up again the doctor said first that had to go.

also SAM had been given too much doxy over 50mg.a day for over 4months.

now for the ultra sound NO GROUTH OR CANCER,LIVER A LITTLE BIT BIG AND INFLAMED.

THE BILE DUCT WAS A LITTLE BIT CLOUDY WITH A SMALL BLOCKAGE.

the past 4 days he has been in bkk.he thought he was on holliday,very alert.

back on the 5th.march.

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, meatboy said:

hi WW. I will try and post what I can read,quite a lot are measured different to most I can read.

RBC.[x10] divide 6,range5.2-8.6     result 2.82.

hemoglobin           range 12.4-19.1.result 8.

hemocrite           range 29.8.-57.5  result 23.

mcv.                   range 62.7-72       result81.5.

mch.                   range 22.2-25.4   result 28.5.

mchc.                 range 34-36.6      result  34.9.

wbc.                    range  5.4-15.3    result 11.39.

platelet [x10] divde 3  range 160-525 result 19.

neutrophils        range 51-84       result 75.7.

lymphocytes     range 8-38         result 13.8.

monocytes        range  1-9          result 7.6.

calcium              range 9.6-11.6   result 9.1.

alt [sgpt]            range 4-91         result 58.

cholesterol       range 146-156   result  152

creatinine         range 0.6-1.4     result  1.4.

PROTEIN         RANGE 5.8-7.9   RESULT 4..2

ALBUMIN        RANGE 2.6-4      RESULT 1.5

what the doctor was concerned about was the platelet count,score last test 98,000 so I don't know how it is worked out.

the above 2 after looking at the last 6 blood test how they could be missed out as these are very important.

as ehrichia had showed up again the doctor said first that had to go.

also SAM had been given too much doxy over 50mg.a day for over 4months.

now for the ultra sound NO GROUTH OR CANCER,LIVER A LITTLE BIT BIG AND INFLAMED.

THE BILE DUCT WAS A LITTLE BIT CLOUDY WITH A SMALL BLOCKAGE.

the past 4 days he has been in bkk.he thought he was on holliday,very alert.

back on the 5th.march.

So what was their opinion on removing the spleen? 

[meatboy]

11 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

So what was their opinion on removing the spleen? 

I think he was more concerned about putting right the wrongs.with the platelets low its put on hold,before he has all this done I am sure there was a little bit of incopetance someone with not a lot of common sense,or lacking in the knowledge of a proper vet.

[meatboy]

we were clearly made to panic last week by them that didnt know the process of collecting blood for a transfusion.

they at chula were very surprised when the wife told them of what we were meant to believe that this had to be done on Monday.they didn't even know where the blood was coming from.the doctor at chula shaved more of his coat so they could see a lot more of his spleen.so when he goes back on the 5th.things might have improved.

[wildewillie89]

If the ultrasound came back good (no cancers etc), then I would definitely re-assess if it has to be removed. Just purely due to how often he gets tick borne diseases. Probably slightly enlarged due to the Ehrlichia. 

From memory he has or has had Babesia and seems to have Ehrlichia every time you go back. Did they do another test for Babesia? Babesia needs 2-3 tests after treatment to make sure treatment works (as it is hard to get rid of). Not to mention if he keeps getting tick diseases, then obviously has chance of co-infections. Could explain a lot re anemia or even potential immune related anemia issues triggered by the Babesia. A lot of info out their relating to splenectomised dogs and Babesia, some places say dogs who have had their spleen removed and are suspected of having Babesia should be considered emergency patients so I would do it as a very last/no other choice resort. 

Have they ever discussed potential immune related issues (such as IMHA - quite common type of anemia)? The vets will find that difficult to diagnose probably as they are always getting positive results for tick diseases, but it is something that can be caused by blood parasites. Splenectomy may help patients of this, but again, a risk re Babesia. 

Was he on the Bravecto? Why picking up the Ehrlichia still? 

[meatboy]

14 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

If the ultrasound came back good (no cancers etc), then I would definitely re-assess if it has to be removed. Just purely due to how often he gets tick borne diseases. Probably slightly enlarged due to the Ehrlichia. 

From memory he has or has had Babesia and seems to have Ehrlichia every time you go back. Did they do another test for Babesia? Babesia needs 2-3 tests after treatment to make sure treatment works (as it is hard to get rid of). Not to mention if he keeps getting tick diseases, then obviously has chance of co-infections. Could explain a lot re anemia or even potential immune related anemia issues triggered by the Babesia. A lot of info out their relating to splenectomised dogs and Babesia, some places say dogs who have had their spleen removed and are suspected of having Babesia should be considered emergency patients so I would do it as a very last/no other choice resort. 

Have they ever discussed potential immune related issues (such as IMHA - quite common type of anemia)? The vets will find that difficult to diagnose probably as they are always getting positive results for tick diseases, but it is something that can be caused by blood parasites. Splenectomy may help patients of this, but again, a risk re Babesia. 

Was he on the Bravecto? Why picking up the Ehrlichia still? 

this parasite infections seem to have gone on and off for over 3yrs.dont ask me about vets [7diff ones] who have ripped us off.we have not found a tick on him for 26months.the house is tick free,the garden is treated every yr.but for some reasons they keep returning after months and months of treatment.what we have  used is control line drop on the neck which we to work never a tick.he has had 4 imizol treatments.must be over 500doxy besides enough others to sink a ship.as for babesia only once DEC 2017 then it disappeared after the imizol.the previous imizol treatments were to get rid of hepatoozon this was the first blood test he had jan.2015.since then its seems to have been when they get rid of one thing they [vets] make sure they will find something else to feed their pockets.i can tell you stories which are hard to believe but I can tell you THEY ARE NOT.when vets see falang with a big house the pound signs are in their eye.s.

its over 35yrs.since I have been with wife and we are starting to HATE every thing about Thailand.but being 73yrs.old

I have made my bed SO LAY IN IT. if our boy gets through all this we will consult the doctor at chula.about wether he can go on bravecto.

meatboy.

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, meatboy said:

this parasite infections seem to have gone on and off for over 3yrs.dont ask me about vets [7diff ones] who have ripped us off.we have not found a tick on him for 26months.the house is tick free,the garden is treated every yr.but for some reasons they keep returning after months and months of treatment.what we have  used is control line drop on the neck which we to work never a tick.he has had 4 imizol treatments.must be over 500doxy besides enough others to sink a ship.as for babesia only once DEC 2017 then it disappeared after the imizol.the previous imizol treatments were to get rid of hepatoozon this was the first blood test he had jan.2015.since then its seems to have been when they get rid of one thing they [vets] make sure they will find something else to feed their pockets.i can tell you stories which are hard to believe but I can tell you THEY ARE NOT.when vets see falang with a big house the pound signs are in their eye.s.

its over 35yrs.since I have been with wife and we are starting to HATE every thing about Thailand.but being 73yrs.old

I have made my bed SO LAY IN IT. if our boy gets through all this we will consult the doctor at chula.about wether he can go on bravecto.

meatboy.

Bravecto now is very available in Thailand. It is the one drug vets know works (with demodectic mange also), so there is not much chance of vets using you as an ATM if the dog is on it. The spot on along the neck is useless for many dogs for some reason here. The in-laws Retriever has ticks all over her with it. Some dogs it works for, but I have seen many it doesn't to the level needed. Also it takes too long to kill ticks (48 hours), so diseases can be transmitted before the tick dies (which would explain why he gets diseased but you haven't found ticks). Bravecto kills the ticks before they get a chance to transmit the disease (12 hours), so it is virtually impossible as ticks take up to 24 hours to transmit disease (vets know this). Yes, it is a strong drug, but it is approved and necessary for many, as from memory, up to 24% of dogs are infected in some areas of the country. The side effects are a lot less common than the rate your boy is picking up diseases. 

I would ask the vets to re-test for Babesia, and every other tick disease they are capable of testing. Standard clinic tests only show the Rickettsia infections. So if they haven't re-tested for those other problems he has been diagnosed for in the past then it is pretty much a losing battle finding out why his bloods are always all over the place. If can get clear testing on everything and use Bravecto, then you have a good place for the vets to start. It may just lead to the dog naturally having slight anemia that is exacerbated by tick diseases that it can be managed when not infected. Or immune related caused by parasites that can be managed with medication without taking the spleen out. 

It is tough for vets as obviously the dog cannot communicate the exact symptoms and symptoms we can see are generally the same for many issues. So it is important for us owners to make sure we can eliminate a lot of things by the way the dog lives so the vets have more of a chance. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

10 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Bravecto now is very available in Thailand. It is the one drug vets know works (with demodectic mange also), so there is not much chance of vets using you as an ATM if the dog is on it. The spot on along the neck is useless for many dogs for some reason here. The in-laws Retriever has ticks all over her with it. Some dogs it works for, but I have seen many it doesn't to the level needed. Also it takes too long to kill ticks (48 hours), so diseases can be transmitted before the tick dies (which would explain why he gets diseased but you haven't found ticks). Bravecto kills the ticks before they get a chance to transmit the disease (12 hours), so it is virtually impossible as ticks take up to 24 hours to transmit disease (vets know this). Yes, it is a strong drug, but it is approved and necessary for many, as from memory, up to 24% of dogs are infected in some areas of the country. The side effects are a lot less common than the rate your boy is picking up diseases. 

I would ask the vets to re-test for Babesia, and every other tick disease they are capable of testing. Standard clinic tests only show the Rickettsia infections. So if they haven't re-tested for those other problems he has been diagnosed for in the past then it is pretty much a losing battle finding out why his bloods are always all over the place. If can get clear testing on everything and use Bravecto, then you have a good place for the vets to start. It may just lead to the dog naturally having slight anemia that is exacerbated by tick diseases that it can be managed when not infected. Or immune related that can be managed with medication without taking the spleen out. 

It is tough for vets as obviously the dog cannot communicate the exact symptoms and symptoms we can see are generally the same for many issues. So it is important for us owners to make sure we can eliminate a lot of things by the way the dog lives so the vets have more of a chance. 

now I must ask you to explain what you have posted please.first we check him every night no different to what we have been doing for the past 3yrs.yet you say all the blood tests he have had in the past only show rickettsia,so when the test say's e-canis,anaplasma,hepatoozon found what is MISSING,taking into acc.its the first time babesia was found 17th.nov.2017.as I have posted the test results WHAT ARE THE OTHER TESTS.its the first time his RBC has been under 5,they have been mostly over 6 for the past 3yrs.and his WBC has been perfect.up until now there has only been one that we have been concered about PLATELETS.when vets have given him medication he is always depressed,when not on them he is completely different.

you state ask your vet [CHULA]to re-test for babesia ? so what did one of the best hospitals in Thailand do this week.11hrs.

its over 3months since babesia was eliminated.with treatment imizol over 2weeks.

we need to now where are these parasites coming from,he does not go near another dog,when we take out he has never ever been off the lead.there are no other dogs that come near him,so WHERE DID THE BABESIA COME FROM.

 

side affects,september 2015 a heavy nose bleed at 5am.vet said it was a combination of ,steroids,anti-biotics,and a few more given to him at the same time by a vet who didn't care one bit.from april that yr.never showed one symptom of any illness.sept.he had a fight with a snake in the garden,so to be sure he was alright we had him tested.but yes the vet found something.then we had him tested in feb.2016 as we didn't trust the previous one,one test and the all clear was given.march 2017 he got biten on the nose by a female rat that had just given birth,he goe a slight nose bleed.better get him checked out [I don't like rats] yes once again the parasites were there.after 3months of pill pills and more pills. we found their machine they used to do the blood tests was faulty. so the wife took him to one of the big hospitals vetinary] all was ok just some bile that needed treated.

now we come to oct.13th.12am.he has a slight nose bleed we had tabs.to stop it one hr.all clear and he gets a good nights sleep.9am.better take him to the vets oct.-feb.2017-2018 you know about.

after this post I will be warning what I think about certain medication and our findings.

[meatboy]

WW89 I have asked you to explain where are the test results for RICKETTSIA.? you now I will find it for myself so please can you explain.

my findings for rickettsia are as follows,another name is EHRLICHIOSIS which has been found again,ehrlichia canis which is carried by the brown dog tick[if eaten] this attacks the neutrophils in the WHITE BLOOD CELLS.and also it attacks the lymphocyts as both of these are unaffected and I can go back to 2015.i wonder why ehrlichia keeps popping up.so what are the other ones that need to be re-tested for please .and what test is it.

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

WW89 I have asked you to explain where are the test results for RICKETTSIA.? you now I will find it for myself so please can you explain.

my findings for rickettsia are as follows,another name is EHRLICHIOSIS which has been found again,ehrlichia canis which is carried by the brown dog tick[if eaten] this attacks the neutrophils in the WHITE BLOOD CELLS.and also it attacks the lymphocyts as both of these are unaffected and I can go back to 2015.i wonder why ehrlichia keeps popping up.so what are the other ones that need to be re-tested for please .and what test is it.

Rickettsia infections - the SNAP test will pick these up. I think it was a issue of miscommunication. 

I don't think you have ever posted any Babesia test results. You just said the dog has had Babesia diagnosis before. Babesia needs 2-3 re-tests (testing at 60 and 90 days after treatment). Did he get them, if he did then obviously I must not have seen you mention it. If just going off the fact he was treated for it, then that isn't full proof as Babesia doesn't always respond to treatment. *Also it is suggested that treatment with imizol makes the dogs more susceptible to reinfection as the antibodies cant do their job. So if he keeps getting infected, and Babesia is obviously around your area, then logic probably dictates that re-testing should occur. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12809752

He can be checked and rechecked every night, but the fact of the matter is he is continually testing positive to tick diseases, and that is most probably due to that he has been on spot on treatment, rather than Bravecto. It isn't difficult for dogs to pick up ticks. When I walk my dogs I see them crawling along the ground sometimes. Many members homes have them purely from a street dog laying at their gate entrance. That is why those who use Bravecto don't generally have issues, and those that don't do. Purely a timing thing, Bravecto almost always kills ticks before they transmit disease, the neck spot on does not. 

[sappersrest]

The best test for blood parasites is a test called  real time PCR  , as you may well know they can remain in the blood for many moths.

From personal experience a SNAP test is unreliable,  two dogs a bit under the weather Snap test showed clear, but the real time PCR test showed Babesia and ecanis  in one dog and ecanis in the second.

 

Doxy worked ok after two months on the Thai dog ,but last month our Lurcher from the UK stilled showed as having ecanis, and has had another month on doxy.

 

back to Sansi animal hospital here in Chiang Mai, on Monday for another set of tests.

 

Cost of real time PCR test 1400 baht. at an independent lab arranged by vet.

Blood tests 400 baht each  at an independent lab

doxy from local pharmacy 4 baht per tablet.

[sappersrest]

Still rooting for you Taff , it is so desperate when a dog is sick ,especially when they can't tell you.

Best of luck from Mr  and Mrs sappers rest  Gai bing and Toby.

[meatboy]

WW89 sorry to be a pain,but are reading the posts,babesia I reported was first detected on the 17nov.2017 since then he has had 8blood tests with babesia not showing.nov.17th.2017 is the only time babesia showed.NEVER BEFORE..

meatboy.

[wildewillie89]

As Sappersrest said it needs to be PCR - actually two PCR tests after treatment for Babesia. 

I got confused as in the blood tests you have reported on here, I don't recall any clear mention of a Babesia test. Just CBC and SNAP results.  

 

It is not uncommon for dogs that survive and get treated to continue to be infected sub-clinically. So relapse is common. 

But if had the two PCRs then hopefully all good :). Must have misread the posts. 

[meatboy]

16 hours ago, sappersrest said:

The best test for blood parasites is a test called  real time PCR  , as you may well know they can remain in the blood for many moths.

From personal experience a SNAP test is unreliable,  two dogs a bit under the weather Snap test showed clear, but the real time PCR test showed Babesia and ecanis  in one dog and ecanis in the second.

 

Doxy worked ok after two months on the Thai dog ,but last month our Lurcher from the UK stilled showed as having ecanis, and has had another month on doxy.

 

back to Sansi animal hospital here in Chiang Mai, on Monday for another set of tests.

 

Cost of real time PCR test 1400 baht. at an independent lab arranged by vet.

Blood tests 400 baht each  at an independent lab

doxy from local pharmacy 4 baht per tablet.

I must thank you for the information regarding a PCR test,after our boy has had  must be over 30 blood tests that a PCR test has never been mentioned,or is it that babesia has never showed before nov.2017 then it disappeared after the next test and hasn't reappeared since.the wife will ask them at CHULA [5th march] next visit about it.

when I think about it up until nov.2017 only once and I repeat ONLY ONCE JAN.2015 did he show any sign of a parasite infection which was a wobble like he was drunk.since then after been treated at many clinics no symptoms of parasite disease. whatsoever.all the tests where all ways well within the range,if one was low or high it was only minimal.

only ever the concern was his PLATELET count which for 3yrs.has been up and down,some labs totally different to others.some of the tests you couldn't except as one big clinic we found out  their machine was FAULTY.

when hepatoozon was first detected jan.2015 it only shows maybe once or twice a yr.kohn kaen uni.explained to the wife this was very rare.i will post my findings with previous clinics after I have fed my boy.

meatboy.

always full of energy,never sick,loves his food,always happy,

[wildewillie89]

PCR will show what species of Babesia has infected the dog and it is a more sensitive test, the other tests do not. It is the best diagnosing tool - that is why I was confused about the results you posted as the vets should have sent off the blood at the initial diagnosis. When my in-laws dog tested positive to Ehrlicihia the vet also sent off blood to test for Babesia (possibly coinfection). Depending on the species will depend on the best course of treatment. 

In many dogs, treatment will not eliminate the infection. The dog may either become sub-clinically infected or a carrier (no symptoms). If sub-clinically infected and the dogs picks up another infection or is stressed then disease may relapse (symptoms). 

100% get PCR tests done before taking out his spleen. I am amazed if the vets knew he had been diagnosed for this, and hadn't seen any PCR results,  recommend to remove the spleen (as ultrasounds have always been clear of growths, cancers etc). He really, really needs his spleen if Babesia is endemic in your area. There was a study done in Mahasarakham in 2015 of 79 street dogs. 21.5% tested positive to Ehrlichia, 10.1% to Hepatozoon, 6.3% to Babesia and 2.5% coinfection (Ehr/Bab)...so there are a lot of diseases out and about. 
 

Edited February 24, 2018 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

I will make sure we get this PCR test done in chula [5th.march] the thing was kohn kaen uni kept the test results done  from 13th.novto the 2nd.feb.at our local vets.so the doctor at chula would not have known babesia was present on the 17nov.at chula they only had information given to them showing the test taken on the 14th.feb.at kohn kaen that was a blood transfusion and the removal of the spleen which needed to be removed within 5 days.the doctor at chula thought otherwise.

just prescribing ursolin for the bile duct, white egg powder for to boost the albumin and wanted to carry on with the doxy.we just hope that the babesia was cleared by the imizol injections.he had dec1st,and dec.15th.we are very pleased with CHULA that they carried out,ultra sound,blood test and an x-ray which lasted 11hrs.

[meatboy]

now for my thoughts on certain medication,when we had our first dealings with a vet jan.2015we were given 4 bags of different tablets.we had to ask when do you give them morning or evening.as we knew very little about these tabs,as they were all plain but different colours.after quite awhile I started to try and know which ones for what,i remember posting to a member on this forum over 3yrs.ago asking him about each tab,colour,size and shape.as our boy has been treated by more than a few vets over the past 3yrs.after a yr.we found there was a pattern to all the tests,when whatever was wrong and put right they would find something else.a couple of examples,the blood was left in the car too long we will have to do another test but it will be half price,then another vet who were very nice when they saw a falang,the second test we have done we will take it to a top animal lab in Bangkok.2days later the vet phoned that the dog needed his kidneys flushed out,[not cheap] we smelt a rat as his kidneys were when tested were always in the range.the wife done some digging and found out they had held the blood for over 43hrs so the lab.told her not to take any notice of it..so that was another one on the bike.there has been many many more,one was a vet that we would of thought this cant happen. a blood test was carried out and hepatoozon detected.

we will give him an imizol inj.so he must come back in 2 weeks for the second one.all the test results put in a nice envelope,so we could study when we got home,very easy to read,2nd.trip for the second imizol inj. and a blood test,once again the results put in a nice envelope after another 4hrs.drive got home,so lets read the results,hang on this is not right,the vet had put the results of the test done 2 weeks ago.phoned her sorry she's gone home.so we have been

scamned,cheated,lied to and their lack of knowledge and no thought for the welfare of your dog.

so this past 5months our boy has been treated,we have never worried about the cost,after this last lot where he has got no better its time they changed the medication to a more expensive one,plain tablets with no information on,we wanted changed,to branded ones,we haven't got stock of them,they didn't like it when we told them to get em.so that was the last one to get on your bike.now the doxy Pfizer,ursolin,samarin and ferric plus all with all the information you need.

these plain no frills tablets come in bottles that contain thousands,so how do you know what your getting also who's to say they are not out of date,and the ones that you have been charged anything from 10bht.a tablet more or less are 10 bht.a 100.to the vets.will they will they ever learn.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[meatboy]

further to add to the above is blood test results that are carried out,then you get the result with NO TIME the test was done.