Two American women held in Thailand after allegedly caught with fake US dollars

[Makara]

54 minutes ago, smx1313 said:

Ironically, the woman friends where telling people not to involve the press for that very reason. Many people here took that as an admission of guilt, even while knowing that if the story got big things could get worse. The women also asked their friends  to not say anything derogatory about Thailand, it's people or institutions. If they had, please delete it. 

 

Before you go Makara, I addressed you personally on post #853. I hope you get a chance to see it before you go radio silent. 

 

 

I will look, and yes I was aware of that, but I was assuming the media as in news not this type of forum where there's an on-going discussion. If this on-going discussion will bring them more harm, of course I have to leave it. I think people are starting to realize it isn't a "scam" like they thought it was. So either way my work here is done. I hope they don't get a lot of time in prison over there. Not 15 years at least. It is only up to them to plea their defense to the court on what the truth is. 

[Makara]

13 hours ago, smx1313 said:

Makara, 

Personally I tend to favor the women in the story, meaning I'm not on the scam wagon.

I also think that people here going out of their way to torment the friends and family of these women  is ugly behavior. Lets say it is a scam, there is no reason to reach out to people in pain simply to add more pain while hidden safely behind a keyboard. Seems there are a lot of people here who are without sin and get much pleasure from throwing the 1st stone.

 

However, there is one thing that is bugging me.

 

One of the women is a bartender, or works in a bar. I did that kind of work for many years.

Probably the 1st and most important  thing you learn is how to spot fake money. Counterfeiters love crowded hectic bars.  So you become very skilled at it spotting fakes and people trying to pass them. You then alert all the other bartenders, cashiers, security immediately. If you let a fake $100 go by it can get docked from your pay. You are responsible for it.

So that being the case, how could they have been so fooled by "spirit money". In fact, if it was dirty wet and muddy it's actually easier to spot it just by how it feels. A blind person could literally find the fake.

 

See, that part just does not add up. They had the money for several days, countless times to feel it, exam it. And as someone who worked in a bar they are trained to spot fakes.

That does not pass the smell test.

My hunch? Just guessing, they didn't find it. It was sold or given to them by someone in cambodia, maybe saying that it would be easy to exchange in Thailand, nobody gets hurt, that stuff is insured...whatever.

Maybe they assumed the Thais to be simple 3rd world hillbillies.

 

So now they need to be saved, and the go fund me is real, not part of a scam.

 

Just my thoughts. I hope I'm wrong.

That was the first question I had when I heard it was spirit money, and not really good counterfeit money. I get spirit money is fake money--however from my understanding it is super easy to detect when it is spirit money, perhaps I am wrong, but counterfeit may be a different story if it is really good. When I looked at the pic of the spirit money it took me a minute to see the word copy. I have worked around a lot of money before in the past and one time I missed a 20 (usd) that was fake. I deposited in the ATM and it spit it back out. I threw it away, but it was just a tiny bit lighter than our original 20, almost not noticeable, but this situation is a bit different indeed. However it looks as if it was raining or had rained that day, and when inspecting pictures of that day they had posted, there was mud on the ground everywhere--so I personally believe they found them in the mud wet and dirty.

 

I do not know if this intentional to turn in fake money--only they know. I will believe their story until proven otherwise. They're not saying it was intentional. I do wonder if it was just pure stupidity on their end. In the story some things aren't adding up--agreed--but I will put faith that they will in due time. 

[giddyup]

33 minutes ago, Makara said:

 However it looks as if it was raining or had rained that day, and when inspecting pictures of that day they had posted, there was mud on the ground everywhere--so I personally believe they found them in the mud wet and dirty.

 

Every note was so dirty that they couldn't see the word COPY on any of them? And you wouldn't try and clean the money up a bit before taking it to the bank? Give me a break! Of course there is another possibility, the girls muddied the money deliberately in the hope the bank wouldn't recognise it as fake.

Edited March 4, 2018 by giddyup

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Every note was so dirty that they couldn't see the word COPY on any of them? And you wouldn't try and clean the money up a bit before taking it to the bank? Give me a break! Of course there is another possibility, the girls muddied the money deliberately in the hope the bank wouldn't recognise it as fake.

criminal energy at play, these girls are 'pure light' they learned how to do that through meditation,maybe they can get off with some short time with the chief of police.

[meechai]

 

6 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Ironically, the more exposure this story gets, the higher the cost to make it go away.

 

6 hours ago, Makara said:

I really hope that is not true. And incase that is the truth I am not saying another single word. That would be so incredibly corrupt and wrong on so many levels. Talk about morality. I'm done.

Sadly it is 100% True & all the attention this is getting is going to make not just the cost to clear higher but the

punishment as well if not allowed a purchase your way out conclusion.

This is Thailand do not confuse it with any other country

 

 

Sadly it is 100% true

Edited March 4, 2018 by meechai

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, Makara said:

I really hope that is not true. And incase that is the truth I am not saying another single word. That would be so incredibly corrupt and wrong on so many levels. Talk about morality. I'm done.

 

Nice out...

[AGareth2]

2 hours ago, Makara said:

However it looks as if it was raining or had rained that day, and when inspecting pictures of that day they had posted, there was mud on the ground everywhere--so I personally believe they found them in the mud wet and dirty.

 

so they were laundering money!

Edited March 4, 2018 by AGareth2
spelling

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Makara said:

That was the first question I had when I heard it was spirit money, and not really good counterfeit money. I get spirit money is fake money--however from my understanding it is super easy to detect when it is spirit money, perhaps I am wrong, but counterfeit may be a different story if it is really good. When I looked at the pic of the spirit money it took me a minute to see the word copy. I have worked around a lot of money before in the past and one time I missed a 20 (usd) that was fake. I deposited in the ATM and it spit it back out. I threw it away, but it was just a tiny bit lighter than our original 20, almost not noticeable, but this situation is a bit different indeed. However it looks as if it was raining or had rained that day, and when inspecting pictures of that day they had posted, there was mud on the ground everywhere--so I personally believe they found them in the mud wet and dirty.

 

I do not know if this intentional to turn in fake money--only they know. I will believe their story until proven otherwise. They're not saying it was intentional. I do wonder if it was just pure stupidity on their end. In the story some things aren't adding up--agreed--but I will put faith that they will in due time. 

 

From my reading they went to a money changer / money exchange (in another country).

 

Is that the logical place to turn in found money?

 

Another point, they supposedly found the 'money' in the mud, there was so much mud they couldn't read the notes, or see any words indicating 'copy' or words or symbols or spiritual graphics which would raise their suspicions that it wasn't real US currency. 

 

Then without brushing away the dried mud, they took the mud covered (very mud covered) notes to a currency exchange in another country.

 

Who would do that? Would you put mud covered (very mud covered, to the point the notes are 99% unreadable) on the counter of a money exchange?

 

Is it the job of the money exchange owner or staff to clean up very dirty money? No. Most exchanges have a stream of customers, why would they waste their time cleaning up dirty money.

 

Also, from my simple knowledge of this subject money changers need to be very alert about fake notes etc. And in my experience in many countries 99% of money exchange offices will quickly refuse to accept notes that are even slightly damaged, dirty, etc.

 

Further the money exchange have to eventually sell (to international banking authorities) the foreign notes which are in excess of what they might need to operate their exchange business.

 

Would the ultimate banking authorities accept damaged / dirty money from currency exchange operators? No, of course not. 

 

 

 

 

[Makara]

16 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

From my reading they went to a money changer / money exchange (in another country).

 

Is that the logical place to turn in found money?

 

Another point, they supposedly found the 'money' in the mud, there was so much mud they couldn't read the notes, or see any words indicating 'copy' or words or symbols or spiritual graphics which would raise their suspicions that it wasn't real US currency. 

 

Then without brushing away the dried mud, they took the mud covered (very mud covered) notes to a currency exchange in another country.

 

Who would do that? Would you put mud covered (very mud covered, to the point the notes are 99% unreadable) on the counter of a money exchange?

 

Is it the job of the money exchange owner or staff to clean up very dirty money? No. Most exchanges have a stream of customers, why would they waste their time cleaning up dirty money.

 

Also, from my simple knowledge of this subject money changers need to be very alert about fake notes etc. And in my experience in many countries 99% of money exchange offices will quickly refuse to accept notes that are even slightly damaged, dirty, etc.

 

Further the money exchange have to eventually sell (to international banking authorities) the foreign notes which are in excess of what they might need to operate their exchange business.

 

Would the ultimate banking authorities accept damaged / dirty money from currency exchange operators? No, of course not. 

 

 

 

 

I will only address this one last time and then be completley done unless private. This is not about wether they are guilty, how they handled the counterfeit money or anything else pertaining to the crime, this is about if it is a scam or not. It is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme. 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Makara said:

I will only address this one last time and then be completley done unless private. This is not about wether they are guilty, how they handled the counterfeit money or anything else pertaining to the crime, this is about if it is a scam or not. It is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme. 

It's a sad world where you can still profit from a crime you've been caught committing. Hardly a deterrent for any future crimes they may consider. Totally immoral IMO.

[scorecard]

32 minutes ago, Makara said:

I will only address this one last time and then be completley done unless private. This is not about wether they are guilty, how they handled the counterfeit money or anything else pertaining to the crime, this is about if it is a scam or not. It is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme. 

 

"it is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme."

 

Suggest you read your post again several times and consider the several possible 'takes aways' from your words.

 

There your words makara, they indicate your own morals and ethics.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by scorecard

[Justfine]

1 hour ago, Makara said:

I will only address this one last time and then be completley done unless private. This is not about wether they are guilty, how they handled the counterfeit money or anything else pertaining to the crime, this is about if it is a scam or not. It is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme. 

Why should people give money to help if they knew the notes were fake?

 

Should bank robbers set up fundme pages?

 

 

[amykat]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Absolutely no need to do that;

 

There are numerous posts asking questions about the facts re where / how the money was found was it real / was it spirit money and the other circumstances of changing the money etc., etc.

 

Plus dozens of posts asking about whether the police, the US embassy had been involved, were they / weren't they charged, out on bail etc. 

 

 

Scorecard thank you for proving my point. You would do well in court!  I said "there was not ONE clear attack asking for ONE piece of information" and you said the opposite is true and then write this.  Besides that you fail to consider totally that the people in the US are not reading THIS forum but reading FB and their funding sites, which had several different kinds of attacks from people advocating all sorts of positions. One wacko woman from Denver got on their page and into a heated debate convinced that they should come sneak them out now that they are out on bail because the women will somehow get sold it sex slavery!!!  These things have been deleted. 

 

Had your child or wife been arrested for anything would you have the time to get on every website in the world and address every person's personal questions?  Does that sound reasonable?  Have you seen anyone else do it?

 

Lastly, they stated, that they had been arrested, the embassy was involved, stop calling the embassy they cannot give info to strangers and they are being overwhelmed with calls, that they went to court, that they were out on bail. You say you asked and why was it not answered?  That is not true, you denied what they were saying was true.

 

People in the US are not asking for proof, or they have what they want ...why is that? They are all so much dumber than you guys??

 

How do you know they are even IN Thailand, why don't ask to see passport and stamp?  Maybe they are so smart they didn't even want to waste money flying here.  I know, maybe police made up this scam and they aren't even Americans doing it?  That is why there are no media reports from here.  Or the guy who fake died from heart problems up North?  Did anyone see that body??? Why didn't Sanemax go there??

[amykat]

8 hours ago, Waterman1 said:

The Gofundme and Share websites are all smoke and mirrors. While even the Thai Govt. is watching the bank roll in on those sites it's the benefit concert on March 9th money at her bar that will bring in the big bucks. That will all be under the table money. No records. Wink, wink.

 

Yes, and Makara, you should advise your friends to NOT make public how much money was raised for that, until after the women are out of Thailand and then make a full accounting.  People are watching and they will be planning to suck every dime out of you and more .....because they figure there is always more somewhere.

[ChouDoufu]

8 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

....One wacko woman from Denver got on their page and into a heated debate convinced that they should come sneak them out now that they are out on bail because the women will somehow get sold it sex slavery!!! 

 

and one guy on their local newspaper comment section added:

 

" This is where Trump can negotiate their release or send in a small military team if he isn't already thinking of this and getting them out. Americans need to be careful where they vacation around the world..."

[Justfine]

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

and one guy on their local newspaper comment section added:

 

" This is where Trump can negotiate their release or send in a small military team if he isn't already thinking of this and getting them out. Americans need to be careful where they vacation around the world..."

Oh my

[scorecard]

24 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Oh my

 

Some folks live in such a small uninformed, unaware world, how sad.

 

There's also the other side of the coin - I took a team of MBA students to an invited international business case competition in Texas. I didn't need a visa in advance, the students did and the Visas were readily issued by the US embassy in Bkk. 

 

On arrival in the US the students, all of them male and female were spoken to very rudely, in fact the comments to the Thai ladies (all around 20 - 23 YO) were insulting, the hotel not much better with a comment about not taking outside men to their rooms and at check-in to fly home more total rudeness. I asked why the comment, reply was 'I've heard women from Thailand'.

 

One of the male students (perfect English) asked, 'well where is Thailand?'. No answer just quick attempts to change the subject.

 

Maybe we should have requested the Thai military to fly from LOS, rappel in and save us.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by scorecard

[scorecard]

36 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Scorecard thank you for proving my point. You would do well in court!  I said "there was not ONE clear attack asking for ONE piece of information" and you said the opposite is true and then write this.  Besides that you fail to consider totally that the people in the US are not reading THIS forum but reading FB and their funding sites, which had several different kinds of attacks from people advocating all sorts of positions. One wacko woman from Denver got on their page and into a heated debate convinced that they should come sneak them out now that they are out on bail because the women will somehow get sold it sex slavery!!!  These things have been deleted. 

 

Had your child or wife been arrested for anything would you have the time to get on every website in the world and address every person's personal questions?  Does that sound reasonable?  Have you seen anyone else do it?

 

Lastly, they stated, that they had been arrested, the embassy was involved, stop calling the embassy they cannot give info to strangers and they are being overwhelmed with calls, that they went to court, that they were out on bail. You say you asked and why was it not answered?  That is not true, you denied what they were saying was true.

 

People in the US are not asking for proof, or they have what they want ...why is that? They are all so much dumber than you guys??

 

How do you know they are even IN Thailand, why don't ask to see passport and stamp?  Maybe they are so smart they didn't even want to waste money flying here.  I know, maybe police made up this scam and they aren't even Americans doing it?  That is why there are no media reports from here.  Or the guy who fake died from heart problems up North?  Did anyone see that body??? Why didn't Sanemax go there??

 

"People in the US are not asking for proof, or they have what they want ...why is that? They are all so much dumber than you guys??"

 

There are naive and very naive people in every country, and the US no exception.

 

 

[ChouDoufu]

this is genuine ghost money i found on the roadside in

cambodia about 5 years ago.

 

real money on the left (old and new styles).  the word "copy"

does not appear anywhere on the fakes.  one is just a photocopy,

another has "abode of the dead bank" on the reverse.

 

printed on very cheap paper.  feels like toilet paper

made from recycled plywood from the DDR.

 

 

[overherebc]

47 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

this is genuine ghost money i found on the roadside in

cambodia about 5 years ago.

 

real money on the left (old and new styles).  the word "copy"

does not appear anywhere on the fakes.  one is just a photocopy,

another has "abode of the dead bank" on the reverse.

 

printed on very cheap paper.  feels like toilet paper

made from recycled plywood from the DDR.

 

 

Well, if your description of the paper is accurate and I am not doubting it, it does tend to prove they are pretty dumb. If that's what they found and tried to exchange it just seems they thought that everyone outside their own little American world is not as smart as they obviously thought they are. If fact it proves they are dumber.

And here is me thinking red-necks don't come from California.

In the 80's I was on a job in Europe when two guys arrived from the states, they both had suitcases full of medicine and first aid kits, when I asked why they informed me that Europe didn't have hospitals.

[Rhys]

Friends of Danny I suppose

[Makara]

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

From my reading they went to a money changer / money exchange (in another country).

 

Is that the logical place to turn in found money?

 

Another point, they supposedly found the 'money' in the mud, there was so much mud they couldn't read the notes, or see any words indicating 'copy' or words or symbols or spiritual graphics which would raise their suspicions that it wasn't real US currency. 

 

Then without brushing away the dried mud, they took the mud covered (very mud covered) notes to a currency exchange in another country.

 

Who would do that? Would you put mud covered (very mud covered, to the point the notes are 99% unreadable) on the counter of a money exchange?

 

Is it the job of the money exchange owner or staff to clean up very dirty money? No. Most exchanges have a stream of customers, why would they waste their time cleaning up dirty money.

 

Also, from my simple knowledge of this subject money changers need to be very alert about fake notes etc. And in my experience in many countries 99% of money exchange offices will quickly refuse to accept notes that are even slightly damaged, dirty, etc.

 

Further the money exchange have to eventually sell (to international banking authorities) the foreign notes which are in excess of what they might need to operate their exchange business.

 

Would the ultimate banking authorities accept damaged / dirty money from currency exchange operators? No, of course not. 

 

 

 

 

I find it laughable the assumptions. I mean, in my mind, any person would dry the money and wipe it off. Fake or not. Apparently the exchanger did try to except it but was denied due to it being fake and then they called the tourist police. So there's that. Again their case is not what we are originally debating . We are not debating the why, how, what, when of the case...that is their defense for their court. Until then its all assumptions on everyones end. Can you finally say that the gofundme is not a scam? Can you? Or are you just going to say it still is a scam, cause its SO unfair for family and friends to try and raise money for lawyer fees, you know, since there is no court appointed lawyer in Thailand if you don't have the $. Anyhow if all of you can finally say it is not a scam in the US asking for money from poor innocent strangers, then you guys can move on to only making assumptions about their crime. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by Makara

[lannarebirth]

11 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

and one guy on their local newspaper comment section added:

 

" This is where Trump can negotiate their release or send in a small military team if he isn't already thinking of this and getting them out. Americans need to be careful where they vacation around the world..."

 

Fortunately, it will all get blamed on Taiwan.

[Here It Is]

I'm struck by however you look at this story, these two are plain dishonest which also makes it hard to believe anything they say.  Now they want bailing out with hard cash for which they have been very successful.  Reading some of their comments on the YouCaring and GoFundMe sites is excruciating particularly as they're now playing the victims.  Doesn't wash at all.

[Justfine]

5 hours ago, Makara said:

I find it laughable the assumptions. I mean, in my mind, any person would dry the money and wipe it off. Fake or not. Apparently the exchanger did try to except it but was denied due to it being fake and then they called the tourist police. So there's that. Again their case is not what we are originally debating . We are not debating the why, how, what, when of the case...that is their defense for their court. Until then its all assumptions on everyones end. Can you finally say that the gofundme is not a scam? Can you? Or are you just going to say it still is a scam, cause its SO unfair for family and friends to try and raise money for lawyer fees, you know, since there is no court appointed lawyer in Thailand if you don't have the $. Anyhow if all of you can finally say it is not a scam in the US asking for money from poor innocent strangers, then you guys can move on to only making assumptions about their crime. 

Depends how you define scam. Passing off fake diamonds as real is a scam. Passing off fake money as real is a scam.

 

Raising money for scammers to help them out of a jam is therefore a scam.

 

 

[Prince77]

On ‎04‎.‎03‎.‎2018 at 10:45 AM, Makara said:

I will only address this one last time and then be completley done unless private. This is not about wether they are guilty, how they handled the counterfeit money or anything else pertaining to the crime, this is about if it is a scam or not. It is not a scam to collect more money for their own pleasure via gofundme. 

Makara is right - the whole case was driven by ignorance, stupidity and naivity of the two ladies - I do not believe, there was any hardcore criminal intention to get more fake money to make a good living. Yes, they are guilty trying to exchange fake money, they were arrested and most likely informed, that bail will cost around 50 K (baht not USD), that a lawyer may cost 150 K (again Baht, not USD) and that they may face up to 15 years in prison for such a crime. Well, they get in panic and had a chance to inform their families and friends - they mixed up the currencies and their friends took swift action to help them. My conclusion: guilty on crime, panic driven friends to help BUT no scam.

[roo860]

Makara is right - the whole case was driven by ignorance, stupidity and naivity of the two ladies - I do not believe, there was any hardcore criminal intention to get more fake money to make a good living. Yes, they are guilty trying to exchange fake money, they were arrested and most likely informed, that bail will cost around 50 K (baht not USD), that a lawyer may cost 150 K (again Baht, not USD) and that they may face up to 15 years in prison for such a crime. Well, they get in panic and had a chance to inform their families and friends - they mixed up the currencies and their friends took swift action to help them. My conclusion: guilty on crime, panic driven friends to help BUT no scam.

Get your donation cheque posted asap.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Prince77]

14 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

 

Get your donation cheque posted asap.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

well, don't get me wrong. I said guilty in crime BUT no scam, it does not implicate that I will donate money for that, which will not be necessary as they are responsible for what they did. Anyhow, the girls will be home before Songkran (this year) and will have a story to tell to their forthcoming grand children.

[overherebc]

24 minutes ago, Prince77 said:

well, don't get me wrong. I said guilty in crime BUT no scam, it does not implicate that I will donate money for that, which will not be necessary as they are responsible for what they did. Anyhow, the girls will be home before Songkran (this year) and will have a story to tell to their forthcoming grand children.

Will the story mention stupidity, dishonesty and how to make yourself look like a victim so people will give you money you don't deserve because you're stupid and dishonest to start with?

Edited March 5, 2018 by overherebc

[Paul Catton]

Think about the new skills they might learn at the Chiang Mai Women's Correctional Institute as part of their rehabilitation program under Vocational Training.

Traditional Thai massage and preparation of Thai cuisine.

Tourists spend a fair bit of money to sign up and attend courses for similar in the private sector.

Regrettably, I do not hold much sympathy to their plight, they certainly are not juveniles, and could have given significant hardship to perhaps a naive employee of money exchanger if successful in their scam.

I am not a "White Knight" and damsels in distress are usually distressed by lack of responsibility for their own actions.

Would we really have 61 pages of commentary if the genders were reversed and it was a Bill & Ted from any location that is perceived as Western society.