Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[oldlakey]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Honestly, I'm not at all desperate.

As an American, I feel that the UK is a good friend, and when a good friend makes a huge mistake, you hope they can find a way to undo it.

 

Your concern is touching but as you lot say Butt Out

Have a nice day

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

I don't know why this topic reminded me of a conversation I overheard between my mother and sister when I was a young man over her (sisters) new boyfriend . Sheila you must follow your heart but don't leave your brain behind.

Hormones always win over the intellect.

[aright]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

don't argue with a brexiter,for them it's all about taking back the control they never had, 

and don't argue with a Remainer, for them it's all about leaving control in the hands of a federalist Cabal who are unelected and unaccountable to Joe Bloggs.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

don't argue with a brexiter,for them it's all about taking back the control they never had, in America it's Joe the plumber, in the UK it's Joe Bloggs, they both think they matter. I think the German reference is even more pointed, a 08/15 citizen ( a comparison to a file number)

Excellent books by Kirst.

[talahtnut]

53 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Sometimes it's good to have an outside opinion 

"O would some power, the gift tae gi'e us

To see ourselves as others see us"

A greater gift would be not to care what other people think of us.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Excellent books by Kirst.

Dundee's going, Kirst, they print the Beano don't they.

[CG1 Blue]

44 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

If you were a good friend (as an American) you would not interfere in something that you are not emotionally connected to.

If the US was under the control of an outside power, I would not assume I know what it felt like for you. And therefore I would not pass judgement on your decisions around that arrangement.

It's delusional to accuse me of "interfering" by commenting on a web forum.

Delusional is a bit harsh. Ok, maybe I used the wrong word.  Replace 'interfere' with 'opine on' and then respond to my point.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Delusional is a bit harsh. Ok, maybe I used the wrong word.  Replace 'interfere' with 'opine on' and then respond to my point.

I can objectively understand the pros and cons even if not emotionally involved which of course I am not. 

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I can objectively understand the pros and cons even if not emotionally involved which of course I am not. 

 

33 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Your concern is touching but as you lot say Butt Out

Have a nice day

I enjoy his contributions.  I find them well-meaning and thoughtful.

If you don't want others to join in, don't discuss the issue on an open forum.

 

SC

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I can objectively understand the pros and cons even if not emotionally involved which of course I am not. 

A lot of us Brits seem to be emotionally involved with Trump, maybe we should butt out as well.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

A lot of us Brits seem to be emotionally involved with Trump, maybe we should butt out as well.

Let's not kid ourselves. The issues are related. Pro "trump" people are more often pro Brexit and anti "trump" people more often oppose it. 

This is not news or even particularly interesting anymore. 

A high profile British Brexit supporter now has a show on "trump" propaganda network -- Fox News. 

What's he doing "interfering" in American politics, one might ask? 

They are both manifestations of what people like me see as a rise of toxic nationalism. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Jingthing

[Rally123]

On 3/28/2018 at 2:30 PM, aright said:

Its good you are an atheist and not a Muslim.

I was an atheist once but converted to Christianity when I found out the holidays were better.  

Edited March 29, 2018 by Rally123

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A question for the Brexiteers:

 

What set of economic and social circumstances would have to materialise to make you believe that Brexit was the wrong choice? For example and just to get you thinking, but in no way limited to: a 3% drop in GDP for more than 5 years; a 5p increase in the basic rate of tax; an exchange rate of 1GBP=1USD; a drop in the UK credit rating to BBB; privatisation of the NHS as a means to make money, and so on. This is not a trap, I just want to try and understand what the Brexit threshold of pain looks like.

I'm just going to keep this visible for a while to see if anyone is up to answering the question.

All of the above, plus World War III.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

All of the above, plus World War III.

Thank you for your reply, I'll mark you down as, "too difficult to think about". Next.

[oldlakey]

8 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

 

I enjoy his contributions.  I find them well-meaning and thoughtful.

If you don't want others to join in, don't discuss the issue on an open forum.

 

SC

My friend jingthing has censored yours truly but unfortunately has only gagged himself  5555555555

A god send for me after those personal messages 5555555555

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I can objectively understand the pros and cons even if not emotionally involved which of course I am not. 

On a topic like this an objective understanding is only half of the picture.

If this debate was about America being controlled by an outside power, you might object to a Brit arguing the case to remain. Or maybe you wouldn't?

[Khun Han]

35 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Dundee's going, Kirst, they print the Beano don't they.

 

Your post has an air of stalking about it .

[Khun Han]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Let's not kid ourselves. The issues are related. Pro "trump" people are more often pro Brexit and anti "trump" people more often oppose it. 

This is not news or even particularly interesting anymore. 

A high profile British Brexit supporter now has a show on "trump" propaganda network -- Fox News. 

What's he doing "interfering" in American politics, one might ask? 

They are both manifestations of what people like me see as a rise of toxic nationalism. 

 

And people like me see them as a rally against toxic globalism.

[Khun Han]

That's one unapproving reaction, and counting, simoh .

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

On a topic like this an objective understanding is only half of the picture.

If this debate was about America being controlled by an outside power, you might object to a Brit arguing the case to remain. Or maybe you wouldn't?

As a normal working person in the UK how do you feel controlled from Brussels,what devastating effect has it had on your life? oh, refugees and immigrants, it's just a swap from Pakistanis to Bulgarians and Syrians, London was always cosmopolitan anyway.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

That's one unapproving reaction, and counting, simoh .

You seem to have noticed and responded to the insignificant stuff but as predicted, ducked the relevant questions....in case you missed it, here, unless it's too difficult of course:

 

What set of economic and social circumstances would have to materialise to make you believe that Brexit was the wrong choice? For example and just to get you thinking, but in no way limited to: a 3% drop in GDP for more than 5 years; a 5p increase in the basic rate of tax; an exchange rate of 1GBP=1USD; a drop in the UK credit rating to BBB; privatisation of the NHS as a means to make money, and so on. This is not a trap, I just want to try and understand what the Brexit threshold of pain looks like.

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

I was an atheist once but converted to Christianity when I found out the holidays were better.  

The downside is that there are a lot of 'Thou shalt not' though.

[transam]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

All I could think about was the music and the dancing

Trans must have been performing then....?

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

The nearest I got to cherry picking was spud picking

Stealing jobs from the Poles

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Trans must have been performing then....?

Do you do minuets?

[oldlakey]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Stealing jobs from the Poles

Not at all my man the Poles were still subject to somewhat stringent travel restrictions, which left me with a free hand and an aching back

[Khun Han]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You seem to have noticed and responded to the insignificant stuff but as predicted, ducked the relevant questions....in case you missed it, here, unless it's too difficult of course:

 

What set of economic and social circumstances would have to materialise to make you believe that Brexit was the wrong choice? For example and just to get you thinking, but in no way limited to: a 3% drop in GDP for more than 5 years; a 5p increase in the basic rate of tax; an exchange rate of 1GBP=1USD; a drop in the UK credit rating to BBB; privatisation of the NHS as a means to make money, and so on. This is not a trap, I just want to try and understand what the Brexit threshold of pain looks like.

 

An economic growth rate of 1%+ for the next five years is acceptable. Tax will only rise significantly if Corbyn gets in. The exchange rates will remain stable because economic growth will remain steady. Credit rating won't change, for the same reason. NHS is a car crash. It will plod on more-or-less as it is for quite a few more years yet, until it reaches the point where it can no longer be funded adequately. Then somebody will be given the poisoned chalice of radically re-structuring it.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

An economic growth rate of 1%+ for the next five years is acceptable. Tax will only rise significantly if Corbyn gets in. The exchange rates will remain stable because economic growth will remain steady. Credit rating won't change, for the same reason. NHS is a car crash. It will plod on more-or-less as it is for quite a few more years yet, until it reaches the point where it can no longer be funded adequately. Then somebody will be given the poisoned chalice of radically re-structuring it.

You didn't answer my question, all you did was feedback some of the examples I gave you, I asked you what was not acceptable, can you not answer the question?

Edited March 29, 2018 by simoh1490

[CG1 Blue]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why? I think it is a very valid question.

Answering will require some hard and honest thinking, not always easy.

Hard and honest thinking about stuff that is only going to happen in the minds of ardent remainers.

The question was just a poor attempt at laying out remainer fears in a covert way.  It's not much different to George Osborne's demented rantings about an emergency budget etc.

Edited March 29, 2018 by CG1 Blue

[simoh1490]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Terribly sorry, simoh, I responded to your imaginary negative scenarios. No, I'm not playing your game by answering your leading question. Feel free to take your deflated ball home.

It was a simple enough request, what is the Brexit threshold for pain in an economic sense but you can't answer because you don't know and it's too complicated to think about - makes me think of boiling frog syndrome. Never mind.