US soldiers fined for fighting with Thai men who allegedly tried to aggressively sell them watches at Pattaya bar

[bkk6060]

Just now, ThaiFelix said:

And were the Thais charged for selling fakes?

If you care so much why don' t you go to the police station and ask them.

[transam]

Reckon the "Mickey Mouse" logo watch face started it all....

[marinediscoking]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

So, the Americans didnt actually thrown the watches on the floor ?

Is that a fact , or just what you think (didnt) happened ?

I'v watched both video's and didn't see any of them throw anything on the ground. They were 20 meters from a police station if they felt this was the case instead of throwing punches.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Same old same old.

Falngs blamed.

I hope the USA navy, make there guys spend there money else ware.

Pattaya clearly cares not about you.

Authorities of Pattaya you are a disgrace to the good people of Thailand and the tourists that come here.   

Shame on you. 

 

 

 

Same old same old, people not reading.

[tropo]

42 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They must have been rather stupid to think that they were buying real Rolex watches from a street vendor in a bar in Pattaya for 10 $.

  "Hey man, this is a fake" Doh

That's exactly what I was thinking. There's no need to discuss the authenticity of a Rolex watch sold on the street. There's also no need to chastise a seller for something which everyone knows is fake.

[car720]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

That isnt true , you can use reasonable force to defend yourself .

If you use excessive force , then you may get prosecuted

No different in Australia.  If  a guy comes into your house with a knife to kill your family but you kill him first then you will probably end up in jail.  If you only break his legs then he will sue you for millions.  So it is not just Thailand.

[Baerboxer]

11 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

What about the fake watches?   Were they taken away from the Thai vendors?   Or is that a different story for another day.  Maybe they were sold to someone high in the government.

 

If you read the article the senior police officer says he knows nothing about fake watches or what caused the fight. The police just dealt with the brawl itself.

 

Guess watches are a sensitive issue at the moment!

[Air Smiles]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

So what. Plenty of people believe in a non-violent world, and they have every right to take that stance.

 

Sometime the non-violent stance is the effect from previously seeing unbelievable and unnecessary death and massive injuries in a war or similar scenario.  This I know. 

 

 

 

I take it you didn't watch the other video that shows the us soldier sucker punching a Thai hence the reason he was running away?

 

....sure, "Plenty of people believe in a non-violent world" join the US army, rofl!

 

[connda]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Pattaya Vendors Arrested For Brawl With U.S. Soldiers

By Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter

 

Arrested vendors are presented to media Wednesday at Pattaya City Police Station

 

PATTAYA — A group of watch sellers in the resort town of Pattaya were arrested Wednesday for allegedly starting a punching match with American soldiers, in town for a military exercise.

 

The six vendors were charged with selling counterfeit goods. Two of them were charged with assault for the Saturday brawl – footage of which later surfaced on social media and drew outrage. They were fined 5,000 baht for the assault.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2018/03/01/pattaya-vendors-arrested-brawl-u-s-soldiers/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2018-03-01

And the soldiers were fined for defending themselves.  What's wrong with that picture? 

[connda]

4 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Please post a link to said statute:

"'You're not allowed to defend yourself in Thailand if someone assaults you.  If you defend yourself, you're sanctioned."

Open your eyes.  The soldiers who were assaulted and defended themselves were fined, i.e., sanctioned.  Whether there is a statute or not is irrelevant.  Look at what the RTP did, not what is or isn't codified into law.

This is the reality of the situation:
"The Thai men were fined THB5,000 each because they started the fight, while the soldiers had to pay THB1,000 each. All of them were released."

The defenders were fined for defending themselves.

Edited March 1, 2018 by connda

[Tchooptip]

6 hours ago, punchjudy said:

how do you say "I'm going to stuff that watch up your ass" in thai?

Could only answer in PM, only English on this forum

[marinediscoking]

1 hour ago, Air Smiles said:

 

I take it you didn't watch the other video that shows the us soldier sucker punching a Thai hence the reason he was running away?

 

....sure, "Plenty of people believe in a non-violent world" join the US army, rofl!

 

I have watched both videos. It was the Thai in the black shirt that started the fight with a sucker punch to the GI in the White shirt. Then anther thai attacks from behind punching a GI in the back of the head.  

[bubbagoes]

for those of you who may not know this these young men that get to come here for Cobra Gold, not just Americans, but British and Australian also, are under very strict orders not to cause trouble with the locals. Even if its not their fault they will probably suffer the wrath of their commanders, and possibly not be able to come again. For them to have the cause to defend themselves...well they must have been provoked quite a bit.

[SOTIRIOS]

....'for unknown reasons'......

 

...555555555555555555......

 

...know only what you want to know or suits your purpose.....

 

..is that the mentality of a discerning adult.....or a 5-year old .....

[anon4637435435]

Wow, they actually got done however small the punishment for selling stolen stuff. Im amazed. I would be more amazed if it were done prior to the assault.

[Henrik Andersen]

I can't see why they fine the American Thai boxing first so now you can not defending yourself anymore 

[metisdead]

Some offensive posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

Some bickering posts and the replies were removed as well. 

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, connda said:

And the soldiers were fined for defending themselves.  What's wrong with that picture? 

 

It's SOP for the police to fine both parties for fighting. In this case there may be more to it:

 

Police said the head vendor, Uthit Suthok, told investigators the group was hawking timepieces to six American troops on Saturday. The Americans spent some time checking the watches before throwing them on the ground, police said at a Wednesday news conference.

 

I dunno if that's true or not. But normally vendors don't get that upset when given the usual brush off. I give them a polite refusal in Thai and have never had any problem, so I can't relate to this incident. Maybe this vendor was just a nutcase--he well could be. Having that job would certainly make me crazy after a week. Maybe he was far too aggressive in the first place and it escalated from there. Or maybe the American was arrogant and hot-tempered.

 

We need video of the interaction just before this incident to be sure of exactly what happened. We may hope this group of vendors have learned a lesson from the experience at least.

Edited March 1, 2018 by JSixpack

[IAMHERE]

"“From the CCTV, the Thais started the fight first, so we charged all eight of them [six foreigners and two Thais] for the brawl. ""

Thai logic at its best. Thai's start the fight, so charge the Falang Victims too.  Falang do not have a right to defend themselves in Thailand, pretty much says it all. 

[IAMHERE]

8 hours ago, transam said:

So the USA guys got fined for protecting themselves....Hmmmm..

 

Probably so the locals selling "dodgy gear" don't lose face..

I'd think the USA guys got fined for doing what the police were incapable of doing; along the lines of working without a permit, doing a Thai's job, not running away, that sort of thing.

[Henrik Andersen]

45 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

Police said the head vendor, Uthit Suthok, told investigators the group was hawking timepieces to six American troops on Saturday. The Americans spent some time checking the watches before throwing them on the ground, police said at a Wednesday news conference.

 

Police said he not see any watches and now when he here this why he not arrest this vendor gang they have make so many problems before and it is illegal to sell this watches but he knows them very well because he see and talk with them every day 

[IAMHERE]

3 hours ago, connda said:

And the soldiers were fined for defending themselves.  What's wrong with that picture? 

I think perhaps the BIB have found a new way of raising funds. Any Falang defending themselves is gonna be walloped later with a fine. 

[Seismic]

Do the police hand out those facemasks on request or do you have to make sure you bring your own ??

 

[ronaldo0]

A certain high ranking person might be interested in them watches !! Maybe that's where all his others came from !

[jacko45k]

On 2/28/2018 at 4:18 PM, keith101 said:

We have all had our share of problems with these guys selling fake watches , the best way i found was just say no thanks and just look away and ignore them . If one got a bit nasty all i had to do was stand up at 188cm tall and weighing 110 kgs  they would always walk away . 

The first 4-5 times that works, but it becomes tiresome beyond that, and some lay their hands on you pulling at your arm. It is an ill-mannered intrusion.  The standing up could be regarded as a threat of violence and exacerbate the problem. I doubt the US military are frail small guys too!

I used to use a shop house type beer bar where the owner refused to let the hawkers on the premises unless a customer waved them in to 'shop', they were told to stay out on the pavement. He said they stole things and caused aggravation, and that was decades ago... little improvement over the years!

[steven100]

22 hours ago, impulse said:

 

While I agree with that assessment, their job isn't really complete until they confiscate the illegal wares.  Otherwise, it's just a cost of doing an illegal business.

 

Thailand's either a member of the world community that honors its treaty obligations- including protection of IP, or it's not.  

 

I disagree with your protection of IP.  Multinational corporations ripping of anyone it can sell too ... greedy pigs imo.

They employ the cheapest labour possible in places like India, Bangladesh and other countries. 

And to me a copy is fine ....  

A watch seller in Bangkok sells his copy watches to make money to feed his family. If he has a stall maybe he employs one other guy who feeds his family.

A street sweeper or a middle class worker is never going to buy or can never afford a real Rolex, Guicci or Adidas ....   he can afford a copy.

So what the Multinational company missing out on ?   not profits ....   as the small guy will never buy the original ...   yet he buys a cheaper one and feeds his family.

 

 

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

I disagree with your protection of IP.  Multinational corporations ripping of anyone it can sell too ... greedy pigs imo.

They employ the cheapest labour possible in places like India, Bangladesh and other countries. 

And to me a copy is fine ....  

A watch seller in Bangkok sells his copy watches to make money to feed his family. If he has a stall maybe he employs one other guy who feeds his family.

A street sweeper or a middle class worker is never going to buy or can never afford a real Rolex, Guicci or Adidas ....   he can afford a copy.

So what the Multinational company missing out on ?   not profits ....   as the small guy will never buy the original ...   yet he buys a cheaper one and feeds his family.

 

 

Agree with you here, Steven. Everyone knows they're fakes [even Lady Gaga].  Stealing other people's design and intellectual copyright may be legally and morally wrong but it puts food on the table for the seller here in Thailand. In a perfect world, black and white may be easily defined, but we are not perfect, we are human. Somewhere along the line we have to balance righteousness with compassion.

And is there anyone here who hasn't bought a DVD at their local market or isn't using torrents?

[impulse]

38 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Agree with you here, Steven. Everyone knows they're fakes [even Lady Gaga].  Stealing other people's design and intellectual copyright may be legally and morally wrong but it puts food on the table for the seller here in Thailand. In a perfect world, black and white may be easily defined, but we are not perfect, we are human. Somewhere along the line we have to balance righteousness with compassion.

And is there anyone here who hasn't bought a DVD at their local market or isn't using torrents?

 

That's one side of it. 

 

The other side is how much investment and how many good jobs don't come to Thailand because companies know their IP rights won't be protected.  (If IP rights mean so little, why would anyone expect to get protections on any investment they make?)   And how much leverage Thai trade negotiators lose on behalf of the Thai people when they have no credibility because any treaty they sign isn't worth the paper it's printed on.  Because a nation that openly shirks one agreement can't be counted on to honor any agreements.  Look at the consequences of fishing and human trafficking violations, and what those are costing the majority -in favor of a small minority benefiting from shirking them.

 

And that's costing the honest Thai people a lot more than the dishonest ones are making on the sale of pirated DVD's and crappy watches and human trafficking and rampant fishing.   I'm not crusading on the morality of IP protections, because I'm just as guilty as most.   But on the practical consequences of being an unreliable ally- in trade, in human rights, and in politics.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by impulse

[jerry921]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

That's one side of it. 

 

The other side is how much investment and how many good jobs don't come to Thailand because companies know their IP rights won't be protected.  (If IP rights mean so little, why would anyone expect to get protections on any investment they make?)   And how much leverage Thai trade negotiators lose on behalf of the Thai people when they have no credibility because any treaty they sign isn't worth the paper it's printed on.  Because a nation that openly shirks one agreement can't be counted on to honor any agreements.  Look at the consequences of fishing and human trafficking violations, and what those are costing the majority -in favor of a small minority benefiting from shirking them.

 

And that's costing the honest Thai people a lot more than the dishonest ones are making on the sale of pirated DVD's and crappy watches and human trafficking and rampant fishing.   I'm not crusading on the morality of IP protections, because I'm just as guilty as most.   But on the practical consequences of being an unreliable ally- in trade, in human rights, and in politics.

 

I agree with protecting IP, so I'm on your side in this argument. But I think you have the right conclusion for the wrong reason. The lack of protection is not why many good jobs don't come to Thailand. First of all, that concern hasn't stopped jobs from going to China. Lot's and lots of software jobs. Those jobs had no chance of coming to Thailand, because Thailand trains few good programmers, not because of IP protections, or lack thereof. Lots of hard drives are manufactured in Thailand, because Thailand has what those factories need (all except for good drainage).

[impulse]

29 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

I agree with protecting IP, so I'm on your side in this argument. But I think you have the right conclusion for the wrong reason. The lack of protection is not why many good jobs don't come to Thailand. First of all, that concern hasn't stopped jobs from going to China. Lot's and lots of software jobs. Those jobs had no chance of coming to Thailand, because Thailand trains few good programmers, not because of IP protections, or lack thereof. Lots of hard drives are manufactured in Thailand, because Thailand has what those factories need (all except for good drainage).

 

Lots of jobs have gone to China, but nowhere near the number that would have gone there if the companies could count on protections.  And more companies are pulling out now and going to lower wage countries and even back home because the companies re-calculated the risk/benefit numbers.  It's a balance between the risks and the rock bottom wages.  Reduce the risks and the wages can go up and still attract investment.  Or not...