You're deemed a resident of Thailand if you stay 180 days

[gk10002000]

27 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Legally a resident of Thailand?

 

So the people spending all that time applying for permanent residence are wasting tier time.. they are already have it lol.

 

 

ha.  well, they have the paying part of it, but none of the other benefits, whatever those may be

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

Legally a resident of Thailand?

 

So the people spending all that time applying for permanent residence are wasting tier time.. they are already have it lol.

 

 

There's a big difference between being resident and being resident for tax purposes.

[scubascuba3]

 
 Sooner or later, Thailand's going to get serious and then I wonder how far back they'll go when they send out the tax bills?
 

Its a case of priorities, they need to work on Thais paying the right tax first

[impulse]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Its a case of priorities, they need to work on Thais paying the right tax first

 

 

Low hanging fruit is the expression that comes to my mind.  And our fruit hangs a lot lower than the locals'.

[dabhand]

3 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

In the mid 80s I had to pay 7% tax on the money I told the tax authorities that I spend while in Thailand if I had stayed more than 180 days, so did all my friends in Phuket, most of us told the lady at the tax office that we stayed with a rich Thai girlfriend who paid for everything. 

I posted this on an earlier thread related to tax clearance certificates:

 

Indeed, I recall being in Thailand for an extended period in 1990 and I was advised to obtain a tax clearance certificate prior to departing, despite not undertaking any work activity in Thailand. Can't recall the cost, but it was obtained, on my behalf, by a travel agent, So, no doubt, there was a healthy fee element included. No TVF to consult at that time!!

I believe this requirement lapsed in May 1991, as indicated in this tax website:

 http://www.rd.go.th/publish/23518.0.html

In addition the Revenue Department issued the Notification of the Director-General of the Revenue Department on 7 May 1991 stipulating that foreigners departing Thailand do not have to apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate except for the above three cases in 2.

 

Should this be re-introduced there would be a huge number of expats reduced to 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. Well, for those that still have teeth to gnash!!

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

41 minutes ago, dabhand said:

I posted this on an earlier thread related to tax clearance certificates:

 

Indeed, I recall being in Thailand for an extended period in 1990 and I was advised to obtain a tax clearance certificate prior to departing, despite not undertaking any work activity in Thailand. Can't recall the cost, but it was obtained, on my behalf, by a travel agent, So, no doubt, there was a healthy fee element included. No TVF to consult at that time!!

I believe this requirement lapsed in May 1991, as indicated in this tax website:

 http://www.rd.go.th/publish/23518.0.html

In addition the Revenue Department issued the Notification of the Director-General of the Revenue Department on 7 May 1991 stipulating that foreigners departing Thailand do not have to apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate except for the above three cases in 2.

 

Should this be re-introduced there would be a huge number of expats reduced to 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. Well, for those that still have teeth to gnash!!

You could not leave Thailand if you didn't got the Tax certificate. If this is coming back I think many will relocate to neighboring countries.

[Thungrat]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

so you stay 179 days ..  and go out and back in.

180 days or more in any tax year !

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

There's a big difference between being resident and being resident for tax purposes.

Yes, if you're here on an extension of stay, the application very pointedly refers to an extension of 'temporary stay"  which seems to imply you have no legally defined status as a resident in any context other than for tax purposes. And even then, "assessable income" has a restricted definition.

 

 

 

And the wording from Siam Legal seems to suggest that income must be derived from sources "within the country."

 

Quote

 

Personal Income Tax in Thailand is levied on every individual, resident or non-resident, who derives assessable income from employment or business in Thailand, or has assets located in Thailand, whether such income is paid in or outside of Thailand.

 

An individual who lives in Thailand for more than the period or periods totaling at least 180 days in any tax (calendar) year is deemed to be a resident of Thailand. He is subject to tax on all assessable income derived from sources within the country, whether paid within or outside Thailand.

 

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Suradit69

[HooHaa]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

so you stay 179 days ..  and go out and back in.

reading is tricky

 

Quote

Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand.

 

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Low hanging fruit is the expression that comes to my mind.  And our fruit hangs a lot lower than the locals'.

Taxing expats would make Thailand a very unpopular destination for retirees and would probably send a fair number of those already here out looking for greener pastures.

 

What little they would generate from income taxes on retirees (along with the chaos that would result from trying to assess foreign based income) would not make up for the disruption to the economy.

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, if you're here on an extension of stay, the application very pointedly refers to an extension of 'temporary stay"  which seems to imply you have no legally defined status as a resident in any context other than for tax purposes. And even then, "assessable income" has a restricted definition.

 

 

 

And the wording from Siam Legal seems to suggest that income must be derived from sources "within the country."

 

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

 

 

 

 

That definition is out of date. BOT relaxed foreign currency restrictions for Thai nationals to where they can now invest in foreign currency/investments overseas, it becomes taxable when it is repatriated hence the source is not solely within Thailand.

[Familyonthemove]

16 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, if you're here on an extension of stay, the application very pointedly refers to an extension of 'temporary stay"  which seems to imply you have no legally defined status as a resident in any context other than for tax purposes. And even then, "assessable income" has a restricted definition.

 

 

 

And the wording from Siam Legal seems to suggest that income must be derived from sources "within the country."

 

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I thought the income had to be related to business un Thailand.  Revenue from overseas business is not taxable in Thailand, but it may need to stay overseas?

[simoh1490]

No, the source does not have to be related to a business in Thailand, it just has to be income. As you say however, leaving it overseas avoids any liability.

[Jip99]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Why? The requirement to have 400k or 800k is a visa consideration but surely not a tax consideration.

 

 

I am not sure I made my point clear......

 

Nothing to do with money in the bank.

 

If there is a 180 day rule then that rule will not apply to those leaving every 90 days ergo, a Non-Imm O from Savannakhet could be preferable to having an ext3nsion.

[RandG]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

so you stay 179 days ..  and go out and back in.

Aggregating; i.e. Totalling 180 days or more. Leaving the country at 179 and returning had no relevance.

[Suradit69]

25 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

That definition is out of date. BOT relaxed foreign currency restrictions for Thai nationals to where they can now invest in foreign currency/investments overseas, it becomes taxable when it is repatriated hence the source is not solely within Thailand.

It becomes taxable if remitted during the same calendar year as earned. Easily circumvents tax liability for most non-Thais and probably Thais as well.

 

Anything to do with retirement savings would have been received in years prior to when it is received and the current income from such investments in definitely fungible when it comes to the mix of old money and new.

 

Quote

 

Any capital gain or investment income from sources outside Thailand is not subject to taxation unless a resident taxpayer remitted the process into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received.

 

Interest, dividend, and rental income derived from sources outside Thailand by resident of Thailand are taxable in Thailand to the extent such income is paid or remitted into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received. Non-resident is not subject to Thai tax on such income from foreign-sourced, in any case.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Suradit69

[Mattd]

11 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I am not sure I made my point clear......

 

Nothing to do with money in the bank.

 

If there is a 180 day rule then that rule will not apply to those leaving every 90 days ergo, a Non-Imm O from Savannakhet could be preferable to having an ext3nsion.

Please can you explain your logic as to why the 180 day rule would not apply in the cases of non o visa holders?

The tax residency is very clear, stay in Thailand for an aggregate time of 180 days in one calendar year (as is the Thai tax year) then you are considered tax resident, end of!

However, it has been like this for decades, so not sure why people worry so much.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

It becomes taxable if remitted during the same calendar year as earned. Easily circumvents tax liability for most non-Thais and probably Thais as well.

 

 

As per post number 3!

[Mattd]

For those interested, here is the way to calculate Thai personal income tax for those below 60.

 

Allowances:

Personal - 60,000 THB

Thai Spouse (if not working) - 60,000 THB

Per Child - 30,000 THB

Health Insurance (Thai Company) - 15,000 max.

Expense, 50% of total income or max. 100,000 THB

The first 150,000 THB of income after all allowances and expenses are deducted is tax free, then it is based on a scale-able % depending on income.

 

So far the Thai revenue department has not made an issue of foreigners being tax resident here and who are not employed in Thailand, theoretically if somebody earns over the income threshold, then they are required to submit a tax return, personally I've never heard of any foreigner doing or being forced / asked to submit one outside of those employed here.

 

Attached gives a bit more info.

 

 

englishnews11_2560.pdf

[Dap]

8 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

an interesting situation, but how would they know the retirement passive money I bring into thailand came from the current year?

Could be a matter of semantics, as I earned my retirement (Social Security) many years ago :)

Edited March 2, 2018 by Dap

[TonyClifton]

That is a shocker.  I'm perplexed.  I'm here on an OA visa.  Which I extended to a 2-year stay by going in and out on the Visa 1 week before it expired.

 

I'm 100 percent sure, that I am not allowed to work in Thailand.  I don't work in Thailand.  I have been here more than 450 days now, and I doubt I owed tax on anything other than the VAT that gets stolen from me whenever I buy something.

 

Please explain.

[henry15]

I'm an belgian citizen, and they  an agreement with Thailand to avoid  double taxation. So my pension is taxed in belgium. Just like all other  earnings in belgium. My Thai income are taxed in Thailand.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, if you're here on an extension of stay, the application very pointedly refers to an extension of 'temporary stay"  which seems to imply you have no legally defined status as a resident in any context other than for tax purposes. And even then, "assessable income" has a restricted definition.

 

 

 

And the wording from Siam Legal seems to suggest that income must be derived from sources "within the country."

 

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

 

 

 

 

I think that should settle the issue for the Nervous Nellies on a government pension - thanks.

 

[yardrunner]

7 hours ago, overherebc said:

If your pensions from UK are over the tax limit you pay tax in UK so by agreement it's not taxed here.

Unfortunately not true, their is a taxation agreement between Thailand and the UK but their is no mention of pensions in the agreement and pension payments  could be taxable if sent direct to Thailand. this was from the Thai tax office legal department in Udon Thani.

the only pensions that their is an agreement about is government pensions IE if you have served in the armed forces or been a civil servant any pension is only taxable in the country it is paid, according to   the Thai legal department the UK state pension is covered by this agreement but the UK inland revenue department said the state pension was not a goverment pension and not governed by the agreement

[Acemaker]

7 hours ago, R123 said:

This issue has been active for decades. The reality and practicality is that the tax collecting authorities in Thailand do not go after the likes of those such as retirees and there is no need to sweat.

OP is scare-mongering.

Of course if some idiot wants to go to his or her local tax office and demand to know why he or she ain't being asked to pay tax, that's a different matter....

And lets face it there are plenty of half-wits living long time in Thailand

I had a feeling initially that this whole subject was total <deleted> , thank you for confirming that.

[SpokaneAl]

This seems like a non issue for US citizens who already declare income and pay necessary income taxes each year to the federal government.

 

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/taxleeds.html 

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, steven100 said:

so you stay 179 days ..  and go out and back in.

Yes, that's right Stephen, a resident, but not permanent residency.

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Agree with all that but meant expats only have their pension/s and have them paid directly to their Thai bank account. They are very easy to identify.

 

The 180 day rule starts to make Non-Imm O visa from Savannakhet preferable to an extension based on marriage.

Yes. if you don't mind jaunts to the border every 90 days.

[murraynz]

my pension from nz , is transferred direct to my bkk bank account---"non- taxed". was told by nz authorities that thailand may tax me ???

i pay taxes in nz for other passive income that i earn in nz...

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, R123 said:

This issue has been active for decades. The reality and practicality is that the tax collecting authorities in Thailand do not go after the likes of those such as retirees and there is no need to sweat.

OP is scare-mongering.

Of course if some idiot wants to go to his or her local tax office and demand to know why he or she ain't being asked to pay tax, that's a different matter....

And lets face it there are plenty of half-wits living long time in Thailand

"there are plenty of half-wits living long time in Thailand".

Yes, the old, fat shirtless ones showing off their big titties.