Humans first - soi dogs second! Thais now advocating "the final solution"

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[BimBoon]

Let's get a few truths before people start calling for a cull. Firstly the only way to determine a dog has rabies is from brain tissue. This problem has been created by people and there deep superstition that if you spay a dog it affects your ability to have children. By feeding the street dogs, which I do, prevents them from scavenging in bins. How about the government have a mass spay and neuter and vaccination program. Once you have done around 80% the population decreases taking into parvo and other desiese that kill dogs naturaly. How about living by by your Buddhist belief and have compassion because a cull of dogs will have little effect on the spread because rats and other creatures also carry the desiese. To add to this my vet gave free Rabies vaccinations last year. This year the government.    won't fund it in this area. This is not how a fundamental Buddhist nation should behave particularly of problem that was created by humans in the first place. 

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, Xaos said:

 

Rabies may be sensational, but it is by no means the only reason that Thailand needs to address its dog problem. If you see that as the sole issue, you have a distorted image of what is happening.

[Airbagwill]

8 minutes ago, BimBoon said:

Let's get a few truths before people start calling for a cull. Firstly the only way to determine a dog has rabies is from brain tissue. This problem has been created by people and there deep superstition that if you spay a dog it affects your ability to have children. By feeding the street dogs, which I do, prevents them from scavenging in bins. How about the government have a mass spay and neuter and vaccination program. Once you have done around 80% the population decreases taking into parvo and other desiese that kill dogs naturaly. How about living by by your Buddhist belief and have compassion because a cull of dogs will have little effect on the spread because rats and other creatures also carry the desiese. To add to this my vet gave free Rabies vaccinations last year. This year the government.    won't fund it in this area. This is not how a fundamental Buddhist nation should behave particularly of problem that was created by humans in the first place. 

Sorry but that is totally wrong you are kidding yourself. Dogs are genetically imprinted to scavenge, no matter how much you feed them they will instinctively search for food.

Furthermore it doesn't stop dogs breeding and interacting and transmitting all sorts of diseases whether to each other or zootic.

 

In Bangkok you are talking about neutering 80% of 300,000 the logistics alone make it impossible. ...and remember they all have to be done within a short period of time and put back in their packs.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Troebal said:

There are many people in Thailand trying to improve the situation in a humane way. We have built a shelter which houses 100 dogs from the street, mostly out of our own pocket. We have had over 200 sterilization surgeries performed on strays in the past 18 months and many hundreds of vaccinations.We would happily do far more but receive essentially no support from the local population or the government. We are therefore limited to doing only what we can afford. Everyone wants the problem solved but expect someone else to take care of it. Simply doesn't work that way.

Exterminate the dogs and spend the money wasted on the dogs to improve the health of the hundreds of under-priveleged kids in thailand. 

Priorities need attending to.

[tore stenberg]

just talking nothing will happen as always, they are lobe to speak in thailand, but what happens nothing

[Artisi]

If you can catch the dogs for neuturing , save the hassle and exterminate them there and then, quicker, easier, and one less mangie dog on the the streets .

[hugh2121]

Better to cull the morons who turned the dogs out in the first place.

 

[The Deerhunter]

9 hours ago, harada said:

I think I'll be avoiding burger joints for a while. 

And the cheaper Chinese and Vietnamese restaurants.

[Airbagwill]

40 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

    

 

But seriously, the dogs are the victims here. People/owners are responsible for not taking care of the animals they acquire. And now it's going to be the dogs that suffer, perhaps, for human neglect.

 

Neither your photo or your comment offer a solution to the problem. and yes! the humans have allowed the dog population to grow out of control and the result will be loads of suffering dogs. The most humane way to deal with it is to sever the food chain i.e. garbage and misguided charitable humans who only prolong the problem by feeding them.

[Airbagwill]

11 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

Better to cull the morons who turned the dogs out in the first place.

 

Most of the dogs weren't "turned out" they breed on the streets.......

[Airbagwill]

20 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Exterminate the dogs and spend the money wasted on the dogs to improve the health of the hundreds of under-priveleged kids in thailand. 

Priorities need attending to.

"We have built a shelter which houses 100 dogs from the street, mostly out of our own pocket. We have had over 200 sterilization surgeries performed on strays in the past 18 months "

 

clear evidence that these programs don't work - there are 300,000 dogs in BKK alone and in 18 months they've done how many?? - and I bet you didn't return them to their packs either. If that is the case you've actually made the situation worse.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Airbagwill

[hugh2121]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Most of the dogs weren't "turned out" they breed on the streets.......

Most of the dogs weren't "turned out" they breed on the streets after being turned out.

[newnative]

About fricking time.

[Top Chef]

Should become a nationwide priority...!!!

[peterb17]

3 hours ago, zzidenn said:

yes ! dogs are a creation of humans, since there are no natural dogs anywhwre in the wild but wolves. every dog is our responsibility! its not merit to feed a stray dog, taking it in and giving it a home does the trick. 

 

Gosh someone after my own heart .

 

I repeat a post on another thread - dogs have been human companions for around 40000 years.

We have genetically engineered all the dogs you see around everyday- from tiny ones to huge dogs - selective breeding. We have caused the problem. 

 

We never  call for culling humans ? Why not? Just another species - nothing special- few billion around the planet. 

 

The way to go is vaccination or making a real effort to reduce the population.

 

Not killing/ culling them. 

[oldlakey]

8 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

I do see some sense in removing strays that are obviously sick and thus pose a danger to humans or which are aggressive and attack passers-by,.

 

Nevertheless, I have always greatly disliked the word "to cull" in this context, because to me it seems like a cowardly expression that is not accurately describing what is actually happening. We KILL those strays, don't we? So why do people shy away from using that word? Is it too uncomfortable? Does it trigger their conscience? Does it make them too aware that something bad is inflicted on these creatures?

 

When Thailand was afflicted by the avian flu outbreak almost two decades ago, I vividly recall media reports how hundreds of thousands of chickens were "culled". On occasion the reports were of course illustrated by all to graphical pictures that clearly showed us what that "culling" really involved: burying these hundreds of thousands of fowl ALIVE in huge pits. In my opinion that was not "culling" but pure cruel savagery as there surely would have been several options for killing these condemned animals more mercifully and humanely.

 

Yes, by all means, let's remove dangerous or infected soi dogs from our streets. But let's be clear about it that they are being killed, not "culled". And if we kill them, it should be done in a manner that causes the animals as little suffering as possible. After all, the point is not to punish the animals for merely living. It's not their fault that they got infected with rabies. It's not their fault that they were abandoned by their irresponsible former human owners and turned into aggressive beasts fending for themselves on the streets. It's not their fault that they were born as dogs.          

Call it what you like as long as the result ends with a safer environment for all

[oldlakey]

8 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

Thanks for the clarification. I dislike the word even more now for its obnoxious definition.

I dislike rabies even more

[dallen52]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Unless you are on a small island, a cull won't work. You will have to continue killing forever to keep the population down

One female dog and her babies can have over 67,000 puppies in a six-year time frame! That's because a dog can have three litters a year with up to seven puppies per litter.

 

If you kill a dog the gap left will be filled within days with dogs from outside the area.

 

To reduce the dog population to a manageable size you have to deal with the food supply i.e. garbage and garbage disposal and ask people not to feed them.

Limiting the food limits the population that can be supported.

 

PS - please can someone suggest how Bangkok could cope with 300,000 dog carcasses?

 

 

Same they do with much rubbish. 

Throw it in the rivers and canals. 

[owl sees all]

We run a home for cats. Big worry! First step is to keep cats and humans healthy. Might not be possible. Get rid of the cats and the rat poulation could explode' then more snakes.

Edited March 15, 2018 by owl sees all

[phuketsub]

9 hours ago, harada said:

I think I'll be avoiding burger joints for a while. 

Hilarious!

 

[dallen52]

50 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Exterminate the dogs and spend the money wasted on the dogs to improve the health of the hundreds of under-priveleged kids in thailand. 

Priorities need attending to.

The dogs are a scourge on Thailand. 

Many tourists shy away from the dogs. 

Humping away and fighting. 

 

Strange that you have to register for a darts board, but you can have multiple dogs, until you are fed up with them, and let them wander free. 

Unlicensed. 

 

Facing me in my soi. 

Three houses, eleven dogs. Three fighting roosters. 

Add the half a dozen walking or roaming freely. All night. 

 

And this is near Siam County club. 

 

Do they have bylaws officers? 

 

Or not enough tea money in this. 

[HLover]

There are worse scourge- Sukumvit Soi 11 for example.

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Same they do with much rubbish. 

Throw it in the rivers and canals. 

To Airbagwill.

I really don't think the 300,000 dead dogs would appear over a 2 or 3 day period.

Even if a lot were, let's use destroyed, I don't think fish can contract rabies so dump well out to sea, better than plastic, at least we get bigger better fed fish.

[oldlakey]

5 hours ago, AlphMichaels said:

This is every bit as much a people problem.   Systemic at the core.  Now something must be done but blaming the dogs is BS. 

 

I loathe how most treat dogs here.  

I suppose at a push the cull could be extended to irresponsible owners 

[phuketsub]

I live next to the biggest temple in the district and need to pass by several tens of stray dogs and cats just to make a beer run to the shop at the end of the soi. We run a school on the most badly infested soi and several parents have been terrorized by territorial mutts, whose 'owners' don't do anything about them.

 

My daughter got bitten just last week and we had to take her in for vaccinations.

 

At the hospital were four other people, all bitten by the same aggressive puppy, who owners named him M100. He was disappeared the same day, but there are still plenty of other aggressive, disease-covered mutts in the area. I am all for a cull.

 

Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned is that all these street dogs are a major contributor to the road dangers here, which are now rated the most dangerous in the world.

 

 

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

To Airbagwill.

I really don't think the 300,000 dead dogs would appear over a 2 or 3 day period.

Even if a lot were, let's use destroyed, I don't think fish can contract rabies so dump well out to sea, better than plastic, at least we get bigger better fed fish.

This has to be thought out. If a flesh-eating fish - piranna or the like - was first put into the BKK canal system then dumping the dogs in at the same time every day (so the fish know when it's feeding time) would not be to bad. And of course the fish, as you say, will grow and provide food.

[macca3248]

It needs to be remembered  that dogs, cats , rats and monkeys are also carriers of  the rabies virus !

 

[HLover]

5 minutes ago, macca3248 said:

It needs to be remembered  that dogs, cats , rats and monkeys are also carriers of  the rabies virus !

 

And certain Songtaow drivers.

[jvs]

Seems to me two things are being mixed up here,the dogs carrying rabies and the ever growing population of stray dogs.

Try this one,lets say a soi dog lives for ten years.Probably not but just for argument sake.

You could try in a certain area to feed the dogs and lace their food with a product that will prevent (the pill)the bitches from becoming pregnant.Ten procent per year will die of from natural causes,the next year less food will do the trick and so on.

No need to kill,cull or put dogs to sleep (whatever you want to call it).

In less then five years the problem will be much smaller and this could be a solution everyone can live with?