Is a townhouse considered a condo?

[Don Chance]

I understand farangs can own a condo in Thailand but what about townhouse's (a building attached on one or two sides?)

[Fish Head Soup]

No.

[Delight]

 Foreigners cannot own land

 

 

[KittenKong]

In Pattaya there are some older "condos" that are low-rise and look like townhouses to me. They are part of larger high-rise condo developments. As far as I know farangs can buy them and will get a chanote in their name. I'm not sure why those can be considered to be condos when other similar buildings cannot.

In fact it isnt clear to me why all houses, including detached ones, cant be sold as condominiums, as long as the collective owns all the land and retains title to it. To me this would seem to be the perfect solution to the perennial problems of company-name house ownership and decaying villages with no owners' association (and no way of enforcing the collection of fees). Of course it would mean a lot less money being paid to lawyers and accountants to set up and maintain dodgy Thai companies, and there would be a lot less scope for those lawyers, and others, to steal such property bought by unsuspecting farangs. But all the land would stay Thai, which seems to be what Thais are most worried about.

[Fish Head Soup]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

As far as I know farangs can buy them and will get a chanote in their name.

How can a chanote title be issued to someone on leased land?

Edited April 24, 2018 by Fish Head Soup

[KittenKong]

How can a chanote title be issued to someone on leased land?

In a condominium the cooperative owns the land and the co-owners each own a share of the cooperative, as well as owning their individual unit which has a chanote but no land. There are no leases.

[DavidB4]

I know some guys who bought their townhouses in the same development and they explained to me it was because there is also a highrise condo building as part of the complex, so I guess you are not buying any land.

[gaff]

3 hours ago, DavidB4 said:

I know some guys who bought their townhouses in the same development and they explained to me it was because there is also a highrise condo building as part of the complex, so I guess you are not buying any land.

 

Interesting ,is it in BKK or Pattaya ?

 

 

[Fish Head Soup]

14 hours ago, KittenKong said:

In a condominium the cooperative owns the land and the co-owners each own a share of the cooperative, as well as owning their individual unit which has a chanote but no land. There are no leases.

A channote is a full land title. How can you be issued a full land title without land? I understand you would get a certificate stating you owned a fractional share but I don't believe you would receive a channote title from the Land Registry Department. There are plenty of leasehold condominium buildings in Thailand by-the-way.

 

10 hours ago, DavidB4 said:

I know some guys who bought their townhouses in the same development and they explained to me it was because there is also a highrise condo building as part of the complex, so I guess you are not buying any land.

I thought they were referred to as Villa Condominiums in Thailand? They must obtain a condominium license and the legality of this type of condominium under the Condominium Act is controversial and licensing is usually refused. Maybe they will find in the future that they don't actually own what they thought they did.

[Delight]

42 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

A channote is a full land title. How can you be issued a full land title without land? I understand you would get a certificate stating you owned a fractional share but I don't believe you would receive a channote title from the Land Registry Department.

That which is issued from the L.O. in relation to a condominium  apartment is not a chanote.A chanote  can only refer to land.

The owner receives a Condominium Title Deed.

A 2nd paper is also issued. It for certain details the  appraised value of the condo .

It may also detail other things -such as the owners share of the land.

May be others have more detail on this.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Delight
Spelling

[Fish Head Soup]

1 hour ago, Delight said:

That which is issued from the L.O. in relation to a condominium  apartment is not a chanote.A chanote  can only refer to land.

I know. That is what I stated. Another poster claimed a foreigner is issued a channote title with a condominium, not me. See below;

 

On 4/24/2018 at 6:14 AM, KittenKong said:

As far as I know farangs can buy them and will get a chanote in their name.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 24/04/2018 at 1:14 PM, KittenKong said:

In Pattaya there are some older "condos" that are low-rise and look like townhouses to me. They are part of larger high-rise condo developments. As far as I know farangs can buy them and will get a chanote in their name.

Sorry a non Thai national can never get a Chanote in their name.

 

A Chanote is a specific land ownership title, it not a generic name.

 

There is only one circumstance where a non Thai national can be a (very) temporary owner of land titles and even then they will never get their name on the titles.

 

The fact that people call the document of ownership of a condominium a Chanote just means that they don't know the meaning of the word Chanote, it doesn't mean that they have a Chanote.

 

There is a similar confusion regarding extensions of stay being called visas 

Edited April 25, 2018 by sometimewoodworker
Clarity

[KittenKong]

The fact that people call the document of ownership of a condominium a Chanote just means that they don't know the meaning of the word Chanote, it doesn't mean that they have a Chanote.

Dear me. Given that everyone I have ever come across (including all estate agents, the Land Office, and the JPMs of buildings) refers to the condominium title document as a chanote it seems fairly pointless to call it something else.
But you are welcome to do so if you think it will improve comprehension.
I will stick to using the word that everyone understands.

Edited April 26, 2018 by KittenKong

[KittenKong]

A channote is a full land title. How can you be issued a full land title without land? I understand you would get a certificate stating you owned a fractional share but I don't believe you would receive a channote title from the Land Registry Department. There are plenty of leasehold condominium buildings in Thailand by-the-way.

Condo ownership does not necessarily involve leases here as the building normally owns the land on which it is built, and the individual co-owners own both their condo and a share of the building as I mentioned. I would not want to buy into a condominium that did not own the land on which is was built.

Condo units can indeed be leased, but this is a just a long-term rental agreement and has no bearing on the ownership.

[KittenKong]

I thought they were referred to as Villa Condominiums in Thailand? They must obtain a condominium license and the legality of this type of condominium under the Condominium Act is controversial and licensing is usually refused. Maybe they will find in the future that they don't actually own what they thought they did.

This is the point of the document issued by the land office and referred to as a chanote. It shows what you own and there can be no future surprises. If the building is not indeed a licensed condo then the land office will not put a farang's name on the title deed in the first place, and there can be no transfer.

[Peterw42]

7 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

A channote is a full land title. How can you be issued a full land title without land? I understand you would get a certificate stating you owned a fractional share but I don't believe you would receive a channote title from the Land Registry Department. There are plenty of leasehold condominium buildings in Thailand by-the-way.

There are many different chanotes, "TorDor 21" for land and house; "OrChor 21" for condominium.

 

The word chanote may translate to "land title", in reality its a widely used generic term for title deeds, property ownership etc.

 

The Land office, Banks, Government departments etc ALL use the term Chanote when referring to a Condo ownership document.

 

Its just semantics saying a Chanote only refers to land, and achieves nothing .

[BobBKK]

A clue is in the second part i.e. HOUSE?

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

 

Dear me. Given that everyone I have ever come across (including all estate agents, the Land Office, and the JPMs of buildings) refers to the condominium title document as a chanote it seems fairly pointless to call it something else.
But you are welcome to do so if you think it will improve comprehension.
I will stick to using the word that everyone understands.

 

A condominium title is a "Ao. Sor. 2" and is a "Condominium Apartment Ownership Title Deed" and has no individual land ownership.

 

A Chanote is a Nor. Sor. 4 Jor and is an ownership document for land

 

Just check with any law office.

 

or if you are a condominium owner look at the top right of your ownership document 

 

 

If you have a Chanote it will have a red Garuda the word Chanote in Thai  and Nor Sor 4  Jor 

 

 

If it doesn't it isn't a Chanote.

 

It is common for Thai people and business to use words to make people happy, that doesn't make them true

Edited April 26, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[KittenKong]

A condominium title is a "Ao. Sor. 2" and is a "Condominium Apartment Ownership Title Deed" and has no individual land ownership.

At what point did I suggest that there was any notion of individual land ownership involved? On the contrary, I repeatedly mentioned shared ownership, and this is what a condo gets you. But to me there is no obvious reason why such shared land ownership could not be extended to land that only has one dwelling on it, and indeed this is apparently the case in the older condo buildings that I mentioned.

For what it's worth the chanote for my condo has a red garuda and some Thai writing on it, and a very detailed outline drawing of my condo with all the measurements of every part. Just like all the others I have seen. Call it what you like.

[Grusa]

My (farang) wife and I have recently completed purchase of our town house within a well known and respected condominium mu Baan in Na Jomtien. The town house is not considered to be condominium property, it has its own chanote for land and house, but it shares common services and facilities with the condominium, we pay proportionately by area. It cannot be owned by farang.

As we did not want to go down the company ownership road, with associated risks and expenses, and we do not care what happens after we are dead! we opted to put it in the name of the son of a trusted Thai friend, with a usufruct. We hold in our possession the chanote, and yes it is a real one! The second last entry is the name of the Thai owner, our friends' son, and the last entry is a record of the usufruct in our names - all in Thai, of course.

The land office people were not happy to accept the usufruct arrangement, as it is normally used to protect the interests of a foreign partner to a Thai person. It is not common, more often a 30year rent agreement is used, however we have useful friends and they gave in gracefully! The usufruct is a stronger instrument than rent agreements, and the property cannot be sold out from under us or borrowed against. It costs, by the way, ฿200 to register! We are now in a position to get a yellow Tabien Baan, only a few more hoops to jump through.

[Peterw42]

31 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

At what point did I suggest that there was any notion of individual land ownership involved? On the contrary, I repeatedly mentioned shared ownership, and this is what a condo gets you. But to me there is no obvious reason why such shared land ownership could not be extended to land that only has one dwelling on it, and indeed this is apparently the case in the older condo buildings that I mentioned.

For what it's worth the chanote for my condo has a red garuda and some Thai writing on it, and a very detailed outline drawing of my condo with all the measurements of every part. Just like all the others I have seen. Call it what you like.

I am extremely worried about my Thai motorbike license as its called a "driving license", not a riding license.

The only valid licenses in Thailand is a car license, as its called a "driving license". 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

Here is an interesting exercise, put the word "deed" into a translator app or goggle translate etc and it brings up the Thai word "Chanote".

[inThailand]

Condos can only be built on chantote titled land. Another reason why the word chanote is used when talking about condos. 

[DavidB4]

21 hours ago, gaff said:

 

Interesting ,is it in BKK or Pattaya ?

 

 

BKK, Suk. Soi 23 at the end near the klong, forget the name right now. One guy bought 3 of them and connected 2 together. 

[Fish Head Soup]

Answer to OP. No.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Fish Head Soup
Not going to argue with stupid!

[inThailand]

The condo act does not specify building requirements. So in theory, houses, townhouses, or apt style structures could get a condo registration. Haven't come across the first two.

[KittenKong]

Condos can only be built on chantote titled land. Another reason why the word chanote is used when talking about condos.

My knowledge of Bangkok is very limited, but I seem to remember hearing about an older condo building there that is actually built on leased land. It may not be true, of course, and I am in no position to verify it. Certainly not something I would want to get into.

Edited April 27, 2018 by KittenKong

[sometimewoodworker]

On 26/04/2018 at 10:59 AM, Peterw42 said:

I am extremely worried about my Thai motorbike license as its called a "driving license", not a riding license.

Don't as it is "Type Private Motorcycle"