Why choose Chinese tourists over the traditional western tourists?

[DrTuner]

On 5/14/2018 at 3:15 PM, Peterw42 said:

I can show you evidence that its actually the opposite, Chinese have the highest daily spend but tend not to stay a long time. Its one of those barstool myths that Chinese dont spend

 

 

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

Data from TAT, the most reliable source ever. I'm guessing this comes from some sort of poll, peppered with the traditional mountain of BS by TAT, skewed by face wanting Asians and Arabs wanting to bolster their actual spending? Take with a ton of salt.

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

20 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Data from TAT, the most reliable source ever. I'm guessing this comes from some sort of poll, peppered with the traditional mountain of BS by TAT, skewed by face wanting Asians and Arabs wanting to bolster their actual spending? Take with a ton of salt.

 

 

 

Every forum in the world you go to there is going to be a reply just like yours. The numbers are padded....it's all BS.... the economy is crashing. Been reading the same thing about realtors in Toronto where I bought a condo saying they always pad the numbers. How can salaries support such high prices. People called me an idiot buying 8 years ago at the "top of the bubble". 

 

The fact is Chinese are coming and they are spending money. This is happening now and it is a fact. What happens tomorrow, no one knows... you can only take an educated guess.

[Fruit Trader]

20 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

 As wth any decent business model volume is the key

 

It is until the environmental wheels fall off which is already starting to happen. Its not quite the same as a Walmart model.

[DrTuner]

59 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Every forum in the world you go to there is going to be a reply just like yours. The numbers are padded....it's all BS.... the economy is crashing. Been reading the same thing about realtors in Toronto where I bought a condo saying they always pad the numbers. How can salaries support such high prices. People called me an idiot buying 8 years ago at the "top of the bubble". 

 

The fact is Chinese are coming and they are spending money. This is happening now and it is a fact. What happens tomorrow, no one knows... you can only take an educated guess.

From that website:

 

Quote

How are these data gathered?
We honestly do not know, but they have been reported for many years.

 

But hey, trust it by all means. It's true the Chinese are coming, in hordes and those hordes are big enough to bring a pile of cash - a lot of which goes right back to China through the setups like illegal hotels, kickbacks from Thai restaurants, etc. The loser is the average Thai whose country is gang-raped without mercy.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

14 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

The loser is the average Thai 

 

The loser is always the average Joe

[canuckamuck]

16 hours ago, mstevens said:

It's simple.  The PERCEPTION among many Thais in the tourism business is that there is more money to be made from the Chinese than there is from Westerners, be that now, in the future or both.  As such, many businesses are gearing up to or already service the Chinese visitor market.  Thais are pragmatists and will go where the money is.  If Nigeria suddenly discovers a new compound that prolongs life and allows the average person to live to 150 and subsequently becomes the wealthiest country on the planet by selling this compound, the Thais would become very friendly and welcoming towards Nigerians.  Many Thais in the tourism industry simply service the sector of the market which, rightly or wrongly, they think they will make the most money from.  And for many, that means looking after the Chinese.

I see what your saying but dislike your analogy. Pfizer invented the hardon pill and only made itself rich. Big pharma doesn't share.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

From that website:

 

 

But hey, trust it by all means. It's true the Chinese are coming, in hordes and those hordes are big enough to bring a pile of cash - a lot of which goes right back to China through the setups like illegal hotels, kickbacks from Thai restaurants, etc. The loser is the average Thai whose country is gang-raped without mercy.

  Which "average" Thais are you talking about?   The ones driving all the parasail boats and piloting all the island ferries?  The ones cleaning all the hotel rooms and the pools and staffing all the front desks?  The ones driving all the tour buses, baht buses, and the taxis, both car and motorbike?  The ones working in all the restaurants, in all the shops, at all the tour sites?  The ones operating all the street carts selling fruits and vegetables and other food?  The ones........

[DrTuner]

15 minutes ago, newnative said:

  Which "average" Thais are you talking about?   The ones driving all the parasail boats and piloting all the island ferries?  The ones cleaning all the hotel rooms and the pools and staffing all the front desks?  The ones driving all the tour buses, baht buses, and the taxis, both car and motorbike?  The ones working in all the restaurants, in all the shops, at all the tour sites?  The ones operating all the street carts selling fruits and vegetables and other food?  The ones........

Every single one left in a country resembling an apocalyptic scene after the locusts have left, just like they did in Spain. With the added bonus of most of the profits having been repatriated to China. Yeah I know, it requires an attention span a little longer than the time between two portions of somtam. Which is why Thais don't care, anything to the god of making a quick baht.

 

At least in Europe some are rising up against the hordes.. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/aug/10/anti-tourism-marches-spread-across-europe-venice-barcelona

Edited May 15, 2018 by DrTuner
Link

[balo]

It doesn't matter if they spend 5 times less than the westerners , because there is an endless supply of them ! 

 

Last night , like every night in Naklua , buses coming in the small soi , not 1 or 2 buses but 20-50 buses are passing in 1 hour!!!! And I'm not joking here.   

90% are Chinese , and 10% are Indians.  

They all go in the same direction to some of the cheap eating places reserved for them . Lots of money involved here , even if the Chinese themselves do not spend a lot. They already paid for the whole package in China.  

 

But you can forget low season now , the Chinese invasion has just started. 

 

And for us expats , it just means more buses, more pollution and more Chinese faces everywhere..  And they love to buy cheap fruits so the street sellers are not complaining. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by balo

[Jonathan Fairfield]

On 14/05/2018 at 3:15 PM, Peterw42 said:

I can show you evidence that its actually the opposite, Chinese have the highest daily spend but tend not to stay a long time. Its one of those barstool myths that Chinese dont spend

 

 

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

At a meeting with Bangkok hoteliers and people from TAT, Thaivisa was presented similar stats to this.

 

One thing that stood out is that we were informed Chinese tourists visit an average of 5 tourist attractions per trip to Thailand, much higher than other nationality. Chinese are spending money here just not in the same places us westerners do. Places like Nong Nooch in Pattaya, the various water parks etc, all filled with Chinese tourists each day.

 

And for hoteliers, Chinese tourists are great because since the crackdown on so called 'zero dollar tours', the legit tour groups pay for all their accommodation up front, meaning the hotel receives the money before the group has even arrived. In contrast, it can normally take a month or so before money from western tourists hits the account of the hotel due to a delay booking through sites like Agoda or Booking.com.

 

Dan, our MD, wrote a blog post related to this: https://danaboutthailand.com/2018/04/04/thailand-and-hoteliers-want-the-chinese-over-western-tourist/

[newnative]

8 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Every single one left in a country resembling an apocalyptic scene after the locusts have left, just like they did in Spain. With the added bonus of most of the profits having been repatriated to China. Yeah I know, it requires an attention span a little longer than the time between two portions of somtam. Which is why Thais don't care, anything to the god of making a quick baht.

 

At least in Europe some are rising up against the hordes.. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/aug/10/anti-A bit tourism-marches-spread-across-europe-venice-barcelona

     A bit dramatic aren't we?   But, back to the "average" Thais--like all the ones I listed.  How does "most of the profits" these Thais are making from Chinese tourists end up back in China?  The street vendor, for example, selling fruit to a Chinese tourist?  Seems to me the vendor bought the fruit from a farmer, who made some money on the sale. The vendor then sold the fruit and also made some money.  So, they both have money from their work to purchase goods and services from other Thais.  And, so it goes with all the regular workers, be they maids, cooks, shop keepers, tourist workers, barbers, wait staff, drivers, etc.  It may be true that a Chinese might own a restaurant where Chinese tourists are taken to eat, and some of the restaurant profits might end up back in China, but I doubt your "average" Thais are losing any sleep over it.  

   

[poanoi]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

At a meeting with Bangkok hoteliers and people from TAT, Thaivisa was presented similar stats to this.

 

One thing that stood out is that we were informed Chinese tourists visit an average of 5 tourist attractions per trip to Thailand, much higher than other nationality. Chinese are spending money here just not in the same places us westerners do. Places like Nong Nooch in Pattaya, the various water parks etc, all filled with Chinese tourists each day.

 

And for hoteliers, Chinese tourists are great because since the crackdown on so called 'zero dollar tours', the legit tour groups pay for all their accommodation up front, meaning the hotel receives the money before the group has even arrived. In contrast, it can normally take a month or so before money from western tourists hits the account of the hotel due to a delay booking through sites like Agoda or Booking.com.

 

Dan, our MD, wrote a blog post related to this: https://danaboutthailand.com/2018/04/04/thailand-and-hoteliers-want-the-chinese-over-western-tourist/

its different natives getting the benefits

 

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll posts and one reply have been removed

[DrTuner]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

     A bit dramatic aren't we?   But, back to the "average" Thais--like all the ones I listed.  How does "most of the profits" these Thais are making from Chinese tourists end up back in China?  The street vendor, for example, selling fruit to a Chinese tourist?  Seems to me the vendor bought the fruit from a farmer, who made some money on the sale. The vendor then sold the fruit and also made some money.  So, they both have money from their work to purchase goods and services from other Thais.  And, so it goes with all the regular workers, be they maids, cooks, shop keepers, tourist workers, barbers, wait staff, drivers, etc.  It may be true that a Chinese might own a restaurant where Chinese tourists are taken to eat, and some of the restaurant profits might end up back in China, but I doubt your "average" Thais are losing any sleep over it.  

   

Would that be these fruit sellers? 

Chinese are herded from one fleecing point to the next in never-ending convoys of buses. Only a few select VIP sellers get to sell anything near these spots. Take a look at the Chinese feeding stall on Tai, last time I drove by after a bus had dropped the cattle off I saw the herders shoo a hopeful seller on a cart away. Controlled milking.

 

A couple of weeks back I visited Jomthien, the same lady's patch on the beach we've visiting for the last 10 years and she mentioned she's thinking of packing it in. Even the Russians seem to have thinned out and Chinese are nowhere to be seen, BKK weekend hordes are heading elsewhere. And that's on a prime spot there. Euros have left the building a couple of years ago, all of the friends that used to come here every 3-4 months are now going elsewhere, Russians were barely bearable, but the Chinese have sucked the life out. Might as well change the name to New Dongguan.

 

 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Would that be these fruit sellers? 

Chinese are herded from one fleecing point to the next in never-ending convoys of buses. Only a few select VIP sellers get to sell anything near these spots. Take a look at the Chinese feeding stall on Tai, last time I drove by after a bus had dropped the cattle off I saw the herders shoo a hopeful seller on a cart away. Controlled milking.

 

A couple of weeks back I visited Jomthien, the same lady's patch on the beach we've visiting for the last 10 years and she mentioned she's thinking of packing it in. Even the Russians seem to have thinned out and Chinese are nowhere to be seen, BKK weekend hordes are heading elsewhere. And that's on a prime spot there. Euros have left the building a couple of years ago, all of the friends that used to come here every 3-4 months are now going elsewhere, Russians were barely bearable, but the Chinese have sucked the life out. Might as well change the name to New Dongguan.

 

 

     You seem to be losing your train of thought.  In a previous post you were warning of hordes of tourists like locusts destroying Thailand and you referenced an article about cities like Venice being over-run with tourists.  Now, in this post, "Russians seem to have thinned out and Chinese are nowhere to be seen, BKK weekend hordes are heading elsewhere."  And, "Euros have left the building a couple years ago..."    So, which is it?  Over-run with tourists or ghost town?

[DrTuner]

6 minutes ago, newnative said:

     You seem to be losing your train of thought.  In a previous post you were warning of hordes of tourists like locusts destroying Thailand and you referenced an article about cities like Venice being over-run with tourists.  Now, in this post, "Russians seem to have thinned out and Chinese are nowhere to be seen, BKK weekend hordes are heading elsewhere."  And, "Euros have left the building a couple years ago..."    So, which is it?  Over-run with tourists or ghost town?

Read. Chinese are taken to designated spots, owned and run by Chinese or their lackeys. Your fruit sellers have no access to this supply chain. The result is roads clogged with buses transferring the herds to the next predetermined milking station. That congestion and centralization then manages to kill off even the places the culprits themselves don't visit, ie. the fruit sellers, and drives away westerners. The infrastructure can't take mass tourism at their scale.

 

Here's an example for you of the mass tourism plague destroying a prime spot: 

 Similar thing already happened to Koh Larn. The China beach there is disgusting. The Thais owning those few booths there might have made a quick baht, but the price will be paid later.

[keith101]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 4:15 PM, Peterw42 said:

I can show you evidence that its actually the opposite, Chinese have the highest daily spend but tend not to stay a long time. Its one of those barstool myths that Chinese dont spend

 

 

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

Yes but only spend at where the buses take them and guides allow them to go to most are Chinese operated so that most of the money stays with the Chinese 

[newnative]

35 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Read. Chinese are taken to designated spots, owned and run by Chinese or their lackeys. Your fruit sellers have no access to this supply chain. The result is roads clogged with buses transferring the herds to the next predetermined milking station. That congestion and centralization then manages to kill off even the places the culprits themselves don't visit, ie. the fruit sellers, and drives away westerners. The infrastructure can't take mass tourism at their scale.

 

Here's an example for you of the mass tourism plague destroying a prime spot: 

 Similar thing already happened to Koh Larn. The China beach there is disgusting. The Thais owning those few booths there might have made a quick baht, but the price will be paid later.

      Nonsense.  You're assuming all Chinese are in tour groups and that's not the case at all.  But, even if they are all in groups, the average Thai--that you mentioned in your original post--is benefiting because someone has to clean the hotel rooms, clean the pools, run the hotels, serve and cook the food at the restaurants, work the tourist attractions, drive the buses, taxis, and boats, etc., etc., etc.

       

[newnative]

4 hours ago, keith101 said:

Yes but only spend at where the buses take them and guides allow them to go to most are Chinese operated so that most of the money stays with the Chinese 

Nope.  

[balo]

11 hours ago, newnative said:

Nonsense.  You're assuming all Chinese are in tour groups and that's not the case at all.  But, even if they are all in groups, the average Thai--that you mentioned in your original post--is benefiting because someone has to clean the hotel rooms, clean the pools, run the hotels, serve and cook the food at the restaurants, work the tourist attractions, drive the buses, taxis, and boats, etc., etc., etc.

If you are talking about Pattaya , my impression are most of them are package tourists on buses.  The numbers could be something like 90% , maybe 10% could be single Chinese travellers who can afford a trip outside the tour groups.

 

And if you are a part of the tour group , you are lead to special restaurants that only serve chinese food to the  group that arrives on the bus .  (there are no signs on the door, they are not open for single tourists)  I have witnessed this daily in Naklua.  The same with hotels , it's prepaid trips , all-included. Yes some money will go to the cleaning ladies perhaps , and some of the drivers , and the dedicated restaurants  but most of it ends up in the pockets of the tour operator.  

 

The Chinese themselves will buy a few things inside 7 elevens , fruit from some of the vendors, but nothing much . I observe this on a daily basis , because I live nearby. 

 

 

   

 

 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, balo said:

If you are talking about Pattaya , my impression are most of them are package tourists on buses.  The numbers could be something like 90% , maybe 10% could be single Chinese travellers who can afford a trip outside the tour groups.

 

And if you are a part of the tour group , you are lead to special restaurants that only serve chinese food to the  group that arrives on the bus .  (there are no signs on the door, they are not open for single tourists)  I have witnessed this daily in Naklua.  The same with hotels , it's prepaid trips , all-included. Yes some money will go to the cleaning ladies perhaps , and some of the drivers , and the dedicated restaurants  but most of it ends up in the pockets of the tour operator.  

 

The Chinese themselves will buy a few things inside 7 elevens , fruit from some of the vendors, but nothing much . I observe this on a daily basis , because I live nearby. 

 

 

   

 

 

        "...it's prepaid trips, all included."   Yes, indeed--and isn't that true the World over with many tour group plans; hotels and tour buses are paid for in advance and sometimes one or two meals a day are included.  And, also true for all the cruises on ships, for that matter.  Carnival, for example, takes in the most money for a cruise, with the passengers staying in rooms it owns and eating at restaurants on the ship that it owns, but that doesn't mean the 1000 or so regular workers on the ship aren't benefiting, as well; just as regular workers also benefit with prepaid land tours.  And, it's a lot more than ..."some money will go to the cleaning ladies perhaps..."    If you want to make a list you can start at the airport with all the airport employees and then go from there.  

[balo]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

If you want to make a list you can start at the airport with all the airport employees and then go from there.  

Yes , thai workers will benefit from the traffic. But its still agents and the tour operator that choose which bus company to work with , which restaurants , which hotels . And as you say just like any other tour group. 

Families who can afford to travel on their own will spend more money in nicer restaurants , nicer hotels , maybe even visit the bars and have a beer.  

 

[asiamaster]

On 5/14/2018 at 10:13 PM, possum1931 said:

I haven't a clue.

Yes I had already gathered that from your first comments...

[yogi100]

On 5/14/2018 at 6:05 PM, mauGR1 said:

Fair enough, but i never heard yet of hordes of Chinese going to bars and splash the cash on the ladies

 

Too true. The Chinese visitors may enrich the hotel chain owners and tourist companies but the working people in the entertainment areas won't see any of it. It's the falang punters who keep a lot of folks up in Isaan off of Struggle Street. 

 

When and if we stop coming and places like Soi 7 and Soi 8 in Pattaya will have been given over to hotels and it'll be back to the farms for many of those who now work in the bars. It's ironic that what made Pattaya famous may one day lead to its demise.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

Too true. The Chinese visitors may enrich the hotel chain owners and tourist companies but the working people in the entertainment areas won't see any of it. It's the falang punters who keep a lot of folks up in Isaan off of Struggle Street. 

 

When and if we stop coming and places like Soi 7 and Soi 8 in Pattaya will have been given over to hotels and it'll be back to the farms for many of those who now work in the bars. It's ironic that what made Pattaya famous may one day lead to its demise.

Demise?  Hardly.  Evolving?  Yes.

[DrTuner]

7 hours ago, yogi100 said:

When and if we stop coming and places like Soi 7 and Soi 8 in Pattaya will have been given over to hotels and it'll be back to the farms for many of those who now work in the bars. It's ironic that what made Pattaya famous may one day lead to its demise.

7&8 have been loosing to buakhao for a while now. And that is so far inland it could just as well be in Isaan. The Ur-Punter is being squeezed out slowly but surely.

[poanoi]

10 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

 It's ironic that what made Pattaya famous may one day lead to its demise.

i lost you there, what may one day lead to pattayas demise ?

[Songkran18]

Simple math: At the moment, only 5% of Chinese nationals have been issued a passport. That is equivalent to the whole body mass of Europe and half of USA’s population. 

Then take into account logistical travel. It’s only a six hour flight from major points in China, and Thailand is their best logical “nearby” destination. 

 

I’m a Thailand newbie, but before I traveled, I had a conversation with a frail Vietnam Vet. He didn’t remember the fishing village he visited. I mentioned “Pattaya,” and it struck the chord. His recollection described a place I should visit. I’ve known him for years and have seen termites take over his mind and body. When he was robust he ruled  that shore, and I let him explain how it was, back during his R&R during Nam. 

 

Anyways .... back to the main point. The Chinese visitors are just initially ramping up. My concern is who is ever governing the Thailand Tourist Bureaucracy is <deleted> up allowing land operators based in China run the show at their peril. 

 

During my 26 day visit, I took six excursions. The drivers where horrendous and at each instance, it was a lost opportunity for a local tour guide to educate the richness of Thailand. In that aspect, I don’t blame the hordes of tour groups from China that interfered my enjoyment of the Grand Palace. They educated their clients. 

 

Despite that, I enjoyed my stay. I’m perplexed still why Thailand is the most visited country. Their tourist infrastructure is non-existent. 

 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Songkran18 said:

Simple math: At the moment, only 5% of Chinese nationals have been issued a passport. That is equivalent to the whole body mass of Europe and half of USA’s population. 

Then take into account logistical travel. It’s only a six hour flight from major points in China, and Thailand is their best logical “nearby” destination. 

 

I’m a Thailand newbie, but before I traveled, I had a conversation with a frail Vietnam Vet. He didn’t remember the fishing village he visited. I mentioned “Pattaya,” and it struck the chord. His recollection described a place I should visit. I’ve known him for years and have seen termites take over his mind and body. When he was robust he ruled  that shore, and I let him explain how it was, back during his R&R during Nam. 

 

Anyways .... back to the main point. The Chinese visitors are just initially ramping up. My concern is who is ever governing the Thailand Tourist Bureaucracy is <deleted> up allowing land operators based in China run the show at their peril. 

 

During my 26 day visit, I took six excursions. The drivers where horrendous and at each instance, it was a lost opportunity for a local tour guide to educate the richness of Thailand. In that aspect, I don’t blame the hordes of tour groups from China that interfered my enjoyment of the Grand Palace. They educated their clients. 

 

Despite that, I enjoyed my stay. I’m perplexed still why Thailand is the most visited country. Their tourist infrastructure is non-existent. 

 

The Chinese with passports figure is low--I think it's around 9 or 10% now--but I agree that with its geographical location, as well as other factors, Thailand will be seeing a steady increase in Chinese tourists year after year as more Chinese have the means to travel--and get their first passport.

[MaeJoMTB]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

The Chinese with passports figure is low--I think it's around 9 or 10% now--but I agree that with its geographical location, as well as other factors, Thailand will be seeing a steady increase in Chinese tourists year after year as more Chinese have the means to travel--and get their first passport.

Cheapest flight from Chiang Mai is to/from China, 1,500bht if you buy a few months in advance (CNX/Changsha AirAsia).

So hardly surprising they are coming here the most.

Edited May 24, 2018 by MaeJoMTB