Relationship dynamics w/Thai wife questions

[woogoo]

For a quick background before my question, I am 28 and my wife is 25. We have been together for a little over two years now and have a five-month-old son. I come from a family where my parents have been married for over 40 years and their parents were married over 60 years each until they died. All first marriages. I have a very rigid view on marriage and its seriousness of which I recognize doesn't seem to be shared by this childlike (if I dare say) society. My wife (as far as I know, I've been given no reason to suspect otherwise but I suppose we never really know other people and especially not here) is a normal woman with a good job and a good background (doesn't drink or do drugs, graduated college, etc.). I have never had to deal with some of the problems other users here have mentioned of demands for money or in-law issues or anything of that sorts. But, here's where the problem is. I would say that 85 to 90% of our relationship is great. We are happy and enjoy the time we spend together. We both love our son and work to take care of him. We still get to travel though not as frequently now that the child has been born. That other 10 to 15% of the time when there are problems they are usually pretty minor (or at least they should be). The problem I have is that what should be a minor problem that we can easily discuss and move past ends up turning into this dramatic scene with me shouting at her and her ignoring me or trying to undercut me with some snide remark. She can't just have a discussion. There is no self-reflection. There is no improving the relationship. It just gets ugly till the next day then she apologizes and I have to apologize and it's fine till the next argument. The other problem is that every time there is the slightest problem she says she wants a divorce. I would never even consider a divorce as to me these are minor problems that just need to be worked past. But she says she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce and if we didn't have a child we wouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Then the next day it's all back to normal and she loves me all over again. Some of this I recognize as just dealing with women and emotional thinking but other parts I have to wonder if it isn't cultural.

Anyone else experiences this? Were you able to mitigate things and work it out? I don't want a divorce. I always saw myself as only having to marry once. And, obviously, the child makes these matters infinitely more complicated. 

[BobBKK]

'Thainess'  you can't bottle it, examine it nor understand it. You could not pay me to marry a Thai as they are wedded to drama and, often but not always, it ends in tears. Good luck and hope it works out for you but you are married to a 12 year old and if you view it thus maybe you can work it out (I view most Thais as 12 year old's and it makes life easier).

[MaeJoMTB]

45 minutes ago, woogoo said:

The problem I have is that what should be a minor problem that we can easily discuss and move past ends up turning into this dramatic scene with me shouting at her and her ignoring me or trying to undercut me with some snide remark. She can't just have a discussion. T

Entirely normal, most Thais see 'discussion' as 'confrontation'. It isn't in their culture so don't try to do it.

You're the man, your word is law, her duty is to serve you. No discussion, end of.

 

After 10 years of marriage to a Thai, took me a year to understand discussion causes problems.

Now, no discussion and no problems.

 

Had a discussion with my 20 yo step daughter this morning, I said 'do the washing up', she said, 'no'

So I picked her up carried her to the kitchen sink, put her down in front of the sink, and she did it.

End of 'discussion'.

[colinneil]

40 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Entirely normal, most Thais see 'discussion' as 'confrontation'. It isn't in their culture so don't try to do it.

You're the man, your word is law, her duty is to serve you. No discussion, end of.

 

After 10 years of marriage to a Thai, took me a year to understand discussion causes problems.

Now, no discussion and no problems.

 

Had a discussion with my 20 yo step daughter this morning, I said 'do the washing up', she said, 'no'

So I picked her up carried her to the kitchen sink, put her down in front of the sink, and she did it.

End of 'discussion'.

 Ooh you beast.

[petermik]

Being a young chap with a thai wife you will encounter these problems often...women the world over are difficult enough here much more so...you will need the luck of the gods or the patience of a thousand saints to survive unfortunately.

Try and sit her down and explain to her your interpretation of what living together harmoniously means and listen to her side....if she won,t do this....or her ideas are way out of sync with yours I would be looking for a strategic withdrawal.

You are too young to start out on a life of misery,life,s too short......good luck anyhow

 

[MaeJoMTB]

7 minutes ago, petermik said:

Try and sit her down and explain to her your interpretation of what living together harmoniously means and listen to her side.

You really have no idea about Thais or Thai women!

Thais don't want to know your interpenetration on anything, you are a foreigner, if you don't like that, go home.

I can just picture the hysterics, drama and possible violence from 'sitting her down and explaining'.

Something I could never understand about all the old white guys in Thailand, doesn't matter how long they live here, they learn NOTHING. I guess you can't fix stupid.

[faraday]

As post #5.

 

But make sure you do it in a loving way.

[catman20]

you married a child what do you expect.

[cms22]

19 hours ago, woogoo said:

her ignoring me or trying to undercut me with some snide remark. She can't just have a discussion. There is no self-reflection. There is no improving the relationship. It just gets ugly till the next day then she apologizes and I have to apologize and it's fine till the next argument. The other problem is that every time there is the slightest problem she says she wants a divorce

HAHA. Yes, this is it! Thai Women! Hate 'em, Love 'em. Aint nothing like 'em!

[tingtongtourist]

You mention "having dramatic scenes that end up with me shouting at her"

 

Shouting at any time ensures no more communication with Thais. 

they will turn off and shut out and you can never change that.

 

Im suprised OP dont know about this as its one of obvious first thing to learn about dealings between Thais and farang.

 

Yes they can frustrate the xxxx out of you but you must train yourself to stop before shouting, take a deep breath and think about how to deal with it without shouting.

 

when you can do that you will be suprised at how much easier it will become.

 

and if you cannot then watch out because one day you will probably end up with a knife in your guts!

 

[BobBKK]

19 minutes ago, cms22 said:

HAHA. Yes, this is it! Thai Women! Hate 'em, Love 'em. Aint nothing like 'em!

 

Yup, play 'em, pay 'em and don't get serious with 'em.    ?

[phetpeter]

I learn. "sure dear my fault. I'm a stupid farang. you are all knowing clever Thai,  Shut the f++k up if you ain't going to say anything but, complain" She spends a time trying to find any small problem to complain about. They don't know how to say something nice or complement about another. They look into their own beliefs, that is about 'me'.  So don't expect the courtship (Loose knickers, cuddles and instant sex) to continue. But, they do care, and love you,(Note: Will always hold your hand/arm when crossing the road..They don't wanna lose you yet!) but, "not as we know it, Captain!'

[Toscano]

Thai wives seem to be nearly all the same , they have never learned or been taught temper control .  If there is a difference of opinion you cannot have a reasoned discussion with them , they are right and you are wrong .  It is a mistake to get angry and shout , next you will be Thai boxing ; it is best to shut up and go silent and let it pass . My wife orders me to go back to my country ; I tell her that if she doesn't want to live with me , she has another house up the road to go and live there with her son .  Usually after about half an hour she is all sweetness and wants a loving hug .  If foreigners saw the evening soaps on TV channel 7 before coming to Thailand , they would never consider marrying a Thai woman .  Thai women are often very pretty and alluring ; there are exceptions of plainer diminutive women who may not make arguments all the time . 

[wwest5829]

18 hours ago, petermik said:

Being a young chap with a thai wife you will encounter these problems often...women the world over are difficult enough here much more so...you will need the luck of the gods or the patience of a thousand saints to survive unfortunately.

Try and sit her down and explain to her your interpretation of what living together harmoniously means and listen to her side....if she won,t do this....or her ideas are way out of sync with yours I would be looking for a strategic withdrawal.

You are too young to start out on a life of misery,life,s too short......good luck anyhow

 

Maybe the book, "Thailand Fever" will help reflect on the cultural differences. After 7 years here I am still learning as I go along.

[wwest5829]

2 minutes ago, Toscano said:

Thai wives seem to be nearly all the same , they have never learned or been taught temper control .  If there is a difference of opinion you cannot have a reasoned discussion with them , they are right and you are wrong .  It is a mistake to get angry and shout , next you will be Thai boxing ; it is best to shut up and go silent and let it pass . My wife orders me to go back to my country ; I tell her that if she doesn't want to live with me , she has another house up the road to go and live there with her son .  Usually after about half an hour she is all sweetness and wants a loving hug .  If foreigners saw the evening soaps on TV channel 7 before coming to Thailand , they would never consider marrying a Thai woman .  Thai women are often very pretty and alluring ; there are exceptions of plainer diminutive women who may not make arguments all the time . 

How's the song go? "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, go and make an ugly woman your wife"!? Fortunately, I have not had to resort to such...

[remorhaz]

For starters you are dealing with a woman - she is childlike and completely driven by emotion.  She is entirely incapable of loving you the way you define love.  When she says she "loves you" it means that at that moment, she is happy to be around you.  When she argues with you that changes and when you make up it changes again.  This is female love - it is situational, ephemeral, entirely based on her ever changing emotional state, and will vary like the weather or the tides.  There is no "feminine mystique", there is just a 2 year old ID using its adult like intellect to justify its behavior post hoc.  Welcome to adulthood - life and love is NOT what Hallmark says it is that was just to sell you greeting cards, flowers, and garish overpriced shiny rocks.  

 

I know the white knights will now come out in force with stories of NAWALT (not all women are like that) but they're wrong.  They may die young and/or provide their wives enough adrenaline and thrills that they never have to face up to the reality but if they aren't Brad Pitt crossed with Casanova they are going to be dealing with the same issues as you.  Best advice now that you are tied down?  Be the rock.  Let her rage and storm all around but don't be moved.  Dismiss her demands for divorce out of hand do not entertain them yourself.  You need to be the adult in the relationship because she is not capable of such. .... but... I would also tell you to immediately start preparing for the worst silently - get a separate bank account and don't "buy her a house" or do anything else that makes it easier for her to leave you.  The more you do this the more likely she is to try out her childish fantasy of leaving you believing that she can do it alone... so long as she has the house YOU bought and continuous stream of YOUR money.  The "independent woman" give me a f***ing break.  You want her nice and dependent on you for resources which historically has been the reason most marriages "succeeded" not all the love nonsense you've been force fed.  Men love women, women love themselves.  She loves you to the extent that she believes you make her situation and social standing better.  Her love does not exist (as your does) outside of her own self, it is entirely solipsistic, narcissistic, and often times parasitic.  That's life and the person you are dealing with.  This doesn't mean you both can't be happy but you need to understand the actual rules of the game you are playing.  Be the rock, good luck.  

[RichardColeman]

20 hours ago, woogoo said:

But she says she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce

Call her bluff and say OK !

[OmarZaid]

Over look this 10 - 15 %  it's not important ... be a gardener ... go about the garden quietly

[Emster23]

22 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

You mention "having dramatic scenes that end up with me shouting at her"

 

Shouting at any time ensures no more communication with Thais. 

they will turn off and shut out and you can never change that.

 

Im suprised OP dont know about this as its one of obvious first thing to learn about dealings between Thais and farang.

 

Yes they can frustrate the xxxx out of you but you must train yourself to stop before shouting, take a deep breath and think about how to deal with it without shouting.

 

when you can do that you will be suprised at how much easier it will become.

 

and if you cannot then watch out because one day you will probably end up with a knife in your guts!

 

and " dramatic scene with me shouting at her and her ignoring me or trying to undercut me with some snide remark. She can't just have a discussion. There is no self-reflection.' Shouting at anyone, regardless of culture, would tend to shutdown communication. Shouting is not discussion. I suggest a bit of "self reflection" on your part is in order.

[phetpeter]

I knew I was not alone! ? I must have learnt the ways! 'Grasshopper!' We have been together 16 years and I certainly haven't always been a good-boy (been grassed up twice!). But we are still together and have a 14 yr girl (I mean ..Monster teenager) TO HELP COUNTER SOME OF THE ROWS NOW!

[realenglish1]

I have been with my wife now for over 10 years We fight That is normal And during the heat of the fight she says some nasty stuff as I do

We threaten to leave each other She says she will move to her sisters and I say I will leave her

Then the next day its very normal

This is called marriage I would wonder if there was no fighting As far as talking about stuff Thais do not They do not like the confrontation of it 

So I accept that and learn to love what I always have loved about here There will always be negatives about someone you live with.

You can choose to go with someone else Sure at the beginning its fun but when real life sets it more than likely you will have the same just different circumstances 

[phetpeter]

Trying to download a free copy of the Thailand fever book,  But, only getting links to download crap attachments to my computer. anybody got a copy of the book I can just download to read?

[manchega]

screw the cynics.

you speak a different mother language come from different countries.  

its problems all over the world where expectations are not met. with a cultural fuk up on top

its possible the actual understanding is not there, different languages after all. - its not what you say but the way you say it. just think of the issues in communicating English between native speakers, one word can trigger instant amnity I'm usre there are plenty of trigger words 

 

next time the row happens try buggering off to the beach for a few days, turn off the phone for a few days.

 

Then when all is calm you will find thousands of missed calls 

[mstevens]

11 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

I have been with my wife now for over 10 years We fight That is normal And during the heat of the fight she says some nasty stuff as I do

We threaten to leave each other She says she will move to her sisters and I say I will leave her

Then the next day its very normal

This is called marriage

I like peace and quiet and avoid dramas and nastiness.  No way could I be happy with the home life you have described.  To me, this is not marriage but a relationship overdue for divorce.

[NanLaew]

41 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Yup, play 'em, pay 'em and don't get serious with 'em.    ?

Wimmin... can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

 

Can't kill 'em either.

 

The OP confides

20 hours ago, woogoo said:

... that 85 to 90% of our relationship is great. We are happy and enjoy the time we spend together. We both love our son and work to take care of him.

Maybe stop focusing on the 10-15% that is relatively sh!t and stop trying to attain the unattainable 100% happy happy joy joy.

 

It's a myth and doesn't exist unless you are seriously into the 'for unconditional love, get a dog' nonsense school of thought.

[NanLaew]

26 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

Trying to download a free copy of the Thailand fever book,  But, only getting links to download crap attachments to my computer. anybody got a copy of the book I can just download to read?

Stop being cheap and buy the bloody thing.

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, mstevens said:

I like peace and quiet and avoid dramas and nastiness.  No way could I be happy with the home life you have described.  To me, this is not marriage but a relationship overdue for divorce.

Are you married? Thai wife? Reasonably educated? Children?

 

If yes to any of the above, when she refuses to wash the dishes, do you simply pick her up and dump her in front of the sink like a beast?

[Bundooman]

20 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Entirely normal, most Thais see 'discussion' as 'confrontation'. It isn't in their culture so don't try to do it.

You're the man, your word is law, her duty is to serve you. No discussion, end of.

 

After 10 years of marriage to a Thai, took me a year to understand discussion causes problems.

Now, no discussion and no problems.

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head, OP. Like you, I have been with my Thai wife for ten years. I have never been able to put my finger on the complex subject of 'conversation', and the sometimes bad ending to a number of them.

 

While we now have conversations of general matters and can sometimes get through the entire subject objectively and to the satisfaction of both of us, there have been numerous occasions where that doesn't work. In those instances, I think you are right in that they feel deep conversations, of the type that many of us have and expect in our native countries, are viewed as confrontational.

 

I also think that it is a little bit to do with the nationwide lack of knowledge about almost everything that occurs in the 'outside' world. Thais are not interested, (because they haven't been taught to be so), and therefore, either don't believe us, or that we, as foreigners, feel superior for having this knowledge.

 

I liked your post. short and sensible. It rang a bell with me and will encourage me to think twice when the next conversation arises.

 

And in 9 year's time, I will remember with amusement your washing up episode when my own daughter reaches her 20th year! Cheers.

[phetpeter]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Stop being cheap and buy the bloody thing.

 Na! They all make money by the adverts, when we click on them or the page comes up. Plus we must save the world, reduce paper use to protect the trees  ? plus I only want to borrow , when read ...give it back  555! ('I didn't get where I am today, by, spending my own money" ?

[BobBKK]

Just now, Bundooman said:

I think you have hit the nail on the head, OP. Like you, I have been with my Thai wife for ten years. I have never been able to put my finger on the complex subject of 'conversation', and the sometimes bad ending to a number of them.

 

While we now have conversations of general matters and can sometimes get through the entire subject objectively and to the satisfaction of both of us, there have been numerous occasions where that doesn't work. In those instances, I think you are right in that they feel deep conversations, of the type that many of us have and expect in our native countries, are viewed as confrontational.

 

I also think that it is a little bit to do with the nationwide lack of knowledge about almost everything that occurs in the 'outside' world. Thais are not interested, (because they haven't been taught to be so), and therefore, either don't believe us, or that we, as foreigners, feel superior for having this knowledge.

 

I liked your post. short and sensible. It rang a bell with me and will encourage me to think twice when the next conversation arises.

 

And in 9 year's time, I will remember with amusement your washing up episode when my own daughter reaches her 20th year! Cheers.

If you can't have a serious conversation with your 'wife' then I suggest she is no real wife at all in the sense that you are not close, don't have mutual understanding and respect etc. I agree Thais are VERY insular and most don't know who Nelson Mandela was and who Ghandi was but might know who Trump is as it's a short word and he's ubiquitous. Thais are just, basically, uneducated and kept dumb by their system that does not want 'thinkers'. It's beyond me why anyone would want to marry one I must say, well i do get it, I suppose, 20 years younger and free sex everyday but I prefer change and no dramas from am emotional 12 year old.