Relationship dynamics w/Thai wife questions

[timendres]

Thai people are not all immature children. I have met serious business leaders who take their careers to impressive lengths. I have met deep thinkers, those who can discuss politics, and those who strive for greatness. I have met Thai women who, like their western counterparts, are happy to have discussions about their relationships and work on deeper understanding and harmony.

 

But, in general, Thais live and breath the motto "sanook sanook, sabay sabay". They live in the moment. They know troubles and confrontations will arise, but they prefer to ignore this fact until it is unavoidable, then get past them with the least amount of difficulty or loss of face. So they can get back to living "the life". Frankly, I believe this is what appeals to most expats who really enjoy living here. So why fight it?

 

The west industrialized the world, they built the Internet, they put men on the moon - they are all dead in the long run.

 

Thais gave us Jasmine rice and playing water and could restart the dead heart of an old man - still all dead in the long run.

 

OP try to understand to whom you are married, and learn to see the confrontations coming before they arrive, then dodge them like Neo dodging bullets in The Matrix. Be the man, lead, and let your wife know how much you love how she follows. Leading is not dictating. It is knowing what she needs before she does, and delivering it. Any problems, they are always due to the shortcomings of the leader. Accept it, correct it, move on.

[catman20]

 

Thai people are not all immature children. I have met serious business leaders who take their careers to impressive lengths. I have met deep thinkers, those who can discuss politics, and those who strive for greatness. I have met Thai women who, like their western counterparts, are happy to have discussions about their relationships and work on deeper understanding and harmony.

 

and these sorts of Thais like to keep the rest of the Thais stupid, guess what ? it working.

[totally thaied up]

7 hours ago, timendres said:

Leading is not dictating.

These words are what I wanted to say in my post before; I am no wordsmith and that is it in a nutshell. People may say I am old school across the way I think and act but no; in truth, my wife wants me to lead and not be weak. I have seen the weak here, and they get led about by the nose and wallet. I hate to say it, many get to Thailand, hook up with a bit of fluff and get taken 'to town by the proverbial by a village beauty'. It's a mix of a lack of sex in a Western society on mostly unattractive women (my view as Asian girls floated my boat since the age of 16) and complain later; suddenly 'they' got 'done' and 'stung' by a 'pixie;' not done over from their lack of sense, letting their little head do all the thinking and not leading but giving way too much, way too soon.


Two weeks ago, we bought a car. We went around to so many dealerships it made my head spin. We got the best deal we could find and on payday, I went in and played hardball. I suppose my wife never saw the business side of me. In my previous life, I was a negotiator/trader. I managed to walk out the dealership with a fantastic deal. Sure, nowhere near what I could do in Australia but my wife found that side of me very empowering. In all honesty, she sat there as I was dealing and looked shocked and pleased in all one go in seeing a side of me that she has never seen.


Both sides need to lead in a relationship on either sides strength for it to work. My wife sold a massive amount of product this week in one of her businesses on a FB promotion. Would I tell her how to do this? Not a chance; that is the side of her, I love as well and will let her lead in this regard.

 

I suppose that is what we need to find in our marriages and just make that work.


Great post #151

[BobBKK]

20 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Cyclone Nargis, 130, 000 died. A major event in my wife's life as people in her street lost family etc. Her business shut down because of it, she then worked for a charity sending aid.

 

Lots of westerners would be blissfully unaware of the tragedy but still label Thais as ignorant because they dont know much about 9/11.

 

 

Yes I agree your wife only cares if it affects her. That's the point, now let's move on?

[Lucky mike]

10 hours ago, timendres said:

Thai people are not all immature children. I have met serious business leaders who take their careers to impressive lengths. I have met deep thinkers, those who can discuss politics, and those who strive for greatness. I have met Thai women who, like their western counterparts, are happy to have discussions about their relationships and work on deeper understanding and harmony.

 

But, in general, Thais live and breath the motto "sanook sanook, sabay sabay". They live in the moment. They know troubles and confrontations will arise, but they prefer to ignore this fact until it is unavoidable, then get past them with the least amount of difficulty or loss of face. So they can get back to living "the life". Frankly, I believe this is what appeals to most expats who really enjoy living here. So why fight it?

 

The west industrialized the world, they built the Internet, they put men on the moon - they are all dead in the long run.

 

Thais gave us Jasmine rice and playing water and could restart the dead heart of an old man - still all dead in the long run.

 

OP try to understand to whom you are married, and learn to see the confrontations coming before they arrive, then dodge them like Neo dodging bullets in The Matrix. Be the man, lead, and let your wife know how much you love how she follows. Leading is not dictating. It is knowing what she needs before she does, and delivering it. Any problems, they are always due to the shortcomings of the leader. Accept it, correct it, move on.

Well said !

[Jonah Tenner]

15 hours ago, timendres said:

OP try to understand to whom you are married, and learn to see the confrontations coming before they arrive, then dodge them like Neo dodging bullets in The Matrix. Be the man, lead, and let your wife know how much you love how she follows. Leading is not dictating. It is knowing what she needs before she does, and delivering it. Any problems, they are always due to the shortcomings of the leader. Accept it, correct it, move on.

 

[Jonah Tenner]

5 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Yes I agree your wife only cares if it affects her

As do you, and in fact everybody else...

[Kenny202]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:18 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

Entirely normal, most Thais see 'discussion' as 'confrontation'. It isn't in their culture so don't try to do it.

You're the man, your word is law, her duty is to serve you. No discussion, end of.

 

After 10 years of marriage to a Thai, took me a year to understand discussion causes problems.

Now, no discussion and no problems.

 

Had a discussion with my 20 yo step daughter this morning, I said 'do the washing up', she said, 'no'

So I picked her up carried her to the kitchen sink, put her down in front of the sink, and she did it.

End of 'discussion'.

When I first started reading your posts a few years ago I thought you were taking the pss. The longer I am here the more I understand what you are saying is true. I am very lucky now in as much as I have a very submissive thoughtful and caring girl...no tantrums etc but still very much a child....and unfortunately they have to be treated as such in many ways. (No you have had enough candy or coke or 1litre sugar milk tea drinks for one day)

[Kenny202]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:18 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

Entirely normal, most Thais see 'discussion' as 'confrontation'. It isn't in their culture so don't try to do it.

You're the man, your word is law, her duty is to serve you. No discussion, end of.

 

After 10 years of marriage to a Thai, took me a year to understand discussion causes problems.

Now, no discussion and no problems.

 

Had a discussion with my 20 yo step daughter this morning, I said 'do the washing up', she said, 'no'

So I picked her up carried her to the kitchen sink, put her down in front of the sink, and she did it.

End of 'discussion'.

I lived with my first Thai "wife" for 3 years and had many of the difficulties you had and worse. I justified my relationship as you did. 90% bliss and 10% nightmare. Unfortunately as time went on the bad overtook the good....and in my experience they just don't learn. Mine was violent too to the point where it was becoming dangerous. Same same threatening to leave, pack her bags every other week. We also had a child. She added no value in anyway to the relationship. Greedy, jealous, needy, lazy, entitled and selfish beyond belief. Infact she had every seven deadly sin. I would also try and "discuss". I could never understand why she just wouldn't ever see my point....and then I realised she knew she was in the wrong and therefore wasn't interested in my point or discussion. She just wanted what she wanted. I think by the way we are probably generalising about Isaan women here.  

 

When my son was about 5 months old she packed her bag and this time actually did leave. Got on a bus. 2 hours out and she was begging to come back. Nope. I had a new GF in two days and her screaming and ranting for 3 months. She sent my son back after 2 days by the way. So after about 4 months I relented and took her back. One more try so my son may have a normal mum and dad. Within 2 days she was back trying on exactly the same stuff but worse. I lingered on for another 3 months until she did exactly the same thing. Packed her bag and moved out.....for a few hours. The gate was firmly locked thereafter and a nightmare ensued for the next three months. My son is with me and it is the best thing Ive ever done. The moral of this story...and while it is a shame there is a child involved...persevere for now...but don't waste the rest of your life hoping things will get better if they deteriorate further. I would sit mine down and tell her what was going to happen. It never made a lick of difference. Many of these people are virtually abandoned when they are children...mom or dad or both go to the city to work. See the child 6 monthly. The child is left with anyone. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. So many of these women are just emotionally broken....and you can't fix em 

[Kenny202]

On 5/29/2018 at 9:50 AM, BobBKK said:

The point is a SEA cyclone is 'local' and Berlin wall, 911 were WORLD events. My English teacher did not know who Nelson Mandala was and the 20 year old son of a friend asked me the other day who my favourite 'superhero' was. Gob nai kala.

I am amazed she knew where Myanmar was! I knew a 62 yo english teacher didn't know Cambodia was virtually next door to his wife's home town of Ubon and asked me if Australia was up or down. They have no concern past what is affecting them today or their next meal. As stated they are taught (or not taught?) to do this

[Kenny202]

On 5/29/2018 at 1:53 PM, jenny2017 said:

That other 10 to 15% of the time when there are problems they are usually pretty minor (or at least they should be). The problem I have is that what should be a minor problem that we can easily discuss and move past ends up turning into this dramatic scene with me shouting at her and her ignoring me or trying to undercut me with some snide remark. She can't just have a discussion. There is no self-reflection. There is no improving the relationship. It just gets ugly till the next day then she apologizes and I have to apologize and it's fine till the next argument. The other problem is that every time there is the slightest problem she says she wants a divorce. I would never even consider a divorce as to me these are minor problems that just need to be worked past. But she says she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce and if we didn't have a child we wouldn't have gotten married in the first place

 

  OP, may I be honest with you? You sound so selfish and not understanding basic cultural differences your wife grew up in. 

 

  I never raised my voice when I thought I had a problem with my wife because I know it's considered very impolite to be loud. 

 

That's why she comes with your so-called snide remarks, she just can't handle your behavior. 

 

You'd never "consider" a divorce, but she often mentions that she doesn't love you anymore? Have you ever thought that you are the one who caused some problems in the first place?

That doesn't sound like 10 to 15 % of your bad time, it's more vice versa.

 

  You should have known how Thais are before you married her. Best of luck trying to figure that out. 

  

I don't know what Thailand some of you guys come from....the notion of the quiet non confrontational demure Thai woman wanting to avoid conflict is a laugh! I think the point is she is probably instigating the conflict and most possibly starting the rage and violence. I have had a large cross section of Thai woman from bargirls to doctors, teachers etc and I can say that yes the more educated Thais may be this way...but the bar girl types or at the least uneducated village Thai women seem to love violent abusive confrontation and drama. It's almost like they are asking for a hiding. They will have an excuse to take photos of themselves draped over something crying, arm extended for a selfie to post on facebook and then count the "likes". Yep sure, if you get an uneducated girl or a whore you probably only have yourself to blame, but so many of us here have been down this path whether we admit it or not. You buy the land you get the Indians. Unfortunately these women can act like angels sometimes for years before the real "her" starts presenting itself. By this time you are emotionally and often financially committed and of course you will be looking for a solution.

I honestly believe now a real relationship with a girl who has worked in a bar is impossible. At some point she will be weighing up the benefits of living with you or going back to her previously perceived "glamorous" life and its very doubtful unless you are kicking the tin financially big time to her and her family you will be the winner. A big farang house and lifestyle is of no value to them apart from monetarily. They would rather be outside under a tree or in the bar eating som tam with their friends. Makeup, cellphones, fast (crap) food, facebook, showing off, drama shows and selfies are what they live for. 

 

You will avoid much of this with an educated woman. But don't expect to get away with not paying the piper unless the woman is older and financially secure. In my experiences nurses, teachers etc have access to loans, and therefore bigger debts, of which they will expect you to "take care"

[Kenny202]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:42 PM, rumak said:

My two favorite quotes on this lovely forum:

 

1.  I can explain it to you but I can not understand it for you

 

2.  No woman No kwai     

Hahahahahaha. Now my 2 favourites 5555

[Kenny202]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:45 PM, JLCrab said:

 

So MJ I deal long-term with 2 Thai females. They have never met. Neither speaks English. One from Isaan. One from Bangkok. Yet they think exactly the same:

 

Each, if they ask for 1000 baht and I say OK, they quickly say 2000 baht! thinking, if I said OK to 1000, that means that they should have asked for more.
 

Thats an Asian thing...not a Thai woman thing. Even buying something in the classifieds. I have learnt never agree to a price to easilly

[Kenny202]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:14 PM, peterb17 said:

Why does everything seem to come down to money?  

 

A 1000 baht - means nothing to you ( I presume) to someone from Isaan - quite a lot.

 

So what has your post to do with sorting out the OP with dealing with his marriage problems ? 

 

I'm sure his 1000 baht is important to him. I have found completely the opposite.

1000 baht seems to be nothing to them, unless coming out of their own pocket. 

 

These Isaan people love to use the word share...but do not seem to realise sharing is a 2 way street. Not all but many expect to give absolutely zero, but want everything. I'm poor and you farang lucky. Gimme gimme gimme. Entitled. If you don't mindlessly give them everything you are Kee neow. I always delight in asking them what are they bringing to the party ? Blank gormless stare 

[Kenny202]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:18 PM, 55Jay said:

When she defaults to "I want a divorce", that's the nuclear option.  She does that to "win", controlling you, knowing you'll back down.

 

Man up and call her bluff.  Then walk away without shouting.  

 

You rebuff the control freak nonsense and put her shit back on her.  It also reduces the chance she will try to exploit this angle again.  She'll roll back to lovey dovey as usual.

 

Or, she really doesn't love you, mate, and her calls for divorce is really real.   You need pull your head out and get to grips with that possibility.  And quit this old fashioned preciousness about your marriage.   You could waste 20 good years being polite and living your life to the expectations of your parents and grandparents.    If there's some religious sub-text to this dogmatic view of marriage, then good luck with that. 

A lot of this man up stuff just doesn't work. With mine I tried everything and I have dealt with some nutters in my work life and 5 children back home. Explosive rage...if I would walk away she would actually get worse. Go in the bedroom lock the door she would be trying to kick it in. If I would go out she would break things in the home. If I would ignore her she would be outside screaming or posting our life all over facebook. It would go on for three days. I never found a way to deal with it. Sure I pushed her buttons sometimes but many times it was her all alone...and it sometimes appeared to me she was so far in the wrong and her behaviour so bad it was almost like she wanted me to belt her so I was as far in the wrong as she was. This was a woman who tried to kill my dog because she saw me pat it. I still don't know why I persevered so long and I am still convinced she did some sort of black magic with me.   

 

I have had many since her and now I don't compromise or inconvenience myself in anyway. I have become totally intolerant of any dramatic, childish or selfish sht. I am still considerate and caring to a point but you just can not give these woman an inch. Mae Joe gave me this very good advice a few years ago which at the time sounded harsh.

Don't give an inch, never apologise, never compromise. I pay...my way. It is not necessarily a Thai woman thing either as much as an Asian thing. Asian people have many good qualities but empathy, charity or kindness are not some of them. Acts of charity are viewed 2 ways...

You are stupid or you will want something in return.

 

If you are being reasonable, treating them well and they aren't happy. Move on. There is a queue of about 5 million long of girls waiting for YOU hansum man 

[Kenny202]

On 5/30/2018 at 6:47 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

Not about which century we live, but in which country we live.

In Thailand (and most of the world including Asia, Africa, Middle East, India, China) a woman is the property of a man.

If you want the woman to own you, go and live in a white country.

 

Why are white people such bigots?

Your culture is the minority in the world, stop trying to tell everyone else how to live.

You'll all be living under Sharia Law soon, then see how far your virtue signalling gets you.

Totally agree. Those romantic politically correct notions are just not the reality here and in fact have diminished society back home. Marriage and relationships there have never been worse. Its a pack dog mentality here and women expect and want you to be the alpha. If you don't take this role you will be considered stupid and weak. I don't mean you have to belt them but you don't have to lay down and be a door mat either. Thais are opportunists. The trick is not to give them opportunities. It is nature and the way things are supposed to be.

 

Men are from Mars, women are from Venus and Thai women are from three galaxies away  

[rumak]

59 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

have had many since her and now I don't compromise or inconvenience myself in anyway. I have become totally intolerant of any dramatic, childish or selfish sht. I am still considerate and caring to a point but you just can not give these woman an inch. Mae Joe gave me this very good advice a few years ago which at the time sounded harsh.

give them an inch.......and they think they're a RULER

[totally thaied up]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I honestly believe now a real relationship with a girl who has worked in a bar is impossible. At some point she will be weighing up the benefits of living with you or going back to her previously perceived "glamorous" life and its very doubtful unless you are kicking the tin financially big time to her and her family you will be the winner. A big farang house and lifestyle is of no value to them apart from monetarily. They would rather be outside under a tree or in the bar eating som tam with their friends. Makeup, cellphones, fast (crap) food, facebook, showing off, drama shows and selfies are what they live for. 

 

You will avoid much of this with an educated woman. But don't expect to get away with not paying the piper unless the woman is older and financially secure. In my experiences nurses, teachers etc have access to loans, and therefore bigger debts, of which they will expect you to "take care"

I think this post sums a lot up for a lot of guys here, but they do not want to admit to it.

 

I recently saw one friends post on my wife's FB timeline. It was drama to the extent she has 300 likes, and all her friends tell her to take her farang husbands house and money and come back to the massage shop and eat somtum and look for another sucker, as 'there were plenty of farang suckers in Thai.'

 

The fight was over another girl sitting next to him at a table while eating out, and she just smiled at him.

 

There was nothing to it as I was with him. I told my wife what happened and she just told me, it was just 'Isaan Girl' antics. I did not know that she came from a bar but my wife told me she worked bar for a long time, came North to CM and then worked massage and found her current farang husband.

 

It was this major fight, just over another person being friendly. She went off her nut for three days saying he was going to leave her for another woman and sent duck face selfies to everyone with false tears behind her eyes.

 

Thai TV soap drama at its best. 

 

It was a confrontation for no reason.  For them, it is drama and how can they milk the cows. We are the cows by the way.

 

That is so true about teachers and nurses; most I have seen have all been married once before, a kid or two and massive debts to the banks. I am just too sick most days now to put up with shit like this and like most of us here, had dealt with this a few times before. The moment anyone tries to pull this on me, it is the door. My current wife has not yet shown the 'crazy's' after two years together. Still, I gather I have not yet enough time to say this may or may not happen to me, but it has been a good start. Time will only tell.

[55Jay]

5 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

A lot of this man up stuff just doesn't work. With mine I tried everything and I have dealt with some nutters in my work life and 5 children back home. Explosive rage...if I would walk away she would actually get worse. Go in the bedroom lock the door she would be trying to kick it in. If I would go out she would break things in the home. If I would ignore her she would be outside screaming or posting our life all over facebook. It would go on for three days. I never found a way to deal with it. Sure I pushed her buttons sometimes but many times it was her all alone...and it sometimes appeared to me she was so far in the wrong and her behaviour so bad it was almost like she wanted me to belt her so I was as far in the wrong as she was. This was a woman who tried to kill my dog because she saw me pat it. I still don't know why I persevered so long and I am still convinced she did some sort of black magic with me.   

 

I have had many since her and now I don't compromise or inconvenience myself in anyway. I have become totally intolerant of any dramatic, childish or selfish sht. I am still considerate and caring to a point but you just can not give these woman an inch. Mae Joe gave me this very good advice a few years ago which at the time sounded harsh.

Don't give an inch, never apologise, never compromise. I pay...my way. It is not necessarily a Thai woman thing either as much as an Asian thing. Asian people have many good qualities but empathy, charity or kindness are not some of them. Acts of charity are viewed 2 ways...

You are stupid or you will want something in return.

 

If you are being reasonable, treating them well and they aren't happy. Move on. There is a queue of about 5 million long of girls waiting for YOU hansum man 

Good post.   I did wonder if you pushed back on the cliche about "manning up" though.  Alternate is "Cowboy up", maybe more of a Yank expression.

 

As you progressed through your experience, you eventually mustered up the gumption to punt your previous door-kicking drama queen to the curb.   That certainly qualifies as "Cowboy'ing Up".  ? 

 

Which was the point I was making toward the OP.... to stop putting his marriage on such a high pedestal.   Divorce sucks, and it's a stigma.  Kids suffer, but they also suffer being exposed to the constant up and down roller coaster ride of bickering, fighting parents.  If one side is always jockeying to "win" an argument by shutting it down with the threat of divorce, eventually somebody needs to quit pretending and take care of business. 

[BritManToo]

Sometimes I think I'd like to try marriage, then I read all these posts and I think, "Maybe next year".

Until then, one night at a time.

 

@55Jay

I liked having two parents, didn't really care if they fought, as long as they didn't hit me, it was all good.

[MartinJ]

On 5/29/2018 at 9:27 AM, phetpeter said:

Me too! 3 times! gave them a child, problem was having them learn to drive and buying them a car, The giving of more freedom was a bad mistake! Still good friends all 3 came to my wedding of with Thai wife and they are all friends still! 

 

Had you tried chaining them up?

[MartinJ]

On 5/29/2018 at 5:52 PM, Lacessit said:

The OP is making a big mistake by shouting.

I talk to my GF in basic Thai, and she talks to me in basic English. I can't recall ever having raised my voice to her. We can make each other laugh with the language barrier.

She thinks she is lucky to have me, and I think I'm lucky to have her. She is older than the average trophy wife. Very street-smart.

We've both been round the block a couple of times. Perhaps experience counts for something.

 

As you get older choices made should be better.
I've learnt plenty from past mistakes