do you live in the past or future

[MaeJoMTB]

12 hours ago, opalred said:

common sense will tell you/ we can only see the distance of the last telescope 

the new telescopes in space soon will see another trillion light years away/  for another trillion suns and planets 

but some people live in the past and believe there is a back fence  like there own  yard /just past our solar system

or as past thought next town

Assuming it's real, and we aren't just living in a computer simulation.

One of the 3 explanations for Newton's Laws appearing not to work, 1 Dark Matter, 2 MoND, 3 The Matrix

[canuckamuck]

I love the tech, despite much of it is being used to spy on us. But the politics have us circling the drain. The future is very dark indeed.

I would take a return to old tech if could have the sanity of the 50's again.

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

My phone is smarter than I am. 

Hopefully you are joking...

[1FinickyOne]

Something to be said for living in the present moment. 

[Brunolem]

8 hours ago, swissie said:

 The reason for this basic "standstill" since 1920 may well be that humanity has explored everything that is fundamentally "explorable" within Physics known to us.
The new frontier, aimed to explain "Black-Matter" and "Black-Energy" in the universe, that may not be explainable by "Physics" as we know it

I see two main reasons for the lack of scientific progress since, say, the end of WWII.

 

The first is the privatization of science, meaning that many scientists are employed by conglomerates much more interested in the financial outcome of their work, than in a Nobel prize.

Thus, we get botox, 3D video games or financial derivatives, all engineered by brilliant minds, instead of new theories...in other words, instead of real progress.

 

The second reason is that scientists, especially physicists, have become enamored with maths and computers, to the point of enslavement.

As a particularly rebellious member of the Physics Forum, I have had some serious confrontations, but finally managed to have them admit that, yes, too many physicists were obsessed with maths, and hence computers with which they can toy almost without limits, while never coming up with anything tangible.

 

This obsession has led the scientific community to get stuck with the ridiculous string theory and its ten or eleven dimensions...because the maths requires the extra dimensions to hold this BS together!

 

Dark matter and dark energy are probably a similar issue...maths requires them...

 

The problem is that maths are a tool and one can do a lot of things with a tool, depending on how one uses it.

 

Physicists have forgotten that thinking and experimenting comes first, and then maths helps packaging the finished product, not the other way round.

 

A giant like Michael Faraday had never been to school and had no knowledge of maths...and yet he discovered more all by himself than all the physicists of the last half-century put together!

Even Einstein was not good enough with maths to put his theories in the appropriate shape, and requested assistance from others.

 

Needless to say that none of these scientists had a computer, not even a calculator!

 

As contradictory as it may seem, computers may in fact have contributed to slow down our progress, making us lazy or distracting us, or both.

 

 

[Skeptic7]

Actually live in the present...with a fond appreciation for the past, while totally embracing, enjoying and marveling at all the great tech, science and advanced knowledge and discoveries...

 

...and of course looking forward to as much of the future as I can possibly get! 

 

My best friend, who happens to be my brother, resides almost exclusively in the past. And he's happy there! 

[Odysseus123]

19 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I see two main reasons for the lack of scientific progress since, say, the end of WWII.

 

The first is the privatization of science, meaning that many scientists are employed by conglomerates much more interested in the financial outcome of their work, than in a Nobel prize.

Thus, we get botox, 3D video games or financial derivatives, all engineered by brilliant minds, instead of new theories...in other words, instead of real progress.

 

The second reason is that scientists, especially physicists, have become enamored with maths and computers, to the point of enslavement.

As a particularly rebellious member of the Physics Forum, I have had some serious confrontations, but finally managed to have them admit that, yes, too many physicists were obsessed with maths, and hence computers with which they can toy almost without limits, while never coming up with anything tangible.

 

This obsession has led the scientific community to get stuck with the ridiculous string theory and its ten or eleven dimensions...because the maths requires the extra dimensions to hold this BS together!

 

Dark matter and dark energy are probably a similar issue...maths requires them...

 

The problem is that maths are a tool and one can do a lot of things with a tool, depending on how one uses it.

 

Physicists have forgotten that thinking and experimenting comes first, and then maths helps packaging the finished product, not the other way round.

 

A giant like Michael Faraday had never been to school and had no knowledge of maths...and yet he discovered more all by himself than all the physicists of the last half-century put together!

Even Einstein was not good enough with maths to put his theories in the appropriate shape, and requested assistance from others.

 

Needless to say that none of these scientists had a computer, not even a calculator!

 

As contradictory as it may seem, computers may in fact have contributed to slow down our progress, making us lazy or distracting us, or both.

 

 

Hence Jared Diamond's controversial thesis in'Guns,Germs and Steel" that the average New Guinean hunter/gatherer uses far more brain power than modern civilizations.They have to in order to survive.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Odysseus123

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Hence Dimond's controversial thesis in'Guns,Germs and Steel" that the average New Guinean hunter/gatherer uses far more brain power than modern civilizations.They have to in order to survive.

And hunter gatherers enjoyed more free time than us, slaves of the self-destructing consumer society!

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

And hunter gatherers enjoyed more free time than us, slaves of the self-destructing consumer society!

Time is the essence,I think..we have chopped time into ever more smaller pieces and now we are like rats on a wheel...chasing time..

 

The great myths, legends and religions of all societies were created because people had the time to do so...whether verbally,cut into clay tablets or a stylus on papyrus.

 

I once had the opportunity to examine the Captain's journal of a very famous British ship.There it all was..beautiful copperplate writing..all produced on a storm tossed little ship.Amazing.

[bannork]

I don't think Thailand lets me living in anything but the present. The luxurious growth of nature means there are daily changes in flowers, plants, trees.

The sun comes out, everything is bathed in brilliance and then a cloud appears and I have to scurry to get out of the rain.

Driving my motorbike or pick-up how can I live in anything but the present? I'd  soon be dead if I wasn't in the here and now.

Having grandchildren keeps you in the present too. They're changing daily, starting to crawl, utter semi-words.

Musically though I'm in the past, in the 60s and 70s with only occcasional excursions to more modern times. But then musical is eternal. People still listen to Beethoven and he is long gone.

This thread got me thinking of the old saying of how time goes slowly when you're bored but shoots past when you're having fun. Wouldn't it be so much better if it was the other way round? 

Edited May 30, 2018 by bannork

[Brunolem]

55 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Time is the essence,I think..we have chopped time into ever more smaller pieces and now we are like rats on a wheel...chasing time..

 

The great myths, legends and religions of all societies were created because people had the time to do so...whether verbally,cut into clay tablets or a stylus on papyrus.

Indeed, the international excuse for not doing something is "I don't have time for that!".

 

Also interesting is the fact that people generally use this excuse when it comes to do things like reading or doing some physical exercice, much less when it comes to twitting or facebooking for which time is always available, including during working hours!

 

This time, or lack of time, frenzy is deeply connected to our choice of giving priority to quantity over quality...one of the great disasters of our civilization.

 

That unfortunate choice in turn was made possible by the abundance of cheap energy, especially oil.

 

Many observers think that with the end of oil, later this century, time will somehow slow down and that natural rhythms will reassert themselves.

 

Unfortunately, I won't be here to see that...

[Golden Triangle]

Yesterday I was living in the past,

 

Today I am living in the present,

 

Tomorrow (if I live) I'll be living in the future,

 

I get to do that every day, or so it seems 

[VBF]

Mr Lombardo (and many who covered this song) had it right

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by VBF

[Odysseus123]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Indeed, the international excuse for not doing something is "I don't have time for that!".

 

Also interesting is the fact that people generally use this excuse when it comes to do things like reading or doing some physical exercice, much less when it comes to twitting or facebooking for which time is always available, including during working hours!

 

This time, or lack of time, frenzy is deeply connected to our choice of giving priority to quantity over quality...one of the great disasters of our civilization.

 

That unfortunate choice in turn was made possible by the abundance of cheap energy, especially oil.

 

Many observers think that with the end of oil, later this century, time will somehow slow down and that natural rhythms will reassert themselves.

 

Unfortunately, I won't be here to see that...

Yes and another thing to contemplate..

 

Many of the great novels of the 19th century were not originally published in book form but in installments.These novels included such celebrated authors as Tolstoy,Thackeray,Dickens and Trollope and many others..

 

Heck,even the great national epic of Poland-the 'Fire and Sword' trilogy by Henrik Sienkiewisz came out on a monthly basis thus giving readers plenty of time to read,digest and discuss what was happening.

 

It can be argued that the population of 1900 was far more culturally literate than their counterparts in 2018.

 

Surely no-one is pretending that the internet has facilitated cultural literacy in the West.That wicket went for a duck a decade ago.

[VBF]

39 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes and another thing to contemplate..

 

Many of the great novels of the 19th century were not originally published in book form but in installments.These novels included such celebrated authors as Tolstoy,Thackeray,Dickens and Trollope and many others..

 

Heck,even the great national epic of Poland-the 'Fire and Sword' trilogy by Henrik Sienkiewisz came out on a monthly basis thus giving readers plenty of time to read,digest and discuss what was happening.

 

It can be argued that the population of 1900 was far more culturally literate than their counterparts in 2018.

 

Surely no-one is pretending that the internet has facilitated cultural literacy in the West.That wicket went for a duck a decade ago.

Not entirely. The internet has allowed access to information far more expeditiously than was the case before its existence.

 

For example, I am familiar with most of the authors you mentioned, except that I knew nothing of "'Fire and Sword' trilogy by Henrik Sienkiewisz"

 

I looked it up in my favourite search engine, and not only discovered what it was all about, but also discovered that (with respect @Odysseus123) you had misspelled the author's name.

It should be "'Fire and Sword' trilogy by Henryk Sienkiewicz

 

Please be aware that I'm NOT trying to score points but I am  pointing out that the internet has just increased my cultural literacy by a very small amount.

 

BUT it's MOST important to add that I could have found that out by visiting a library, but that would have involved considerably more effort on my part. This is one small example of how the internet can improve our knowledge of many things, cultural and otherwiser if we use it as a tool to seek such knowledge.

 

 

[Odysseus123]

9 minutes ago, VBF said:

Not entirely. The internet has allowed access to information far more expeditiously than was the case before its existence.

 

For example, I am familiar with most of the authors you mentioned, except that I knew nothing of "'Fire and Sword' trilogy by Henrik Sienkiewisz"

 

I looked it up in my favourite search engine, and not only discovered what it was all about, but also discovered that (with respect @Odysseus123) you had misspelled the author's name.

It should be "'Fire and Sword' trilogy by Henryk Sienkiewicz

 

Please be aware that I'm NOT trying to score points but I am  pointing out that the internet has just increased my cultural literacy by a very small amount.

 

BUT it's MOST important to add that I could have found that out by visiting a library, but that would have involved considerably more effort on my part. This is one small example of how the internet can improve our knowledge of many things, cultural and otherwiser if we use it as a tool to seek such knowledge.

 

 

No-it is I that "increased" your knowledge-by reading the three books.

 

 

You fingers merely did the walking-you,have,in actual fact learned nothing except a spelling mistake.

 

So..tell me the plot of 'Little Dorrit' without recourse to the internet.

 

A classic Google fraud.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Odysseus123

[VBF]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

No-it is I that "increased" your knowledge-by reading the three books.

 

 

You fingers merely did the walking-you,have,in actual fact learned nothing except a spelling mistake.

Yes, you informed me of the existence of the trilogy but my point is that the internet can increase knowledge, if you think of it (in this instance) as a vast library and bookshop rolled into one.

Were I to want to read the trilogy, i could have it in my hand this minute as it's available to buy and download on the internet. 

 

My interests are more musical than literary but I've lost count of the amount and variety of music that I've discovered and then researched on line.

 

As such and as i said, the internet is a tool to acquire knowledge far more expeditiously than was the case before its existence, and like any tool, one needs to wish and learn to use it correctly.

[StreetCowboy]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I love the tech, despite much of it is being used to spy on us. But the politics have us circling the drain. The future is very dark indeed.

I would take a return to old tech if could have the sanity of the 50's again.

Mutually Assured Destruction and all that good old fashioned common sense

[soalbundy]

I thought about it yesterday, am not so sure today, will tell you tomorrow.

[Odysseus123]

22 minutes ago, VBF said:

Yes, you informed me of the existence of the trilogy but my point is that the internet can increase knowledge, if you think of it (in this instance) as a vast library and bookshop rolled into one.

Were I to want to read the trilogy, i could have it in my hand this minute as it's available to buy and download on the internet. 

 

My interests are more musical than literary but I've lost count of the amount and variety of music that I've discovered and then researched on line.

 

As such and as i said, the internet is a tool to acquire knowledge far more expeditiously than was the case before its existence, and like any tool, one needs to wish and learn to use it correctly.

You have gained nothing.

 

The "tool" was the author and the facilitator was me posting about it.

 

You have not read Sienkiewisz, and you cannot tell me about the plot of 'Little Dorrit" (without recourse to the internet) either.

 

The only knowledge that you possess in this area is the skill to access a computer.

 

Your smug little reference to the spelling mistake shows this.

 

By the way what do you think of W.A Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante K.364?

(without recourse to the internet)-any new recordings that I should be paying attention to?

Edited May 30, 2018 by Odysseus123

[VBF]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

You have gained nothing.

 

The "tool" was the author and the facilitator was me posting about it.

 

You have not read Sienkiewisz, and you cannot tell me about the plot of 'Little Dorrit" (without recourse to the internet) either.

 

The only knowledge that you possess in this area is the skill to access a computer.

 

Your little smug reference to the spelling mistake shows this.

 

By the way what do you think of W.A Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante K.364?

(without recourse to the internet)

You're (presumably intentionally) smugly missing my point!

 

I know I've gained more from my online researches than I can even quantify!

 

I have little knowledge of Classical Literature nor music - my interests are what is often referred to as popular music - particularly the varieties of  Jazz, Blues and Rock but also, the progression of West Indian music.

 

I recall from schooldays readings of Dickens (whose work i read 45 years ago and only to pass exams) is that Little Dorrit was about a child born in prison and her subsequent adventures. I could well be wrong but it's not something that interests me. 

 

Have a good life!

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

You're (presumably intentionally) smugly missing my point!

 

I know I've gained more from my online researches than I can even quantify!

 

I have little knowledge of Classical Literature nor music - my interests are what is often referred to as popular music - particularly the varieties of  Jazz, Blues and Rock but also, the progression of West Indian music.

 

I recall from schooldays readings of Dickens (whose work i read 45 years ago and only to pass exams) is that Little Dorrit was about a child born in prison and her subsequent adventures. I could well be wrong but it's not something that interests me. 

 

Have a good life!

Same to you.

[canuckamuck]

27 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Mutually Assured Destruction and all that good old fashioned common sense

Well that never went away really.

[Brunolem]

27 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

No-it is I that "increased" your knowledge-by reading the three books.

 

 

You fingers merely did the walking-you,have,in actual fact learned nothing except a spelling mistake.

 

So..tell me the plot of 'Little Dorrit' without recourse to the internet.

 

A classic Google fraud.

First, a very small minority uses internet in order to get knowledge, the vast majority being busy with porn, social medias and stupid apps!

 

Then, to many others, internet is like the "fast food" of knowledge...go there, spend a few minutes getting a superficial information, and go back to more pressing matters: porn, social medias...

 

Nothing in depth...who actually spend hours reading about a single subject on internet, save for students?

 

Having said that, knowledge a century or so ago went beyond theory, people not only knew how the things they used were working, but they generally were also able to fix them!

 

Men could fix most machines, while women could repair clothes, shoes and so on.

 

Today, we have people who can type with 2 fingers, instead of all fingers as in the past, without the slightest understanding of how the machine they spend all their time with actually works!

 

Most of them don't even know what electricity is!

 

And they can't and don't fix anything since everything is junk...like the food!

[Odysseus123]

Just now, canuckamuck said:

Well that never went away really.

True.

 

But now it seems to be WWEYD.

 

(We Will Ensure Your Destruction)

[Brunolem]

32 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Mutually Assured Destruction and all that good old fashioned common sense

This is cherrypicking in all its splendor!

 

MAD was a situation which actually still exists.

Yet, there are many other means of Destruction than nuclear missiles, and we have made, and are still making, a good use of them!

 

I'd rather have Earth, which is my home, as it was in 1950 than as it is now, on its way to complete destruction, at least as far as harboring life is concerned.

 

I'd rather eat the food of 1950 than that of today!

 

At that time, you didn't have to pay twice or more the price in order to eat organic food, because all the food was organic!

 

What the blind supporters of technology do not understand is that for each positive effect, there is a negative effect...a kind of Yin Yang thing...

 

For example, we have cheap and convenient plastic, but we also have dying oceans and plastic particles in the water we drink, not to mention the associated illnesses such as cancers and the likes...

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

First, a very small minority uses internet in order to get knowledge, the vast majority being busy with porn, social medias and stupid apps!

 

Then, to many others, internet is like the "fast food" of knowledge...go there, spend a few minutes getting a superficial information, and go back to more pressing matters: porn, social medias...

 

Nothing in depth...who actually spend hours reading about a single subject on internet, save for students?

 

Having said that, knowledge a century or so ago went beyond theory, people not only knew how the things they used were working, but they generally were also able to fix them!

 

Men could fix most machines, while women could repair clothes, shoes and so on.

 

Today, we have people who can type with 2 fingers, instead of all fingers as in the past, without the slightest understanding of how the machine they spend all their time with actually works!

 

Most of them don't even know what electricity is!

 

And they can't and don't fix anything since everything is junk...like the food!

Yes.

A classic case where 'facility' is equated to knowledge and the downside of the internet.A sort of gigantic Dunning-Kruger effect without ameliorating benefits.

 

The other day I made a wonderful discovery.In my modest sized Australian rural town I discovered a 'Workingman's Institute' established in 1892.Presumably people after a long days work would gather and after a bit of a chat discuss Darwin,Marx,Adam Smith or Herbert Spencer and the latest topic of the day..

 

Now you have to virtually kick their descendants in the teeth to get them off 'Angry Birds' or 'Candy Crush'.

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Hopefully you are joking...

Permit me to doubt there are many people around that can actually use 100% of the capabilities of a smartphone. Just as there are quite a few people around who don't know how to change a flat tire on a car.

I was somewhat gobsmacked today seeing a Thai chick with TWO smartphones in her back pockets. I mean, what on earth does anyone need two of them for?

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Permit me to doubt there are many people around that can actually use 100% of the capabilities of a smartphone. Just as there are quite a few people around who don't know how to change a flat tire on a car.

I was somewhat gobsmacked today seeing a Thai chick with TWO smartphones in her back pockets. I mean, what on earth does anyone need two of them for?

Two farang 'husbands'?

or..

One Thai pimp and many farang 'husbands'

or

One Thai 'brother' and many farang 'husbands'

 

So the smart phone makes you smart,eh?

 

Does a shovel make you a ditch digger?

Edited May 30, 2018 by Odysseus123

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I love the tech, despite much of it is being used to spy on us. But the politics have us circling the drain. The future is very dark indeed.

I would take a return to old tech if could have the sanity of the 50's again.

Erm - Senator Joe McCarthy was part of the sanity of the 50's. I must confess to a deja vu feeling with Trump and his supporters.