Rising water hamper efforts to rescue boys missing in Chiang Rai cave

[CGW]

1 hour ago, neeray said:

"Sand bar". There are lots of knowledgeable people on here that could explain this better than me but nobody offered so I will try. Probably the natural flow of water drops sand in a given spot, thus, it creates a natural sand bar. This is possibly where the 13 are.

Created by the "movement" of the water, be it tidal or in this case rain/floods

[0815]

3 hours ago, NextStationBangkok said:

 

Warning says July-Nov for flood warning. But everyone know monsoon has already started and raining heavily.

 

Coach to be blamed for bringing these innocent boys to cave.

The excuse of this irresponsible acting "coach" may be: The sign tells floodwarning starting from July, but we went there in June.
Tragedies like this will happen as long as people don't be held /don't feel responsible for what they did.
In a few months or even weeks the next will probably run there and get in trouble only to post: We have visited this place and made some selfies.
Hopefully the young boys will be rescued and will fully recover - and learn...

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, SABloke said:

Right...because no one was doing anything before you arrived back ? He's so far up his own arse - it's pathetic really.

Yes, that's what PM's/presidents do.

 

If they don't show or say something they get criticized for that.

[kingkenny]

Prayers are not going to save these kids, the rescuers are, prayers mean diddly squat.

 

I am not praying for these kids to get out safely, I am wishing and hoping they get out safely with a story to tell about their adventure.

[electric]

I imagine the kids would be quite terrified by this ordeal. The spot where they are waiting would be absolutely pitch black. So black, you literally can't see your hand 2 inches in front of your face.

 

That's really scary for most people that get the opportunity to temporarily experience it, but of course, then the lights come on again.

 

Here the kids most probably have flat torch batteries by now. It will take enormous self control for this group to keep their wits until rescued.

 

I hope there are some professional trauma counsellors on standby at the cave entrance.

 

Hang in there kids and coach.

 

 

[Psimbo]

Psychics and mediums deployed- that will fix it. How people believe this hokum in this day and age baffles me. 

 

If the Coach does come out alive he should be horse-whipped for stupidity.

 

Caving is a specialised dangerous sport and to go down in the wet season is pure suicide.

[basatop]

3 hours ago, johng said:

Why does the map show the cave at "Pattaya Beach" ? ?

because that place is called Pattaya Beach,go there and see, why?

[steve73]

I'm an ex-caver, and once got trapped around 50m inside the entrance due to an unseasonal rainstorm causing a flash flood which backed the water level to block the exit.  Nothing to do but find a higher chamber, climb up onto a  relatively stable location, and sit it out.  Our entire party switched off each of our lamps except one... and even this was only used momentarily every few minutes.  When you're in total darkness, other senses (eg. hearing) become super-sensitized, and what starts off as a trickle quickly becomes what sounds like a raging torrent.  In my case, the water level dropped back after just a few hours, and we could make our exit. 

 

Hopefully this group will also have found some higher chamber, and shut off all their unnecessary torches/smartphones except one used occasionally to provide just enough light to stop from panicking, although I do accept that after a few days panic will be much more difficult to control - combined with hunger.  They should have access to plenty of reasonably clean water dripping from the roof without needing to resort to the muddy stream-way.  But after more than 4 days, it's possible that all their torches are giving out, obviously depending on how many they started with....

 

The big danger after all this time is if they try to make their own escape, perhaps through a flooded passage that they believe is only short, and then get trapped further on in a much less safe location..  If one or two try, and don't return, the others may think they have succeeded and try to follow, only to get trapped themselves. 

 

All we can do is hope the rescuers are able to pump out the water (or enlarge the exit to allow it to drain faster).  With rain over a large catchment area (many 10's of sq km), it would be almost impossible to block it off from making it's way into the cave.  The probability of finding or enlarging a higher entrance is unlikely, without prior knowledge, since cave maps are not (or certainly weren't in my day) especially accurate in relation to above ground features.

 

Hopefully, they will keep sitting it out, until the water level drops significantly, or to rely on the rescue party (as long as they believe that a recue attempt is in progress).
 

[malibukid]

4 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Quote from the article above:

"In Bangkok, Ekkachai Taidecha, uncle of Bhakapon, applied yesterday for entry visas for a Thai rescue team, saying Thais should take over if US authorities continued to fail to act.

“If this accident happened in Thailand, Thai rescuers would be able to get the bodies within 12 hours, no matter how bad the weather was. They would not have to use a helicopter,” he said."

 

It has happened in Thailand, the rescue efforts are still ongoing. Or should the US authorities get involved?

 

U.S. Navy Seals are stationed nearby or on a carrier and could be used. their expertise is unquestionable.  it's the Thai governments call, wonder if assistance has been offered?

[robblok]

37 minutes ago, electric said:

I imagine the kids would be quite terrified by this ordeal. The spot where they are waiting would be absolutely pitch black. So black, you literally can't see your hand 2 inches in front of your face.

 

That's really scary for most people that get the opportunity to temporarily experience it, but of course, then the lights come on again.

 

Here the kids most probably have flat torch batteries by now. It will take enormous self control for this group to keep their wits until rescued.

 

I hope there are some professional trauma counsellors on standby at the cave entrance.

 

Hang in there kids and coach.

 

 

I have been in caves its really pitch black when there are no lights. I can only imagine how scared they are. I am not sure how cold it is in that cave but that could be a problem too. Drinking water is an other problem (maybe not)

[Megasin1]

3 hours ago, johng said:

Why does the map show the cave at "Pattaya Beach" ? ?

Pattaya Beach is the name given to a raised section of the floor in the cave. They are hoping that this is where they will find them.

[observer90210]

Its time to Stop arguing, to Stop trying to save face, to Stop the superstitions.....and ask help from rescue teams abroad...FAST !

Edited June 27, 2018 by observer90210

[stanleycoin]

lets hope for the best.

Hope they find them all alive soon and bring them all out

unharmed . 

Edited June 27, 2018 by stanleycoin

[Megasin1]

Ignoring safety signs and placing yourself in danger is not unique to Thailand, it's an international phenomenon, however in this particular instance it would have been best to request international assistance on Day 1. I hope that they find these kids alive and get them out alive and that they also get a move on.

[webfact]

Rescue teams battle high water in hunt for boys missing in Thai cave

By Chayut Setboonsarng

 

A soldier sits in the Tham Luang caves during a search for 12 members of an under-16 soccer team and their coach, in the northern province of Chiang Rai, Thailand, June 27, 2018. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun

 

CHIANG RAI, Thailand (Reuters) - Thai volunteers and military teams, including a navy SEAL unit, struggled through flood waters inside a cave on Wednesday in a search for a team of school boy soccer players missing since they set out to explore the complex on the weekend.

 

Rescue workers took turns pumping water from inside Tham Luang cave complex, which runs 10 km (6 miles) under a mountain in the northern province of Chiang Rai, but persistent heavy rain was compounding the difficulties.

 

"Last night, we worked non-stop in order to drain water out of the cave as much as possible," Major Buncha Duriyapan, commander of the 37th Military District in Chiang Rai, told Reuters.

 

The 12 boys, aged between 11 and 16, and their 25-year-old assistant coach, went missing on Saturday after soccer practice.

 

They planned to explore the cave, even though it is known to be prone to flooding in the rainy season, and had taken flashlights and some food, according to messages they exchanged.

 

But nothing has been heard of them and no sign found, apart from some footprints and marks left by their muddy hands near the cave entrance.

 

The search has dominated the news in Thailand since the 13 were confirmed as missing late on Saturday and increasingly distraught relatives and friends have been gathering in the mud and rain at the mouth of the cave.

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha said three foreign divers would join the search.

 

"I hope to have good news soon," he told reporters in Bangkok.

 

Chiang Rai Governor Narongsak Osottanakorn said rescue workers have identified three chimneys, or shafts, rising up from the roof of the cave to the open air on the mountain above and rescuers hoped to descend through one of them.

 

"We are planning to rappel down one but the opening is narrow," Narongsak said.

 

'MASSIVE AMOUNTS' OF WATER

Army officer Sergeant Kresada Wanaphum said the rising waters were the biggest problem and low oxygen levels hampered efforts to extract it.

 

"Water is the biggest challenge. There is a lot of debris and sand that gets stuck while pumping," Kresada told Reuters.

 

"We have to switch out units because there is not enough air in there," he added, before heading back into the cave.

 

A guide book to the caves of northern Thailand describes the Tham Luang cave as having an "impressive entrance chamber" leading to a marked path. It then describes the end of the path and the start of a series of chambers and boulders.

 

"This section of the cave has not been thoroughly explored. After a couple of hundred metres the cave reduces in size to a mud floored passage 2 m wide and 3 m high," writes Martin Ellis, author of 'The Caves ofThailand Volume 2'.

 

Vern Unsworth, a British cave explorer based in Chiang Rai who has joined the search, said a lot of water was seeping into the cave from two directions.

 

"There is a watershed inside, which is unusual, it means there is water coming in from two directions," Unsworth told Reuters.

 

"The biggest challenge is the water. Massive amounts."Nopparat Kantawong, the head coach of the team who did not attend practice on Saturday, said he was hopeful that the boys would stay strong and pull through.

"They won't abandon each other," Nopparat told reporters.

 

The boys had visited the cave several times before, he said.

 

(Additional reporting by Amy Sawitta Lefevre, Panarat Thepgumpanat and Pracha Hariraksapitak; Writing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre; Editing by Michael Perry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-27

[hakancnx]

4 hours ago, johng said:

Why does the map show the cave at "Pattaya Beach" ? ?

Probably because the locals call a beach like part of the river that. 

There is one with the same name in Chiang Rai. 

 

On on the other hand there seems not to be a river there....So no clue...

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by hakancnx

[webfact]

All-out efforts to find trapped young football team starts before dawn today 

By Thai PBS

 

 

As the search and rescue operations at the caves in Chiang Rai’s Mae Sai district entered the fifth day on Wednesday, the Royal Thai Air Force today flew in five  giant electric water pumps aboard another C130 Hercules transport plane to Chiang Rai to support as rescuers reporting the existing water pumps at the scene could not handle floodwater which continue to flow into the caves, disrupting the Navy Seal rescuers to reach the target place where they believed the football team might take shelter.

 

At the cabinet meeting chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan this morning, he reported the latest situation at the caves to  the cabinet ministers saying the operation faced difficulties from rains that caused water level in the caves to rise disrupting the rescuers to reach the place where the football team might be taking shelter.

 

He also said helicopters sent in to drop rescuers into holes by the mountain to reach the place from another side was also impossible due to rains and fog.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/efforts-find-trapped-young-football-team-starts-dawn-today/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-06-27

[Jingthing]

OK, I'm going to go there now.

Of course any and all human beings that aren't monsters hope this has a happy outcome.

Some are sending their prayers. Some think the prayers will help.

I don't. 

We have some "mediums" who have been saying the outcome will be bad. 

Some are saying that's throwing negative energy out there and hurting their chances. 

I don't think so but I also don't think they should be allowed anywhere near the stressed out families. 

So like I said, here goes.

It's easy to say now when multiple days have passed, but personally I had a really bad feeling about this from the start. 

I will be so happy to have those feelings proven wrong, but I reckon there are a lot more people having similar feelings now that feel it's not OK to voice that.

That seems irrational to me. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Jingthing

[webfact]

US sending disaster relief specialists and sailors from Hawaii to join search for footballers trapped in flooded Tham Luang cave, says supreme commander. /Bangkok Post sms

[sweatalot]

7 minutes ago, webfact said:

US sending disaster relief specialists and sailors from Hawaii to join search for footballers trapped in flooded Tham Luang cave, says supreme commander. /Bangkok Post sms

Hopefully they will not need to apply for a work permit

 

best wishes to the boys and their families

[dictater]

Makes me wonder if any professional or advanced hobbyist spelunker has been contacted. Hey Cave Man get up there. 

[basatop]

14 minutes ago, dictater said:

Makes me wonder if any professional or advanced hobbyist spelunker has been contacted. Hey Cave Man get up there. 

I subscribe also to this idea.I know some spelunkers,they are associated in clubs.They often organized rescue operations to help teams trapped

underground.It is very risky hobby,they have a lot of experience like nobody in Thailand.

[chickenslegs]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK, I'm going to go there now.

Of course any and all human beings that aren't monsters hope this has a happy outcome.

Some are sending their prayers. Some think the prayers will help.

I don't. 

We have some "mediums" who have been saying the outcome will be bad. 

Some are saying that's throwing negative energy out there and hurting their chances. 

I don't think so but I also don't think they should be allowed anywhere near the stressed out families. 

So like I said, here goes.

It's easy to say now when multiple days have passed, but personally I had a really bad feeling about this from the start. 

I will be so happy to have those feelings proven wrong, but I reckon there are a lot more people having similar feelings now that feel it's not OK to voice that.

That seems irrational to me. 

 

Hopefully, any negativity will be kept from the families and rescue teams, who need to have only positive thoughts and determination to get those boys out. 

 

So far as I can tell there is every reason to believe that the boys can have found a dry place with enough air and water to survive many days.

 

Seems there is a chance of reaching them from a sinkhole (or chimney) above the caves, but they are also working on other options, like pumping out water.

 

Anyone who does believe in the power of prayer should pray for no rain for a few days.

[Jingthing]

I think negative feelings could have an impact if it influenced the level of the rescue efforts but I as far as changing whats happening down in that cave to the boys and their one adult minder, neither negative feelings or hopes and prayers rationally make a lick of difference. Of course agree it's cruel to bother the families with anything but hope as long as there still is hope. 

 

I guess I brought this up because it seems its kind of a taboo to talk about how grim this looks now and I'm suggesting like many taboos, it's rather irrational. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Jingthing

[wcoast]

Rain was horrendous and continuous last night and this morning, stopping about noon. The mountain area above the cave has ominous rain clouds presently. The woman wanted to go so we ventured out at 12:30. I've been to this park site a few times previously over the years, it's not too far from my village.

 

Cars and large trucks from the power authority and various utilities etc lined the potholed road for a kilometer in either direction. The short road heading into the cave thick with mud from all the traffic. Many vehicles bringing donated food and such for the troops, rescue workers, logistics staff, police, security teams etc.

Many many people there to offer assistance of any sort as well as a large group of onlookers. We even saw the two Thai Yai sisters as we walked out who we regularly visit on evenings in Mae Sai for leg and foot massage on the street. They have a relative trapped inside.

It's kinda miserable conditions, and the clouds opened up again as we started our walk out, the rain is a real PITA.

The area is somewhat of a giant mud bath. Rubber boots to the knees being worn by many. The mood is determined and quiet, workers struggling with the piping to move the water out far enough to not cause too much soupy chaos. Emergency first aid tents line the path to the cave entrance in ready to treat the victims.

 

Myself I'm struggling to understand why with 95% of the cave having been explored by the divers already the last kilometer is taking a day to search.

 

Sent from my abacus using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[lvr181]

Just hoping that rescue does not turn into recovery. 

[toolpush]

8 hours ago, delphioracle said:

I fear that the chances of finding anyone alive are indeed slim.Missing now for 4 days, lack of food, exposure  to cold conditions  via water, the hopes are slim for survival.

 

Cave exploration , potholing  are  hazardous  excursions needing proper equipment and qualified guides and emergency food and  power pack supplies.Mobile phones I would presume are  not working  due to the  lack of signal due to the ground cover, and now  possibly no power.

 

Still,  while there is hope and the search teams keep going there is a slim chance of survival.

 

My heart goes out to the families of those lost in this underground labyrinth as well as those who are lost or trapped in the labyrinth.

 

Don't lose hope, keep searching. 

Lack of food is not an problem yet. Generally, a person can live without food for up to 30 or 40 days. The water in the cave is probably drinkable and shelter isn't really an issue......

[nabbie]

Pray for miracle news...

[toolpush]

3 hours ago, kingkenny said:

Prayers are not going to save these kids, the rescuers are, prayers mean diddly squat.

 

I am not praying for these kids to get out safely, I am wishing and hoping they get out safely with a story to tell about their adventure.

Yeah, the Sky Fairy ain't listening anyway

[tandor]

3 hours ago, 0815 said:

The excuse of this irresponsible acting "coach" may be: The sign tells floodwarning starting from July, but we went there in June.
Tragedies like this will happen as long as people don't be held /don't feel responsible for what they did.
In a few months or even weeks the next will probably run there and get in trouble only to post: We have visited this place and made some selfies.
Hopefully the young boys will be rescued and will fully recover - and learn...

..selfies are so critical aren't they.  ?