17 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Yep, give them credit. Lots of credit. They've brought in a large number of experts. Why would that be? Because they have expertise themselves? Or because they haven't? And why do they seem beset with what even Thai professionals quaintly term ço-ordination issues'?

Thais initially thought that they would be able to handle the situation , be able to free to boys unassisted .

    After a while , they realised it was a difficult, impossible situation and so they asked non Thais to assist and ask them whether they had any better ideas .

   Every other expert in the World flew in to assist.................and guess what ?

They didnt have any solutions either .

   That suggests that there is no solution and Thais are not inferior to non Thais .

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

This initially thought that they would be able to handle the situation , be able to free to boys unassisted .

    After a while , they realised it was a difficult, impossible situation and so they asked non Thais to assist and ask them whether they had any better ideas .

   Every other expert in the World flew in to assist.................and guess what ?

They didnt have any solutions either .

   That suggests that there is no solution and Thais are not inferior to non Thais .

Spot on.

8 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Right that'll work at age 12-16 when they're trapped in a big hole and the water is rising. Concentrate on nothing and clear your mind. It's good for you.

 

Good plan.

OK, what do you suggest that the kids do ?

Come on, with your superior intelligence , how would you suggest that the kids pass their time ?

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

Most of the experiences on TVF?Font of hot air?And that relates exactly how to this situation?Are TVF posters experts in disasters and their management?

 

No, I mean day-to-day experience of Thai-style management. Not everyone is likely to be wrong, but yes, lets see how it pans out. I would expect it to end badly. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

 

While hoping for a good outcome, I expect a bad outcome, which, if it comes, I will cope with better than the Polyannas who are convinced that God, Buddha, the great Boogaloo or meditation will save them. Too much emotional attachment is going to mean having a hard row to hoe, come the day.

Well, I've noticed in some comments the 'blame game' has started. If there has been bad coordination then I feel it's up to those involved in the rescue operation to sort it out. Having never been to the cave, from what I read it looks very complex indeed and if that is the case, and with such a large number of expertise apparently involved, mistakes can happen more easily. If Thai cave experts are unsure of the cave's complexity in total then some operations are going to be 'hit and miss'. At this point the parents anguish must be horrifying.

Found this picture of the boys on a Thai friend's page along with hopeful words.

 

Soon the farang-teams will be blamed for the chaos...

Bad farangs.

I've been very sad? and worried☹️, 7days? I could not last 2hours straight exploring the cave in Chiang Dao, I pray?? they are found safe and join us very soon #HOPE13

I sincerely hope for their sake the international rescuers are a bit more organised in doing what they do best rather than the usual "free-for-all" Thai method !!

5 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

This initially thought that they would be able to handle the situation , be able to free to boys unassisted .

    After a while , they realised it was a difficult, impossible situation and so they asked non Thais to assist and ask them whether they had any better ideas .

   Every other expert in the World flew in to assist.................and guess what ?

They didnt have any solutions either .

   That suggests that there is no solution and Thais are not inferior to non Thais .

 

It doesn't mean that at all, that's an outrageous and mendacious false equivalence.

 

Who wrote that nonsense?... oh. It wasn't Odysseus 123, he was quoting someone else.

 

As you were then. situation normal, nothing to see here.

7 minutes ago, kcpattaya said:

Soon the farang-teams will be blamed for the chaos...

Bad farangs.

 

Give it a few days and 13 bodies. I do hope you're wrong but I'm expecting the same result; mountains of precedent.

38 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

FWIW, I agree, and am also very sad about it, but it was not only predictable, having lived here for a number of years, I would say it was inevitable that they would cock it up. Inevitable, despite what the I-love-Thais-I-think-they're-just-wonderful brigade might prefer to think, in spite of all the management excellence Thais are famous for.

Seriously, you are a truly depressing person.  Constant negativity.  It must be so tiring to live in a place that you hate, surrounded by people you think are inferior to you.  It must be exhausting.  Why bother?  This negative sniping is really not helping anyone, but it is constant in every post you make.  Please give it a rest.  

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Srivara defends his questioning of officials at Tham Luang cave

 

 

Pol Gen Srivara Rangsibrahmanagul, the national deputy chief, has come under attacks in the social media for what is seen as an act of intimidation toward officials working to save the lives of the 12 young footballers and their coach trapped in Tham Luang Cave.

 

A video clip showing Pol Gen Srivara questioning two officials whether they had a permission to fly a drone and drill a hole in the cave went viral on the last few days. It was his use of language and stern manner that irked social media users who expressed sympathy with the officials on the rescue mission.

 

An official was trying to use a drone to survey the mountain to look for shafts through which search and rescue officials could get down into the cave when Pol Gen Srivara intervened to question whether he had received proper permission to do so.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/srivara-defende-questioning-officials-tham-luang-cave/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-06-30

This man should stick to waiing CEO's.

6 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

It doesn't mean that at all, that's an outrageous and mendacious false equivalence.

 

Who wrote that nonsense?... oh. It wasn't Odysseus 123, he was quoting someone else.

 

As you were then. situation normal, nothing to see here.

Have you just mendaciously attached another poster's quote to my name?

2 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

It doesn't mean that at all, that's an outrageous and mendacious false equivalence.

 

You were suggesting that the Thais were unable to handle the situation and that they should have called for Western help earlier .

  The Western help were unable to offer any solution .

That shows that Westerners had no solution and so

Thais cannot be seen as being inferior for not being able to solve the problem .

   Please stop all your Thai bashing and unnecessary  criticism , its getting nauseating 

Imagine if a week or two  or three from now and no people found, dead or alive.

It will still be theoretically possible for there to be survivors but then what do they do? 

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I sincerely hope for their sake the international rescuers are a bit more organised in doing what they do best rather than the usual "free-for-all" Thai method !!

Well at least you've come out and said it in a forthright manner, which is what others have been trying to do in a roundabout fashion.

 

Careful though, you will more than likely receive a lot of flak because of this post, so be prepared.

 

The strange thing is that there are many, many posts on Tv which say basically the same thing as that which you have said, about Thais not wanting to accept advice, better ways of doing things, or that they know best (yes my Thai electrician who said that Thai electricity didn't need an earth) and won't accept that they are not "the best in the world at everything".

 

So chastising posters like you for saying what many others have said seems very strange, because if this wasn't about these poor lads and their coach being stranded and possibly facing death, but about, for example, fixing and Aircon or similar, then the "Thais don't know what they're doing" posts would be coming thick and fast.

 

Like everyone who has posted here, I really want this to end well.

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

You were suggesting that the Thais were unable to handle the situation and that they should have called for Western help earlier .

  The Western help were unable to offer any solution .

That shows that Westerners had no solution and so

Thais cannot be seen as being inferior for not being able to solve the problem .

   Please stop all your Thai bashing and unnecessary  criticism , its getting nauseating 

It really really is.  Extremely nauseating.  It's like the man can't wait for 13 dead bodies to be found so he can dance around saying "I told you so, aren't the Thais stupid".  Makes me sick.  He has offered nothing constructive, just constant sniping.  In.  Every.  Single.  Post.

I'm not interested in this nationalistic posturing, but an obvious fact is that such a complex operation needs a clear and extremely competent leadership structure to have the best chance of success. It seems that is being questioned whether that actually exists in this operation, and that's coming from Thais as well. 

Another day and no sign of the team. 

I'm trying not to give up. 

How long will they look for? 

Whatever anyone says about co-ordination, management or any other thing that detracts from the efforts that people are making to rescue the kids, you have to admire anyone, no matter how well trained who will dive through mud clogged, fast flowing crevices with zero visibility and danger all around in an attempt to save these poor lads. I am astounded by their individual bravery and commitment, their willingness to possibly lose their own lives to save others and their selfless attitudes. It should be an example to us all.

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

Another day and no sign of the team. 

I'm trying not to give up. 

How long will they look for? 

 

I'm expecting an announcement within the next few days. I do not expect Prayuth will want to be anywhere near it so expect some diversionary announcements from their paid liar.

1 minute ago, Megasin1 said:

Whatever anyone says about co-ordination, management or any other thing that detracts from the efforts that people are making to rescue the kids, you have to admire anyone, no matter how well trained who will dive through mud clogged, fast flowing crevices with zero visibility and danger all around in an attempt to save these poor lads. I am astounded by their individual bravery and commitment, their willingness to possibly lose their own lives to save others and their selfless attitudes. It should be an example to us all.

 

Not sure I would go that far, but I'm quite sure they are doing their best in the best way they know how. I don't think that is in question, it certainly isn't being questioned by me...

3 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Another day and no sign of the team. 

I'm trying not to give up. 

How long will they look for? 

As long as it takes. 

 

That is what rescues are about.

Just now, chrisinth said:

As long as it takes. 

 

That is what rescues are about.

 

Betcha a tenner it doesn't go past next Saturday, perhaps sooner.

4 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

I'm expecting an announcement within the next few days. I do not expect Prayuth will want to be anywhere near it so expect some diversionary announcements from their paid liar.

You see. When everyone complains about the media, now we don't get much news at all. 

I knew that would happen. 

1 minute ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Betcha a tenner it doesn't go past next Saturday, perhaps sooner.

That long. 

?

6 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

I'm expecting an announcement within the next few days. I do not expect Prayuth will want to be anywhere near it so expect some diversionary announcements from their paid liar.

 

Who do you think you are? Your delusions are amusing 

In the Haiti earthquake a survivor was found after 27 days, so don't give up just yet ?

1 minute ago, Julie H said:

 

Who do you think you are? Your delusions are amusing 

 

Really? Hang on, I'll just nip off for a quick meditation. That'll fix it up.

 

I have an advantage over you, you see. I know who I am and you don't have any idea. And yet, I don't talk about who I am or speculate about it. That's where we differ.

 

I always taught, if you you don't know what you're talking about it, either accept it and learn how to listen or (better still) just be quiet.

Well we all know that when a disaster happens here, they can't organise anything. I saw it 1st hand when the 12Go plane crashed on Phuket.