Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[jmd8800]

17 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

yah, a US counsel member would or certainly could be trained to understand what a 1099 is, what social security statements are, etc.  But as far as what a Thai official may request to see or demand, or in worse case demand to see monthly transfers INTO Thailand, well, we shall see how the cases pop up.  I could show lots of things, but would not want to show my bank account or IRA account numbers and yearly income statements or estimated monthly incomes.  All those numbers given freely to a foreign country that has no guarantees on safeguarding such information?  Getting quite risky.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I meant one could take the 1099-Rs (or whatever) as supporting evidence to the income affidavit for Thai Immigration to see.

 

 

[cubism001]

23 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Many ex-pat retirees (apart from Americans) have to provide evidence of their incomes every year in order to renew their retirement visa. It seems that Thai immigration have finally worked out that there are Americans rolling up to their Embassy, raising their right hand and swearing that they have sufficient funds when in fact, they don't. Now that loophole has been closed and it seems they have to provide "hard" evidence. Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance but really, not that onerous. Welcome to the ex-pat world of everyone else...

 

Regards,

 

Joe

Welcome to the real world yourself, mate.  Have you ever gone stateside, especially in the last 2 years?  You might be a bit more sympathetic and less superior, even racist, toward your fellows.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

47 minutes ago, Small Joke said:

I was there yesterday.  In the past they did not ask for a print out of the forex transfer from overseas, I was sent away to get it. And my TM30 acknowledged slip. And my other half's house documents, and her Thai ID. 

But it seemed pleasant and routine,  I didn't feel they had singled me out. 

 

If you're talking about a forex transfer, are you American or other?

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

6 minutes ago, fullcave said:

I never had any trouble just needed to provide proof of minimum 800,000 THB in the local bank for a minimum of 3 months. Have they changed the requirement now? 

No. This discussion regards only those who are supplying to CM IMM as proof of income an "Income Affidavit" as attested to before a Consular Officer of the United States.

 

Although lying to a Federal Agent by making a false attestation is a serious offense there are probably a few  Americans fudging a bit in this regard and actually living on a pittance, working illegally, being supported by Thai wives, etc.

 

Thus there may be some concern among official circles in Thailand regarding this practice of supplying income affidavits while the issuing authority, in this case the US Consul, does not actually require any proof of such incomes.

[JLCrab]

3 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

<snip>Thus there may be some concern among official circles in Thailand regarding this practice of supplying income affidavits while the issuing authority, in this case the US Consul, does not actually require any proof of such incomes.

It is not just in this case -- The Embassies/Consulates of the US Department of State worldwide will not provide any notarized statement as to the truthfulness or veracity of any document presented to it under any circumstances including documents issued by the US federal government itself.

[jmd8800]

13 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

It is not just in this case -- The Embassies/Consulates of the US Department of State worldwide will not provide any notarized statement as to the truthfulness or veracity of any document presented to it under any circumstances including documents issued by the US federal government itself.

This is correct. The only thing the US Embassies & Consulates do by notarizing the statement is to verify that you are who you say you are. The truthfulness of what you say is true, is up to you to prove if questioned later.

[cubism001]

Dare I ask now:  what if you're using the Vientienne run ?  I'm a writer & my income varies tremendously.  Might have to move to xyz until I save the cash?  Thank you.

[elektrified]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

Remember that it's not just Americans that use Income Affidavits where they don't have to "prove" income to the Embassy/Consulates.  After a brief time last year where they tried asking their folks to provide "proof", the Aussies have returned to their long practice of accepting the oath of their people, just as the U.S. does.  I understand the Dutch operate the same way and presumably other countries operate the same way.

 

As was pointed out earlier in this post, someone brought a printout from their pension provider and showed it to Chiang Mai Imm and they barely glanced at it.  They just want something that "tells a good story". 

 

One year, I was asked how I had money to support myself when I hadn't touched my 800,000 baht Thai bank account for years and I said my husband's pension was adequate for both of us, brought out our joint Bangkok Bank account bankbook, opened it to where he could see it was a very active account and asked if he wanted to see it.  He waved it away.  All he wanted to see if I had a good story and didn't squirm because he may have thought I was working or doing something else illegal to do under a retirement visa.  I think it will be the same for anyone asked to provide proof of their retirement income.

Also, as was pointed out in an earlier response, Imm takes a good look at applicant's addresses, whether they own a condominium or rent  from someone that may be known to them, live in a decent moobaan, if they have a land line or only a mobile telephone..., etc., etc.? If someone turns up with an address for a shack on Th. Sri Phoom Muang or someplace that clearly would be a 1500 Baht/month hovel then that would make them suspicious...

Edited July 12, 2018 by elektrified

[elektrified]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

No one else has posted having a problem described by the OP as being a new policy for everyone?... The OP seemed to be relatively new to Thailand and may have just been profiled... It would be useful to know the OPs age and previous visa history... I agree with the recent posts that immigration is just looking to see if you are prepared and have a good story to show if asked... Much of what you would present to them they would not understand and as stated just wave you on with that... I would say that a Thai bank statement or ATM stub of foreign transfer into the country  would be the best and without these I can understand the Immigration finding you suspect...

 

Again has anyone else been subjected to this new policy?...

In the thread I read on FB which I don't think was made by the same person here because it preceded his/her post by a few days, there were many responses but I recall only one or two other respondents claiming the same. Perhaps it is true but that Imm is selectively asking for proof based on the applicants being newbies or having suspicious info on their applications? Just a guess that it is selective and not everyone. I'll see if I can find that discussion and post a link. Not really sure how to search for it though...

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Not true at all.  If one returns home and comes back with $10,000 in USD, there would not be any transaction record of money arriving in Thailand, which, I believe as time goes on the Thais are actually going to want to see.  I myself plan to return to the states at least twice a year as I have various interests there that require or I want to spend my attention on. So coming and going twice a year, I would not have to transfer much money to Thailand explicitly.  Cash and carry most of the time

Of I were you... When returning to Thailand pick the Immigration queue with the prettiest Thai of your persuasion and after they stamp you in ask them if you can take a photo with them while you are holding your cash... 

[55Jay]

Guy learns that Muricans don't have to show proof of income at the Embassy.  ?

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by 55Jay

[George Bowman]

21 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

look at the 2 - 2557 current Police Orders (Regs and Docs) they both say that what is listed is "the criteria and conditions for consideration" of extension of stay.

I looked over the regs and did not see any requirement stating that the money must come from America. Even though, I have lived in Thailand (legally) for many years, this retirement visa is new to me. Initially, I went to the embassy and got the document that the  immigration officials required. However, to my way of thinking, this is not really necessary as money received through our Thailand rentals is more than sufficient to satisfy the requirement. I'm just trying to save $50 bucks and the trip to Bangkok.

 

But at the end of the day, I still have to jump through the hoops.

Edited July 12, 2018 by missoura

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Not true at all.  If one returns home and comes back with $10,000 in USD, there would not be any transaction record of money arriving in Thailand, which, I believe as time goes on the Thais are actually going to want to see.  I myself plan to return to the states at least twice a year as I have various interests there that require or I want to spend my attention on. So coming and going twice a year, I would not have to transfer much money to Thailand explicitly.  Cash and carry most of the time

I agree there are exceptions to those who get pensions; social security etc.  However, the money one brings back in cash to Thailand has an origination- it may be in a safety deposit box in an American Bank.  The Thai Immigration act states 65,000 Baht a month as shown on an affidavit from one's Embassy or 800,000 Baht per year in a Thai Bank.   Many people live on less than 65,000 per month but have income coming from somewhere at 65,000 Baht per month.  An accountant or lawyer can be used to attest to the fact that one has savings; income; stocks; bonds; money  sitting in a safe deposit box etc. That accountant or lawyer statement can certainly state  Mr X has the equivalent of 65,000 per month income. At some point  one has to change their dollars to  Thai Baht-  and one gets a receipt for the exchange. One's passport shows coming and goings. Airplane trips are paid for and receipts given.

 

Documentation is virtually available for every facet of one's life if needed, although most of the time it is tossed in the trash.   While I believe Immigration will do this selectively on a case by case basis- go in prepared with some backup documentation  and if asked for- present it- if not asked- simply present the Affidavit 

 

 

[Bill97]

It is all just about papers never to be authenticated. So if you don't have what is requested, make it or have some 17 year old do it for you.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect

[elektrified]

deleted

Edited July 12, 2018 by elektrified

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, missoura said:

I looked over the regs and did not see any requirement stating that the money must come from America <snip>

The income affidavit from the US Embassy Bangkok that you sign states:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $_XXX_ from sources in the United States.

[elektrified]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

The income affidavit from the US Embassy Bangkok that you sign states:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $_XXX_ from sources in the United States.

Good point. I only posted above what I was told by the lawyer.

[grin]

 
Did you get any feel for whether the same request was being made of everyone else/others?
 

It was just me. Even though he asked for more documentation he barely looked at it and stapled my affidavit to the front of it and we were done.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[grin]

 
How many past months of statements did they ask for and/or did you present?
 
That's exactly the kind of backup documents I've been carrying with me to Bangkok CW Immigration for many years in connections with my retirement extensions based on U.S. Consulate income affidavits. I've usually brought the prior three months, just in case. But at least thru last year, never once asked to show any of them.
 

He was not specific so I printed 3 months of statements, same as you carry.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[George Bowman]

9 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The income affidavit from the US Embassy Bangkok that you sign states:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $_XXX_ from sources in the United States.

Yes, that is what the document says. However, what I am trying to say, is that step is not absolutely necessary. Other documents should suffice. But TIT...

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, missoura said:

Yes, that is what the document says. However, what I am trying to say, is that step is not absolutely necessary. Other documents should suffice. But TIT...

Great -- so why not head to Immigration HQ on Suan Phlu and look for this:

[George Bowman]

14 minutes ago, elektrified said:

The attorney specifically told me that it doesn't matter where or how the income comes from (partnerships, investments, foreign business interests, work done in foreign countries, investments, rental/real estate income), as long [if asked] that it can be proven, and that it does NOT come from work done inside Thailand and no customers inside Thailand.

This is how it seems to work, but the regs state nothing that I can see in reference to whether that money is made in Thailand or comes from outside the country. The rules simply say that a person just needs a certain amount of money in the bank.

[sfokevin]

Given some of the posts on this thread I am shocked that more of my countrymen have not been deported by Thai Immigration... 

Edited July 12, 2018 by sfokevin

[JLCrab]

3 minutes ago, missoura said:

This is how it seems to work, but the regs state nothing that I can see in reference to whether that money is made in Thailand or comes from outside the country. The rules simply say that a person just needs a certain amount of money in the bank.

The regs only say 'evidence' of 65K per month -- nothing about an income affidavit from your country's Embassy.

Edited July 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, grin said:

It was just me. Even though he asked for more documentation he barely looked at it and stapled my affidavit to the front of it and we were done.
 

 

Ahh... so the IO kept the document copies you provided, instead of just examining them and handing them back.. Interesting!  Thanks!

 

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

Recently, I heard the same story of request for back-up proof for a U.S. income letter for someone who was attempting a DIY visa conversion at CM Imm.  This may be just another technique they're using to make it difficult for newbies to try to do visa conversions themselves to encourage them to use agents.

Considering that Imm only deal with 20 retirement applicants per day (think that`s still the case?), which means it is impossible for all applicants to obtain their extensions using the direct One Stop Immigration progress, there are simply not enough slots, then yes, the overflow have no choice but to use an agent. They have created a system designed to work this way. Also, by continually moving the goal posts without prior announcements having to scratch around on TV and FB to seek information, makes the process complicated even for those that have stayed here for several years. Again, edging us all to the agents. There does not seem to be any uniformity in the process.

 

Then there are those that try to buck the system, those people that make it more difficult for everyone, which creates a backlash by immigration by giving us more hurdles to jump over and I guarantee it will be us that end up paying the price for these reckless people that make immigration work harder and having to apply more resources into the processes. These are the people that I lay squarely the blame. 

 

 

 

[amexpat]

29 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

These are the people that I lay squarely the blame. 

Who?

 

[hougourou]

Does anyone know if this requirement for evidnce of income in addition to the affidavit from the US Consulate/Embassy is required in other provinces  besides Chiang Mai?

 

Sorry if this was covered above and I missed it.

 

Thanks for any information.

[cyberfarang]

10 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Who?

 

An example, I knew an English guy living here as a retiree, who did not have the 800000 baht or anywhere near the 65000 baht per month income. He would borrow 800000 baht from a corrupt agency 3 months prior to his application. After his passport was stamped for another year, he paid the 800000 baht back to the agency plus 20000 baht loan fee.

 

Also those who claim to have 65000 baht per month income could be only on a temporary basis. Sometimes they are using savings other then that being a regular secured income and bringing over from abroad and then sending it back again to appear as this is regular income.

 

If I know what`s going on, I am sure immigration also know what`s going on.

[Ricohoc]

Interesting reading.

 

Last conversation I had with officials at the US Embassy was that this affidavit arrangement was made between the US and Thailand.  Yes, the Thai immigration officer has his/her discretion to override and ask for proof, but it seems like our embassy and consulate would have notified all US citizens of this change.  Looks like it's time to drop them an email.

 

Until it becomes some Kingdom-wide edict, I'll view this as isolated to one instance or one immigration office.