Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[elektrified]

3 hours ago, CMBob said:

Twelve pages of ramblings because of a single report claiming CM Immigration has changed its usual procedure when presented with an income affidavit from the US citizens.  Unless and until more reports come in detailing the same treatment, best to move on and presume no change has occurred.

 

Once in a while, a given immigration officer seems to ask for something different.  A couple of years ago, while renewing my annual extension at CM Immigration, the officer asked me for a photocopy of every single filled-out page of my passport (which was a lot of pages).  I asked her if she really wanted that and, when she said "yes", I reached into my folder and handed her a complete set of my passport pages (I take the kitchen sink with me as occasionally they will ask for something unusual).  Was this a change of policy?  Obviously not.  As to why she asked for it, god/buddha only knows.  The single event, however, didn't justify me in making a post here on TV titled  "Another Change For Annual Extenders."

There were a few reports on FB by people (less than 5 as I recall - I can't find it now), who were asked for the supporting documents, but they were ALL first-time American applicants.

[NancyL]

6 hours ago, elektrified said:

There were a few reports on FB by people (less than 5 as I recall - I can't find it now), who were asked for the supporting documents, but they were ALL first-time American applicants.

There you go.  That's the common thread.  It's simply another device to discourage newbies from do-it-yourself visa conversion attempts.  Ever wonder why the visa agents charge fees that are at least 10,000 baht more than what they charge for regular 12-month visa extension services?

[Dante99]

5 minutes ago, NancyL said:

There you go.  That's the common thread.  It's simply another device to discourage newbies from do-it-yourself visa conversion attempts.  Ever wonder why the visa agents charge fees that are at least 10,000 baht more than what they charge for regular 12-month visa extension services?

A first time applicant does not necessarily mean a visa conversion, it can be from somebody who has a Non Imm already, can't it?

[poanoi]

31 minutes ago, NancyL said:

There you go.  That's the common thread.  It's simply another device to discourage newbies from do-it-yourself visa conversion attempts.  Ever wonder why the visa agents charge fees that are at least 10,000 baht more than what they charge for regular 12-month visa extension services?

that is a very plausible explanation,

but what can an applicant do if the immigration officer decides

to not accept any documents, and/or just keep on demanding

more proof until the current visa expires ?

Edited July 13, 2018 by poanoi

[Lizard2010]

Most other countries embassy's  have to provide proof of income

My Embassy does

Why should Americans be any differant

These are the rules

So just suck it up

I have too

 

[Ron19]

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[JLCrab]

18 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

Most other countries embassy's  have to provide proof of income

My Embassy does

Why should Americans be any differant

<snip>

Because the income affidavit obtained from the US Embassy/Consulate does not claim to provide proof of income.

Edited July 13, 2018 by JLCrab

[Lizard2010]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

Because the income affidavit obtained from the US Embassy/Consulate does not claim to provide proof of income.

That is why the Thai Govt has changed the rules

As i hear many people do not have  the required 800 000 per year for the Visa Or Visa Extension

My embassy know what i put down is correct

Plus i have a copy to show them

 

Also the complaints about the US$ 50

I believe all embassy's and consulates now charge US $50 about the same in there currency

This happened about 12 months ago

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

That is why the Thai Govt has changed the rules

<snip>

There has been no change in rules. Any Thai IMM office could always ask for corroborating documents to a US income affidavit or an affidavit/statement of proof from any other country's embassy as well.

[sqwakvfr]

If one has to provide evidence of the income stated then why is an Affidavit needed?  A letter from the source of my monthly income was accepted by the Thai consulate for my Non-Imm O-A application.  

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

If one has to provide evidence of the income stated then why is an Affidavit needed?  A letter from the source of my monthly income was accepted by the Thai consulate for my Non-Imm O-A application.  

Because one doesn't have to. It is only at the discretion of the Thai IMM officer whether he/she wants to see any corroborating information.

[Dante99]

9 hours ago, elektrified said:

There were a few reports on FB by people (less than 5 as I recall - I can't find it now), who were asked for the supporting documents, but they were ALL first-time American applicants.

So for the vast majority of the people here, this is much ado about nothing.  

[ripstanley]

On 7/11/2018 at 11:39 AM, sfokevin said:

My bank (Bangkok Bank) only seems to keep 6 months balance records... I usually get this printout certified from the bank and have it with me when do my extension and have my US Consul letter of income...

 

Agree the last few years my agent looks at the bank statement but does not take it to submit to immigration...

 

My question is a 6 months certified bank record showing regular monthly transfers in sufficient or do they require a full year?... If so how does one get a full year when the bank only keeps the last 6 months on file?

 

The bank book seems unless for me as I never use it and when asked to have it updated the update seems to only add one or two previous entries and the present balance...

Last year I required a print out of my yearly bank statements. My bank is Bangkok Bank in Phayao. They told me  at the bank they could only do 6 months. I told them I needed 12 months. They said that they would have to get it from head office and there would be a charge of 300 baht. I filled out a form, paid the money, received a receipt and I had the report in 5 days.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by ripstanley

[Thaidream]

US Citizens are not getting any break from Thai Immigration nor is any other Nationality.  Thai Immigration wants a sworn Affidavit of income from the applicants Embassy.

 

Each Embassy sets its own policy on how they will handle the Affidavit. Some Embassies require a review of the applicants supporting evidence.  Other Embassies do not  review the supporting evidence.

 

The US Embassy provides the Affidavit and makes their citizens  take an oath that  what they are swearing to is truthful. If the applicant is lying and that is found out later- the applicant can be charged with perjury and  fraud and once convicted can be sent to jail for 5 years.  If the Immigration Officer asks for proof of income and finds that the applicant has lied- he can and will call the Embassy who then takes action.

 

The IO can require an applicant of any Nationality to provide additional documentation such as  proof of financials or anything else they  may want.  Several years ago when applying for a marriage extension- I was asked to provide the passport that I entered Thailand on to prove I was in Thailand  the date I was married- even though I had provided the original marriage certificate and the  update from the Amphur.  Luckily my wife had saved the Passport which was 20 years old and expired.

Why did they ask for it?  You can guess why.

 

Why does Samui require a physical exam each year for extensions?  Why does Nontaburi require a trip to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to verify a signature on  an affidavit?  During the course of a year- one person or another is asked for added documentation and others not. Why was one poster who had 11 years of  extensions using the  monthly income/affidavit method informed he could't do it anymore and then the following year was allowed to do it. Why was I -who  had done decades of marriage extensions with no issue suddenly asked to provide a 20 year old Passport proving I was in Thailand on the date of the marriage?   

 

It has nothing to do with Nationality and everything to do with the law which says they can ask for any added documentation at any time.

 

 

 

 

[moontang]

on a bad day, some will tell you no fixed deposits.....And God help you, if they matured during seasoning.  Wouldn't a stamped bank book be as good as a statement?  Foreign remittances are clearly coded.

[elektrified]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

So for the vast majority of the people here, this is much ado about nothing.  

Which is exactly why the moderator of one of the C.M. FB groups shut down another discussion about the same thing one hour after it was posted and at least 50 panicked people responded in that hour. He pointed out that each and every person who reported in another post (on another group I think) - that they were all first-time retirement visa applicants. The continued posts just created unnecessary panicking over nothing.

 

BTW, I got my extension last week and it was business as usual.

 

I guess it also shows that the forum has become somewhat insignificant these days, as more people are getting their info from FB groups. Such is a change of the times....

Edited July 13, 2018 by elektrified

[hml367]

5 minutes ago, elektrified said:

Which is exactly why the moderator of one of the C.M. FB groups shut down another discussion about the same thing one hour after it was posted and at least 50 panicked people responded in that hour. He pointed out that each and every person who reported in another post (on another group I think) - that they were all first-time retirement visa applicants. The continued posts just created unnecessary panicking over nothing.

 

BTW, I got my extension last week and it was business as usual.

 

I guess it also shows that the forum has become somewhat insignificant these days, as more people are getting their info from FB groups. Such is a change of the times....

Is your extension based on retirement ?

[elektrified]

41 minutes ago, hml367 said:

Is your extension based on retirement ?

Yes

[earlinclaifornia]

I knew right away a possible problem when the swearing did not have a written proof. Noticeable fix it seems.

[Pilotman]

On 7/11/2018 at 11:40 AM, Captain_Bob said:

Non-O retirement visa based on affidavit pretending to have fake money was doomed sooner or later. Just a matter of time until the next "crackdown". 

and where does that leave people who use agents and the agents money, up the creek.  It was always a con to use agents money and it will come home to roost at some point. 

[JLCrab]

[jmd8800]

Looks to me like this wind up thread is about to slowly wind down.

[NancyL]

12 hours ago, poanoi said:

that is a very plausible explanation,

but what can an applicant do if the immigration officer decides

to not accept any documents, and/or just keep on demanding

more proof until the current visa expires ?

Hire a visa agent.  

[moontang]

15 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Hire a visa agent.  

or move to one of the 70+ province where it is smooth sailing for legitimates.  Udon ain't that bad...neither is the perimeter of BKK.

[connda]

On 7/11/2018 at 10:46 AM, idman said:

Yesterday afternoon they up and changed the rules for showing proof of income

If all your money comes from your US bank account and is transferred via ACH through Bangkok Bank of New York, you have such a solid paper trail that I'm not sure how they could contest it.   If you're not transferring your funds that way, you should ask yourself, "Why not?" 

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

If all your money comes from your US bank account and is transferred via ACH through Bangkok Bank of New York, you have such a solid paper trail that I'm not sure how they could contest it.   If you're not transferring your funds that way, you should ask yourself, "Why not?" 

most don't bring over that much per month, even if they do actually get it.  So another reason to accumulate 800K over here and simplify the whole process.

[George Bowman]

Recently, I have been watching a program on Netflix called Border Security. Basically, it shows how officials deal with people trying to enter the states. Many of these airline passengers try to pull the same stunts that a few Westerns do here in Thailand.

 

One couple from Africa tried to use a personal check from a friend to show that they had enough money to enter America. Passengers from a SEA country had packed raw meat in their suitcase.  One young man had $400 for a 3-week tour of America. The list goes on.

 

The program is worth a watch and here is a personal hint about border security in America. Don’t bother to pack any ‘nam prik’ in your suitcase. It gets tossed every time and my wife gets aggravated.

 

We expats have to jump through the hoops in order to stay in Thailand and it is a pain in the butt. I have been doing it for close to 20 years now and the hoops continue to move back and forth. And, I still get aggravated…

[narkeddiver]

The ability of Thai immigration to ask for any supporting information that they like is a PIA

 

Last year I did my marriage extension based on income using the rental income on a property in my home company - I supplied them with the income letter from my embassy along with several income statements from my letting agent

 

Halfway through the 30 day wait I received a phone call asking for a copy of the rental agreement from my home company!

 

I got my letting agent to email me a copy of the legal document which ran to about 12 - 15 pages

 

I hope they enjoyed reading that ?

[Lizard2010]

5 hours ago, missoura said:

Recently, I have been watching a program on Netflix called Border Security. Basically, it shows how officials deal with people trying to enter the states. Many of these airline passengers try to pull the same stunts that a few Westerns do here in Thailand.

 

One couple from Africa tried to use a personal check from a friend to show that they had enough money to enter America. Passengers from a SEA country had packed raw meat in their suitcase.  One young man had $400 for a 3-week tour of America. The list goes on.

 

The program is worth a watch and here is a personal hint about border security in America. Don’t bother to pack any ‘nam prik’ in your suitcase. It gets tossed every time and my wife gets aggravated.

 

We expats have to jump through the hoops in order to stay in Thailand and it is a pain in the butt. I have been doing it for close to 20 years now and the hoops continue to move back and forth. And, I still get aggravated…

They have similar programs in New Zealand Australia

The same thing happens  bringing in banned products

Plus they always try anything to get in

[poanoi]

20 hours ago, NancyL said:

Hire a visa agent.  

yes, i know that one,

was just wondering if there is any solution that doesnt add

some 15.000 baht per year and visa