Are the water from filtration machines safe?

[Roiav]

It is very good for the environment to use the machine water in Thailand, and also good for your pocket, but you cannot know the implications on your body for the long term.

 

I live in Chiang Mai. I have tried to drink the machine water in Chiang Mai for a while, and realized that this water get an odor after several days in the bottle. Meaning, the machine can not even filter bacteria effectively, which has relatively large particles. You can not know which filters are installed in the machines, and in what frequency they are replaced.

 

On the contrary, the water bottles that re sold in the convenience stores have the stamp “NSF” - this should ensure that their RO filters are certified according to the NSF standard.

 

 The most concerning are the heavy metals that might exist in the water. The human body can adjust its immune system to deal with the usual bacteria and viruses in the water, but it is not capable get rid of heavy metals like lead and mercury.

 

Moreover, these are molecules, so this type of contaminants have the smallest particles, almost like the water molecules, and if there are such contaminants in the pipe water, they pass through the machine's filter for sure.

 

Therefore, I do not understand the logic behind boiling the water… because it does not remove the metals anyway.

Edited July 18, 2018 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[Sakeopete]

Honestly after finding dirt in the bottom of a 5 gallon water bottle I stopped trusting them with my family's health. Knowing how things work in Asia I don't trust for a minute that companies offering filtered water or those coin operates machines at condo';s actually get serviced.

 

4  years ago my neighbor showed me his atmospheric water generator  that uses humidity in the air to condense into water. Even though the water is already clean it still goes through 2 carbon filters, a mineral adding filter and RO. Both holding tanks also have UV lights. The water tastes amazing and since I make it myself I know it is clean.

 

Lucky for me he moved back to the USA and I quickly bought it from him. Best investment I ever made the machine never runs out of water for our family of 4 and unlike filter systems it doesn't matter if we have city water or not. The machine is the same size as a water cooler without the 5 gallon bottle on top.

[Juan B Tong]

Logic?

 

The logic behind boiling water in Thailand is to cook food or make hot beverages.

 

The logic behind the street side filtered water machines is to make money.

[ehs818]

The answer to the simple question of whether the water that comes out of the dispensing machine is easy to reach.  Just ask yourself, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW ANYONE CHANGING THE FILTERS IN THESE MACHINES.  The answer is NEVER. Buy your water at the store, not at your corner machine.

[trawler]

Just buy your own RO system,they are only around 8K and most vendors will fit them for you.Then you can change filters as often as you like..............

[rwill]

Get your own filter for drinking water in the house.  One with UV will kill bacteria too.  Pure seems to be a good brand and they have many locations.  You can get Pure filter systems at Homepro but they don't have the model that automatically turns the UV on and off for you.  Better to go to a Pure store and the cost is the same anyway.  Ask them for free installation too.

[HHTel]

It does depend on how well these machines are serviced.  My wife will go across town to a dispenser that her friend services.  You can see her friend daily changing filters and making sure the outlet nozzles are clean.  She doesn't trust any of the ones locally as she said, as pointed out above, that you never see the 'owner' servicing these machines.

So the moral is that unless you know the machines are being serviced regularly, then don't use them.

I think there was a report recently that discovered 70% of the machines tested were below par.

 

[Formaleins]

1 hour ago, Sakeopete said:

Honestly after finding dirt in the bottom of a 5 gallon water bottle I stopped trusting them with my family's health. Knowing how things work in Asia I don't trust for a minute that companies offering filtered water or those coin operates machines at condo';s actually get serviced.

 

4  years ago my neighbor showed me his atmospheric water generator  that uses humidity in the air to condense into water. Even though the water is already clean it still goes through 2 carbon filters, a mineral adding filter and RO. Both holding tanks also have UV lights. The water tastes amazing and since I make it myself I know it is clean.

 

Lucky for me he moved back to the USA and I quickly bought it from him. Best investment I ever made the machine never runs out of water for our family of 4 and unlike filter systems it doesn't matter if we have city water or not. The machine is the same size as a water cooler without the 5 gallon bottle on top.

those large water bottles, and the smaller 1 litre type - usually made of that thick opaque plastic cannot be trusted at all. They are usually just a DIY home type project, there are no checks at all on the water quality. Anyone can set up doing this business of selling water. They simply get their logo and phone number printed on the bottles (which are reusable - therefore washed out and cleaned by any means thought adequate). The seals that are fitted to the lids are bought in bulk, they are fitted using a hair drier, or hot air blower.

 

The water has no checks carried out at all, and in many cases is ordinary well water passed through a filter - and there are no specs for the filters. Buyer beware!

[rheinwiese]

 

Here ya go. 

[Jingjock]

Thats reverse osmosis, some are ok lots not, always boil your water to be safe

[connda]

Get your own reverse osmosis with UV. Or buy a Katadyn or Berkey filtration system and filter the water you buy.  Really depends on your level of paranoia.

Regarding the safety of water?  To be honest, live here long enough and your body is going to adapt to the bacteria.  That's why Westerners who are complete 'clean freak' end up getting the 'trots' when they get to a third world country while the locals are just fine.  The human body is pretty adaptable.  But I will take worm meds once a year just to be on the safe side especially considering a like salads, fresh veggies, and fresh fruit.  Immodium and charcoal are your friends until your body adapts. But keep yourself in a sterile bubble and you'll never adapt. 
Regarding chemical contamination.  Whether it's ag runoff, industrial pollution, or the utter mess that fracking makes of aquifers, it's a problem world-wide.  Concerned?  Then go for the Katadyn or Berkey filtration systems. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by connda

[theguyfromanotherforum]

39 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

Thats reverse osmosis, some are ok lots not, always boil your water to be safe

 

??

 

Boiling water does not make it safe. It just makes it safe against bacteria.

[jak2002003]

Use common sense.  If the water machine is clean, and you see lots of people using it (and as a bonus it has the timetable signature thing for cleaning filled in up to data), then its going to be safe.

 

If is run down, battered, dirty and no one using it, then it is going to be risky!!!

 

We have used them for 12 years for our drinking water... and NEVER had a problem here in Chiang Mai.

 

 

[Johnnyngai]

I have the  " InstaPure Faucet Mount Water Filter " in my kitchen. 

I didn't get any water related diarrhea yet.   

[lvr181]

23 hours ago, Roiav said:

Therefore, I do not understand the logic behind boiling the water… because it does not remove the metals anyway.

If a decent filtration system is not available then boiling the water usually kills off bacteria e.g. Giardia and the particularly hard to kill Cryptosporidium cyst. A 'decent' filtration system requires it to be serviced. I would not trust water vending machines!

 

You're correct, it does not remove the heavy metals or flouride 'additive' (in a treated water supply) and the chlorine used will dissipate or reduce considerably in the boiling process.

 

Buy your bottled water (at 7-11 and Family Marts for example) from bottlers such as Coca-Cola or the mainstream breweries who also filter their water (for brewing purposes). 

 

From www.cdc.gov some good information, a little reproduced below.

 

Microfiltration:

• A microfiltration filter has a pore size of approximately 0.1 micron (pore size ranges vary by filter from 0.05 micron to 5 micron);
• Microfiltration has a very high effectiveness in removing protozoa (for example, Cryptosporidium, Giardia);
• Microfiltration has a moderate effectiveness in removing bacteria (for example, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, E. coli);
• Microfiltration is not effective in removing viruses (for example, Enteric, Hepatitis A, Norovirus, Rotavirus);
• Microfiltration is not effective in removing chemicals.

Reverse Osmosis Systems:

• Reverse Osmosis Systems use a process that reverses the flow of water in a natural process of osmosis so that water passes from a more concentrated solution to a more dilute solution through a semi-permeable membrane. Pre- and post-filters are often incorporated along with the reverse osmosis membrane itself.
• A reverse osmosis filter has a pore size of approximately 0.0001 micron.
• Reverse Osmosis Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing protozoa (for example, Cryptosporidium, Giardia);
• Reverse Osmosis Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing bacteria (for example, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, E. coli);
• Reverse Osmosis Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing viruses (for example, Enteric, Hepatitis A, Norovirus, Rotavirus);
• Reverse Osmosis Systems will remove common chemical contaminants (metal ions, aqueous salts), including sodium, chloride, copper, chromium, and lead; may reduce arsenic, fluoride, radium, sulfate, calcium, magnesium, potassium, nitrate, and phosphorous.

Distillation Systems:

• Distillation Systems use a process of heating water to the boiling point and then collecting the water vapor as it condenses, leaving many of the contaminants behind.
• Distillation Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing protozoa (for example, Cryptosporidium, Giardia);
• Distillation Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing bacteria (for example, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, E. coli);
• Distillation Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing viruses (for example, Enteric, Hepatitis A, Norovirus, Rotavirus);
• Distillation Systems will remove common chemical contaminants, including arsenic, barium, cadmium, chromium, lead, nitrate, sodium, sulfate, and many organic chemicals.

Ultraviolet Treatment Systems (with pre-filtration)

• Ultraviolet Treatment with pre-filtration is a treatment process that uses ultraviolet light to disinfect water or reduce the amount of bacteria present.
• Ultraviolet Treatment Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing protozoa (for example, Cryptosporidium, Giardia);
• Ultraviolet Treatment Systems have a very high effectiveness in removing bacteria (for example, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, E. coli);
• Ultraviolet Treatment Systems have a high effectiveness in removing viruses (for example, Enteric, Hepatitis A, Norovirus, Rotavirus);
• Ultraviolet Treatment Systems are not effective in removing chemicals.

HTH helps in your understanding. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by lvr181
Spelling correction

[thailand49]

I've had one of these Reverse Osmosis machines for ten years the first in my neighborhood. After the warranty, it was pulling teeth to get the people out to service them so I started to study it and service it myself.  A number of years ago I saw a number of articles in the Bangkok Post, requiring owners to service them every month. I thought, as usual, they love to come up with all these rules but never anyone to enforce it! Today their are a number of machines in my neighborhood but I've never seen any of them serviced never!

When I started to service my own machines, mostly the filters I found out how expensive they can be there is no way anyone who could replace all the filters each month and still make money unless it gross 2,000 baht up a month. In the ten years I've search high and low the cheapest for a full set I've gotten is 2,000.  I've through experiments change all filters every 6 month and one every month.  Whenever service has come out due to something I can't fix, the service goes through my machine and time after time tell me my machine is old but the cleanest they have seen.  Yet many of my neighbors will walk down the Soi by past my machine since I'm a Farang or the neighbor machine is newer but as I noted never seen service.    

[thailand49]

I've had one of these Reverse Osmosis machines for ten years the first in my neighborhood. After the warranty, it was pulling teeth to get the people out to service them so I started to study it and service it myself.  A number of years ago I saw a number of articles in the Bangkok Post, requiring owners to service them every month. I thought, as usual, they love to come up with all these rules but never anyone to enforce it! Today their are a number of machines in my neighborhood but I've never seen any of them serviced never!

When I started to service my own machines, mostly the filters I found out how expensive they can be there is no way anyone who could replace all the filters each month and still make money unless it gross 2,000 baht up a month. In the ten years I've search high and low the cheapest for a full set I've gotten is 2,000.  I've through experiments change all filters every 6 month and one every month.  Whenever service has come out due to something I can't fix, the service goes through my machine and time after time tell me my machine is old but the cleanest they have seen.  Yet many of my neighbors will walk down the Soi by past my machine since I'm a Farang or the neighbor machine is newer but as I noted never seen service.    

[thailand49]

I've had one of these Reverse Osmosis machines for ten years the first in my neighborhood. After the warranty, it was pulling teeth to get the people out to service them so I started to study it and service it myself.  A number of years ago I saw a number of articles in the Bangkok Post, requiring owners to service them every month. I thought, as usual, they love to come up with all these rules but never anyone to enforce it! Today their are a number of machines in my neighborhood but I've never seen any of them serviced never!

When I started to service my own machines, mostly the filters I found out how expensive they can be there is no way anyone who could replace all the filters each month and still make money unless it gross 2,000 baht up a month. In the ten years I've search high and low the cheapest for a full set I've gotten is 2,000.  I've through experiments change all filters every 6 month and one every month.  Whenever service has come out due to something I can't fix, the service goes through my machine and time after time tell me my machine is old but the cleanest they have seen.  Yet many of my neighbors will walk down the Soi by past my machine since I'm a Farang or the neighbor machine is newer but as I noted never seen service.    

[thailand49]

I've had one of these Reverse Osmosis machines for ten years the first in my neighborhood. After the warranty, it was pulling teeth to get the people out to service them so I started to study it and service it myself.  A number of years ago I saw a number of articles in the Bangkok Post, requiring owners to service them every month. I thought, as usual, they love to come up with all these rules but never anyone to enforce it! Today their are a number of machines in my neighborhood but I've never seen any of them serviced never!

When I started to service my own machines, mostly the filters I found out how expensive they can be there is no way anyone who could replace all the filters each month and still make money unless it gross 2,000 baht up a month. In the ten years I've search high and low the cheapest for a full set I've gotten is 2,000.  I've through experiments change all filters every 6 month and one every month.  Whenever service has come out due to something I can't fix, the service goes through my machine and time after time tell me my machine is old but the cleanest they have seen.  Yet many of my neighbors will walk down the Soi by past my machine since I'm a Farang or the neighbor machine is newer but as I noted never seen service.    

[Cheops]

We have the countertop Espring filter from Amway (yeah, I know. Amway bla bla...). From what I read the filter is really good. The filter costs are about 1 baht per liter, which I think is acceptable. No issues with it for 10 years orso.

 

Any thoughts about the Amway filter? More people using these?

[goegoe]

If the refill machine is taken care by your building management, it's safe, if it is in the street, avoid it.

 

But anyway, who doesn't drink mineral bottled water is totally dumb, right ?

 

 

[scubascuba3]

I noticed if i used a big 6 litre bottle, after a few weeks/months it had some mould type substance in the middle inside. I now use 1.5 litre bottles and keep in the fridge even when empty and I've never had the same problem after many months

[goegoe]

Funny that some people can say that their water is safe because they are drinking it everyday ?

 

Do you really think that you will wake up the next day or next year with a cancer ?!

 

Of course you will never know that it's the water that killed you. Take the risk if you like.

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

??

 

Boiling water does not make it safe. It just makes it safe against bacteria.

And viruses, oocysts, chloramines and chlorine. A lot cheaper than the filter systems, ozonators and and activated carbon absorbers on display at HomePro etc.

Enlighten me - apart from the minuscule risk of heavy metal contamination - grossly exaggerated IMHO - what else makes boiled water unsafe?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

Enlighten me - apart from the minuscule risk of heavy metal contamination - grossly exaggerated IMHO - what else makes boiled water unsafe?

 

I dunno, to be honest. I mean I don't know if it's exaggerated or not, but I was told by some reliable Germans not to trust Bangkok pipes and Thai antibiotic shrimp.

 

Fortunately, I don't eat sea food, but like everyone drink water. I only buy mount fleur water as I find it tastes the best.

 

As for getting used to bugs, nope... I can't risk this anymore. Twice in the past year I got poisoning so bad that I lost counciousness. Once I was very lucky to stay alive because I collapsed when going down the stairs and cracked my head so bad that I had to have a MRI scan (I documented this here last September).

 

The country is dirty. Hygiene is bad. Boiling water doesn't cut it for me. I don't trust it.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I noticed if i used a big 6 litre bottle, after a few weeks/months it had some mould type substance in the middle inside. I now use 1.5 litre bottles and keep in the fridge even when empty and I've never had the same problem after many months

 

Bottled water - all size bottles. 

 

A few years back a professor at my uni gave out a small teams project on this subject as part of an MBA course. Specific to Thailand.

 

I forget most  of the findings except one:

 

- Over one third (over 33%) of the brand names the students documented were unregistered and therefore had no certification of any kind.

 

 

[fathersicksendmoney]

Go to home pro. Ask for the most expensive filter system pay for installation ,go to pub job done.

[Andycoops]

I use a wall mounted Convoy faucet with carbon and silicon filters for my drinking water.

Change the filters every 12 months. 

Never had an issue 

[HHTel]

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I dunno, to be honest. I mean I don't know if it's exaggerated or not, but I was told by some reliable Germans not to trust Bangkok pipes and Thai antibiotic shrimp.

 

Fortunately, I don't eat sea food, but like everyone drink water. I only buy mount fleur water as I find it tastes the best.

 

As for getting used to bugs, nope... I can't risk this anymore. Twice in the past year I got poisoning so bad that I lost counciousness. Once I was very lucky to stay alive because I collapsed when going down the stairs and cracked my head so bad that I had to have a MRI scan (I documented this here last September).

 

The country is dirty. Hygiene is bad. Boiling water doesn't cut it for me. I don't trust it.

The days of people getting sick from lead pipes belong back in the Victorian era. There are a few fringe naturopaths who will tell you the chromium and nickel in stainless steel is bad for you - that could be why hospitals and restaurants have so much of the stuff.

Boiled water is safe. I've been drinking it for 50 years, here and in Australia. I boil it in Australia because the water authorities are quite heavy-handed with chlorine. They knock off any chances of meningococcal disease, but don't have a clue how many soft-tissue cancers they are generating in the process. It disappears in the background noise of cancer statistics.

I agree hygiene is bad. I'll only eat food which is cooked in front of me, I cook it myself, or spiced to a fair-thee-well.

I would suggest your bouts of poisoning are food-related. I steer clear of processed meats and salad bars. I have restaurants in Chiang Mai on my trusted list, and a couple that will never see me again.