UK to warn public every week over 'no-deal Brexit': The Times

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Off course it’s related to Brexit. If Labour supporters have the opportunity to vote in those remain supporting M.P. Many will put their support aside. I consider Labour tactics of either sitting on the fence, or actually trying to overturn the referendum result, their most gigantic mistake in a generation. If J.C had declared his intention to support Brexit, as many beleive he actually wants, and had been able to take his party with him, then today we would be looking at a future Labour 

government. 

Why is this so hard to understand.  For the Labour Party to win a general election it would mean Tory voters switching and voting Labour.  Take Corbyn out of the equation, that is what I am saying.  With him as leader, Labour doesn't stand a chance but without him and the ridiculous Abbot they may do, especially in a coalition.  It is not a matter of Labour winning an election, it is the Conservatives losing it.  But you are still trying to make Brexit party political.  The leave voters were far more prevalent in the Labour heartland but in reality the vote was split over all colours and persuasions.  I live in Tory heartland (Raab is our local MP) and 80% of the people voted remain.

 

But let's just suppose that we did put a Brexit swing on a general election.  Let's say Britain crashes out with a no deal.  That would trigger a general election.  Do you seriously think that would result in a Tory win?  Or we go through with "Chequers" deal.  You think that the Tories would win on that ticket?  Or we scrap Brexit altogether.  Do you reckon the Tory leave voters would vote blue?

 

The Tories are in serious trouble here and people on both sides of Brexit are sick of their screwing everything up.

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

It will be interesting to read those “official” stats, and even more interesting to read who produces them.

That is why I said let's wait and see.  I am very cynical of official stats and their source.  Apparently it is coming from the government.  However it won't make any difference to the Brexiteers because they will say it is project fear as they always do.  We would only know the truth when we crashed out with no deal and then it would be too late to do anything about it.

 

There will be no satisfaction of saying I told you so because we will all be screwed together.

[tebee]

45 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

....

 

But let's just suppose that we did put a Brexit swing on a general election.  Let's say Britain crashes out with a no deal.  That would trigger a general election.  Do you seriously think that would result in a Tory win?  Or we go through with "Chequers" deal.  You think that the Tories would win on that ticket?  Or we scrap Brexit altogether.  Do you reckon the Tory leave voters would vote blue?

 

The Tories are in serious trouble here and people on both sides of Brexit are sick of their screwing everything up.

 

Yes, the one good thing I can see coming out of Brexit is there are no scenarios were the Tories emerge from  of this smelling of roses.  The chance of any achievable Brexit being a success is as near zero as makes no odds.

 

The sad thing is I don't like Labour or the Lib Dems policies -but they must be better than what we have   

[vogie]

6 hours ago, oilinki said:

It's elected quite the same way our countries elect our cabinets. We vote for the members, who then create the cabinet. This applies to Finland, UK and EU. 

Am I correct in thinking that infact your elections are direct elections whereas the EU is indirect elections.

[citybiker]

Am I correct in thinking that infact your elections are direct elections whereas the EU is indirect elections.

In other words “regional” within country of origin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

 

Yes, the one good thing I can see coming out of Brexit is there are no scenarios were the Tories emerge from  of this smelling of roses.  The chance of any achievable Brexit being a success is as near zero as makes no odds.

 

The sad thing is I don't like Labour or the Lib Dems policies -but they must be better than what we have   

I have never voted Labour in my life and have no intention of starting now.  Bring in David Miliband or someone like him though and I think they will never have such a good chance as this.

 

It is much too late for any general election to have an influence on Brexit, that ship has sailed long ago.  In about four years time I will probably be leaving the UK so for me everything has a time tag.  My concern is more for my son but hopefully he will have the qualifications to forge a career anywhere he chooses to.  

[melvinmelvin]

dont really understand what you say above re tories losing out

why should they lose out? plenty support from the electorate

 

if tories were not digestable to parliament, you have vote of non-confidence as a tool

 

UK is Tory fixated, enjoy the mess

 

 

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Am I correct in thinking that infact your elections are direct elections whereas the EU is indirect elections.

The EU is not a country whereas Finland and the UK are.

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

dont really understand what you say above re tories losing out

why should they lose out? plenty support from the electorate

 

if tories were not digestable to parliament, you have vote of non-confidence as a tool

 

UK is Tory fixated, enjoy the mess

 

 

Certainly have been since the demise of Blair, however after him that is understandable.  But with the UK is such a terrible mess that lays very definitely at the Tories door nobody can be sure which way the country will swing next.

 

As for plenty of support... Well they only have a small majority in the house thanks to the support of the DUP. And May had to buy that!

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Certainly have been since the demise of Blair, however after him that is understandable.  But with the UK is such a terrible mess that lays very definitely at the Tories door nobody can be sure which way the country will swing next.

 

As for plenty of support... Well they only have a small majority in the house thanks to the support of the DUP. And May had to buy that!

 

Yes, fair enough, you are right there, agree. DUP is the additional weight on the scale.

 

(was just letting off some -Tory steam)

 

please educate me;

does DUP have any interest in Brexit at all, that is beyond the border traffic up north?

 

 

 

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The EU is not a country whereas Finland and the UK are.

I am replying to a question where he states the EU elections and the UK/Finnish elections are the same, they are not. The UK system is more democratic than the EU.

However I never known your morale to be so low, so I won't pester you, I hope you build your spirits up soon.

 

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am replying to a question where he states the EU elections and the UK/Finnish elections are the same, they are not. The UK system is more democratic than the EU.

However I never known your morale to be so low, so I won't pester you, I hope you build your spirits up soon.

 

Don't confuse morale with anger but thanks for the thought ?

[melvinmelvin]

 

are there big differences between UK and EC

UK cabinet ministers are picked - not elected

UK PM is picked - not elected

 

compares well with the guys in Brussels

 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

That is why I said let's wait and see.  I am very cynical of official stats and their source.  Apparently it is coming from the government.  However it won't make any difference to the Brexiteers because they will say it is project fear as they always do.  We would only know the truth when we crashed out with no deal and then it would be too late to do anything about it.

 

There will be no satisfaction of saying I told you so because we will all be screwed together.

When civil servants are instructed to look at potential events, they generally side with caution, in other words they think in terms of the worst scenario. Nothing wrong with that, sort of better to be safe than sorry. This is what happened pre the E.U referendum, when Osbourne and his cronies predicted Armageddon.should the leavers win.

I’m positive there will be government departments preparing for events,should an atomic war take place etc.However truth be known, none of us know what the economic impact of Brexit will bring. And I understand that some may be afraid of the uncertainties. But it’s not just about economics. Once Brexit takes place, then we know there will be certain advantages for the U.K.

Control of our own boarders. Not being subject to the whims of Angela Merkel, in inviting one and all to our country. O.K some will say we have an extra boarder control already, being an island. Yet three years ago A.M invited many none E.U citizens to uproot home and come to the E.U. Theses same people will in two years, be eligible for a E.U. Passport, and should we remain in the E.U. they would be entitled to come to the U.K.

Create and be subject to our own laws.

I remember very well, that in the run-up to the referendum, the remainer side catagorely stated that there would be no E.U. Army. Well we now know that is completely untrue. What else do they have in store for the people of the E.U?

 

[JTXR]

On 7/21/2018 at 3:38 PM, evadgib said:

When did a state ever try leaving the union?

I want UK to get on with it.

Seriously, dude?  "When did a state ever try leaving the union?"

 

You're right.  I mean, golly, that might cause a war or something, you know?

[JTXR]

As a non-Brit, I used to have an opinion about Brexit.  Now I think it's none of my business.  Whatever the fallout, other countries will just have to deal with it.  In the meanwhile, it's sure to be an entertaining show.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Am I correct in thinking that infact your elections are direct elections whereas the EU is indirect elections.

EU parliament is elected direct.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Am I correct in thinking that infact your elections are direct elections whereas the EU is indirect elections.

No, you are not.

 

Finland and EU has direct election of their leaders. Meanwhile UK does not as you have your lords saying how you should live. 

 

Both Finland and EU power structures are more democratic than UK power is.

 

That's why I said that UK is less democratic entity than EU.

[aright]

30 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

are there big differences between UK and EC

UK cabinet ministers are picked - not elected

UK PM is picked - not elected

 

compares well with the guys in Brussels

 

 

The current UK Cabinet Ministers are all elected members of Parliament. 

The main political party and their members  have a high involvement in the choice of Leader of the Party. In the case of the Conservative party their MP's shortlist the candidates then party members elect the person of their choice. The leader of the party automatically becomes PM if they win the election but he/she  is an elected member of Parliament. She can of course be deposed by the Party or the people.

Who elects (I don't mean rubber stamps) the EU Commission. A question I have asked before...at what election did I vote for Martin Selmayr?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I am replying to a question where he states the EU elections and the UK/Finnish elections are the same, they are not. The UK system is more democratic than the EU.

Mind explaining that brainfart idea in detail?

 

New cliffhanger: Have you been lied to, because you were too ignorant to not to believe the liars and too bored to do your own research?

 

This is a page turner. 

[aright]

“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decades is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
― Mikhail Gorbachev - former President of the Soviet Union

 

 

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, aright said:

“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decades is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
― Mikhail Gorbachev - former President of the Soviet Union

 

I just learned a new word. apocryphal. Thanks!

 

 

Quote

 

a·poc·ry·phal

 

(of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true.

 

 

 

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Mikhail_Gorbachev

[aright]

Doubtful authenticity seems to be the straw you want to hang onto. The truth is authenticity doesn't invalidate the value of the statement 

Perhaps you would prefer

“The EU is the old Soviet Union dressed in Western clothes.”
― Mikhail Gorbachev

I have more!

 

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

Mind explaining that brainfart idea in detail?

New cliffhanger: Have you been lied to, because you were too ignorant to not to believe the liars and too bored to do your own research?

This is a page turner. 

Why do you feel the need to insult people because they have different ideas to yours. Is this a Finnish thing? 

You border  boring when it comes to making inane statements and asinine comments but outside your comfort zone refuse to answer questions Can I remind you

  23 hours ago, oilinki said:

In the rest of the EU, our politicians doesn't behave in that way. Yes, there are few bad apples, but in general, we have tendency to find solutions instead of trying to grab power by it's groins. 

After Brexit you'll be stuck with your silly politicians and house of lords. Meanwhile we at the EU side will continue to go forward with our democratically elected members of the EU           see post 289

18 hours ago, aright said:

What solutions have the EU found to massive unemployment in Southern member States?

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

What solutions have the EU found to illegal and opportunistic immigration?

What solutions have the EU found to a common currency which only benefits one country?

 

 At what democratically held election did I vote for Martin Selmayr?

Answers please.

 

[vogie]

55 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I just learned a new word. apocryphal. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Mikhail_Gorbachev

You may want to look up politeness and manners next.

[tomacht8]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

What solutions have the EU found to massive unemployment in Southern member States?

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

What solutions have the EU found to illegal and opportunistic immigration?

These are exactly the questions that the EU urgently needs to solve!
Too bad that the UK no longer wants to actively represent these important issues / problems in the EU parliament.

[aright]

8 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

These are exactly the questions that the EU urgently needs to solve!
Too bad that the UK no longer wants to actively represent these important issues / problems in the EU parliament.

I agree  but what the Remainers, the EU apologists, refuse to recognize is a Union that has lost it's way, is overly political, bureaucratic, with massive immigration problems. Their financial institutions are close to failure, the Euro only benefits one country, massive unemployment especially among the young  and unelected leaders not prepared to modify the project resulting in the rise of extreme political parties and countries in open revolt against Brussels.

 

 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, aright said:

I agree  but what the Remainers, the EU apologists, refuse to recognize is a Union that has lost it's way, is overly political, bureaucratic, with massive immigration problems. Their financial institutions are close to failure, the Euro only benefits one country, massive unemployment especially among the young  and unelected leaders not prepared to modify the project resulting in the rise of extreme political parties and countries in open revolt against Brussels.

 

10 hours ago, aright said:

Why do you feel the need to insult people because they have different ideas to yours. Is this a Finnish thing? 

You border  boring when it comes to making inane statements and asinine comments but outside your comfort zone refuse to answer questions Can I remind you

 

"The forest answers to you, the way you yell at the forest" - Finnish proverb

 

Now the forest is answering to you.

 

 

[whatsupdoc]

9 hours ago, aright said:

I agree  but what the Remainers, the EU apologists, refuse to recognize is a Union that has lost it's way, is overly political, bureaucratic, with massive immigration problems. Their financial institutions are close to failure, the Euro only benefits one country, massive unemployment especially among the young  and unelected leaders not prepared to modify the project resulting in the rise of extreme political parties and countries in open revolt against Brussels.

 

 

 

So what do we recognize? That the EU seems stronger and more unified (also partly thanks to Brexit). Politics and bureaucracy is unavoidable but not really worse than anywhere else. Immigration problems, true but not caused by the EU. Most financial institutions doing just fine (banks in Italy being the exception), unemployment (Southern Europe yes, Northern Europe no), unelected leaders (what are you talking about????), rise of extreme political parties (which seems a worldwide phenomenon, so not because of EU).

The biggest nonsense: the Euro only benefits one country (is it Germany or The Netherlands, or...?).

The truth is that the EU hugely benefits most of its members. The rich ones prosper and many of the poorer ones are growing rapidly (something they would not have been able to do by themselves).

 

The UK, as one of the richer countries, could have benefitted enormously of the EU as well (possibly to a similar extend as Germany) but they decide to self destruct economically (in the case of  a hard Brexit). In the EU extreme political parties hardly get the chance to do extreme things. How about the UK?

 

The UK, with its tabloid press and hopelessly divided main political parties seems a lot less stable than the average EU member.

[aright]

3 hours ago, oilinki said:

 

 

"The forest answers to you, the way you yell at the forest" - Finnish proverb

 

Now the forest is answering to you.

 

 

“Make improvements, not excuses. Seek respect, not attention.”

..................Comments in a childs school report

 

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:32 PM, aright said:

What solutions have the EU found to massive unemployment in Southern member States?

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

What solutions have the EU found to illegal and opportunistic immigration?

What solutions have the EU found to a common currency which only benefits one country?

 

 At what democratically held election did I vote for Martin Selmayr?

Just a reminder. When questions are asked it's reasonable to expect answers.

[Nigel Garvie]

This piece, whilst being entertaining, is pointing out the elephant in the room. The Bexiteers have not come up with a single workable plan for leaving the EU - on whatever terms - and saving our economy from disaster. They can only call out "Democracy, Democracy" and expect others to do their impossible task for them. The reply is "Reality Reality" the thing that the Mail, Sun, and Express (Journalism's answers to STDs) was trying to hide from them. Now it is all going seriously pear shaped, the vast economic damage of Brexit is becoming obvious to all but the most blinkered and stubborn Brexiteer. As a remainer I take no satisfaction in anticipating this grim state of affairs. This idiocy - if it goes through- will hurt everyone in the UK that I know - Leavers and Remainers alike - very worrying times indeed.

 

"So, this is how the debate reads so far. I kid you not, it’s practically verbatim:

 

Remainers (left holding the Brexit baby after the Leavers… left) “<deleted>?”

Leavers “We voted Brexit, now You Remainers need to implement it”

Remainers “But it’s not possible!”

Leavers “The People Have Spoken. Therefore it is possible. You just have to think positively.”

Remainers “And do what exactly?”

Leavers “Come up with a Plan that will leave us all better off outside the EU than in it”

Remainers “But it’s not possible!”

Leavers “Quit with the negative vibes. The People Have Spoken.”

Remainers “But even you don’t know how!”

Leavers “That’s your problem, we’ve done our bit and voted, we’re going to sit here and eat popcorn and watch as you do it.”

Remainers “Shouldn’t you do it?”

Leavers “It’s not up to us to work out the detail, it’s up to you experts.”

Remainers “I thought you’d had enough of experts”

Leavers “Remain experts.”

Remainers “There are no Leave experts”

Leavers “Then you’ll have to do it then. Oh, and by the way, no dragging your feet or complaining about it, because if you do a deal we don’t want, we’ll eat you alive.”

Remainers “But you don’t know what you want!”

Leavers “We want massive economic growth, no migration, free trade with the EU and every other country, on our terms, the revival of British industry, re-open the coal mines, tea and vicars on every village green, some bunting, and maybe restoration of the empire.”

Remainers “You’re delusional.”

Leavers “We’re a delusional majority. DEMOCRACY! So do the thing that isn’t possible, very quickly, and give all Leavers what they want, even though they don’t know what they want, and ignore the 16 million other voters who disagree. They’re tight trouser latte-sipping hipsters who whine all the time, who cares.”