Aircon....educate me please

[cheeryble]

Vitara 1999 1.6 16valve.

 

Hi

 

For some time my aircon's been dodgy.

It would either

 

1. Fan doesn't work

2. Fan works no aircon

3. Fan works with aircon.

 

(Im aware the aircon coolant fan is broken and will fix when the grille comes out for a little body repair soon, but i think that just helps the aircon a bit especially when stationary......shouldn't matter here)

 

I found a little shop with no waiting and the energetic guy also does stereos and electrical stuff so I figured he'd be smart and try him.

 

They tested the pressure and it was a low but not enough to stop the aircon.

They then took out the interior AC fan.

The armature was somewhat worn he said he could replace for 2350 but if I replaced the brushes he thought it would be fine.

So yesterday he whizzed off and got the brushes and cracked on while i went for a bike ride.

An hour and a half later he called me and said it's ready.

And the AC was working fine.

total 650 including adding AC liquid as I understood it.

Off I drove happy......and cool....as a clam.

 

In the evening I got in the car and it had AC fan but no AC.....mode 2 above.

Later the AC came on again and this morning it's on I just tested.

 

I'd like to know why just having the fan working is supposed to turn on the aircon (if it's switched on of course).

IOW why was making the fan work supposed to stop mode 2 above....fan works, no aircon.?

is there some airflow sensor or something which is a cutout??

 

And why did it revert from mode 3 to mode 2 last night for a while then switch back?

 

Thanks!

 

ps looking forward to my esteemed advisors appearing!!

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by cheeryble

[ezzra]

1999...this AC been around the block for nearly 20 years,  don't try to work out what an A? C does or doesn't, that is a mystery of the ages, go to an aircon shop and let them solve the problem fro you, sorry if i didn't say anything that you didn't know already...

[luk AJ]

If the fan doesn’t work, it seems logic the airco also doesn’t work otherwise the cooling element would freeze up.
The airco compressor is driven by a belt from the engine and the pouley from the compressor is a electro/magnetic engage/disengage system. I guess the problem is situated there.


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[Kwasaki]

18 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

is there some airflow sensor or something which is a cutout??

Could be as simple as bad connections it is old but yes as said compressor sensor, one that switches on & off to regulate the temperature is my guess too.

Take back to the A/C shop or Suzuki dealer for electronic testing the system..

[thedemon]

My money would be on the AC pressure switch, especially when the problem is intermittent like that.

[cheeryble]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

1999...this AC been around the block for nearly 20 years,  don't try to work out what an A? C does or doesn't, that is a mystery of the ages, go to an aircon shop and let them solve the problem fro you, sorry if i didn't say anything that you didn't know already...

Hmmmm I went to an aircon shop albeit a little one  which did other stuff too.

It is very much more convenient than the best aircon place I know and they crack on immediately.

So if I could get my head round the problem I'd rather return there if possible.

I'll check it out for a day or two anyway.

[cheeryble]

1 hour ago, luk AJ said:

If the fan doesn’t work, it seems logic the airco also doesn’t work otherwise the cooling element would freeze up.
The airco compressor is driven by a belt from the engine and the pouley from the compressor is a electro/magnetic engage/disengage system. I guess the problem is situated there.


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If the element can freeze up without fan it suggests a sensor to switch off something in the cooling system.

Question is does the sensor check airflow from the interior fan or just a "live" signal to that fan assuming it is then running properly. 

Important: The electromagnetic AC clutch was changed just a couple of years ago.

Edited August 1, 2018 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

My money would be on the AC pressure switch, especially when the problem is intermittent like that.

Would that be a coolant fluid pressure switch or an airflow-from-interior-fan pressure switch?

If I knew what and where I could maybe short it when AC not working and see if AC cuts in.

 

[HAKAPALITA]

Well its a lovely Suzuki, let them do it.!. Anyone can guess.


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[fredob43]

It couldn't be something simple like the temp gauge turned up to high could it??? that would make it turn on and off.

[cheeryble]

1 hour ago, fredob43 said:

It couldn't be something simple like the temp gauge turned up to high could it??? that would make it turn on and off.

Hmmm it;s set the cold end.

But you raise a point.

I figured the temp gauge was a mechanical thing.....feels like it's just adjusting the mixture from a cold AC duct and perhaps and ambient air duct.

I don't think there is but if there was an electrical temperature sensor sure that could be dodgy.

Edited August 1, 2018 by cheeryble

[fredob43]

2 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Hmmm it;s set the cold end.

But you raise a point.

I figured the temp gauge was a mechanical thing.....feels like it's just adjusting the mixture from a cold AC duct and perhaps and ambient air duct.

I don't think there is but if there was an electrical temperature sensor sure that could be dodgy.

For the 3rd time of trying to reply. As usual Thaivisa is not responding yet again TV site is at best Crap. Sorry rant over.

 

I used to get a problem with my old Vigo if it was set to low it would freeze and stop working. Only cure was to set it on outside and it would clear itself. Did puff out lots of cold steam whilst doing so. Your lump isn't new so you might have to play about with it. If it sill messes about suggest you don't go to your dealer as they might say you need a new set up. That happened to a friend with his Honda they wanted thousands he got it fixed for a few hundred bt at a local place. Go back to where you got it done and tell them it still not working properly and let them have a go. It could be something simple. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by fredob43

[HAKAPALITA]

Not everyones skint At least the dealer is admittedly more than a good aircon place , and sometimes for little reason, they do give you 12 months G tee , even BMW, but their noses bleed same as Honda Toyo.


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[fredob43]

5 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Not everyones skint At least the dealer is admittedly more than a good aircon place , and sometimes for little reason, they do give you 12 months G tee , even BMW, but their noses bleed same as Honda Toyo.


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Nothing to do with being skint. I just don't like being overcharge for the same thing. Honda wanted many thousands of BT for a new set up that didn't require fitting he got it done as said for only a few hundred BT. It also had a guarantee. If your stupid enough to pay over the top up to you. 

[KittenKong]

My car's air-con became erratic at one point, and sometimes only blew hot air or wouldn't blow at all. At other times it was fine. So it seemed to me to be a loose connection. The dealer just removed the filter and the fan and put them back in and that solved it. No charge.

 

Also the filter gets caked up with thick black god-knows-what and if it isnt cleaned every few months (and replaced completely every couple of years) then the air-con efficiency drops right down, just as it does with a home air-con. Have you checked your filter?

[thedemon]

11 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Would that be a coolant fluid pressure switch or an airflow-from-interior-fan pressure switch?

If I knew what and where I could maybe short it when AC not working and see if AC cuts in.

 

There are pressure switches on both the high pressure and low pressure lines. I haven't done this stuff for quite a few years but from memory it is switch on the low pressure line that will cause that kind of intermittent fault whereas the high pressure switch will usually trip under load or high temperature.

 

No idea where they would be located on a Suzuki but if you follow the lines from the compressor they should be obvious enough.

 

I've never heard of a pressure switch on the interior fan. 

[HAKAPALITA]

I use the dealer for one reason.Im all over Thailand, could have work done very well by small dealers , dont kid yerself you save much because go nowhere man says you save a packet..if mine goes wrong i aint popin down south 16 hrs to find old Ice Man If yer stay local theres no risk Except a 12 month Gtee may be worth considering.


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[Lancashirelad]

Agree with thedemon and others to check pressure switches. Also, any relays that may be sticking. Perhaps a job for an auto electrician initially rather than an AC specialist.

[cheeryble]

On August 1, 2018 at 10:14 PM, KittenKong said:

My car's air-con became erratic at one point, and sometimes only blew hot air or wouldn't blow at all. At other times it was fine. So it seemed to me to be a loose connection. The dealer just removed the filter and the fan and put them back in and that solved it. No charge.

 

Also the filter gets caked up with thick black god-knows-what and if it isnt cleaned every few months (and replaced completely every couple of years) then the air-con efficiency drops right down, just as it does with a home air-con. Have you checked your filter?

Haven't checked the filter......wouldn't know where it is ? but I dare say the air guy might have had a peep if he can get at it quickly as he only took an hour and a half or so including a trip to CM of at least 45 min or an hour. And of course he took the fan out to replace the brushes.

I will ask him, but prefer to go back there forearmed with a bit of knowledge from this forum and in fact though AC is not owkring all the time the fan is and the AC seems to be working a lot more or most of the time. Maybe there''s a clue there.

 

Aren't you guys lucky I bring good mysteries to the forum?

 

I never forget back in the UK decades ago I was at Wandsworth tip/recycling centre and saw a wet and dry vac there. I said the the gf I bet all it needs is a pair of brushes for pennies.I took it home plugged it in it roared into life. I used that thing near daily for not years but into the decades went through a motor etc etc and it's still in my friend's garage there I think. 

[cheeryble]

17 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

Agree with thedemon and others to check pressure switches. Also, any relays that may be sticking. Perhaps a job for an auto electrician initially rather than an AC specialist.

May be a valid point though my only memory of an auto electrician here ........big shop too......I could see he wasn't thinking right and had to take over from him. Would like to have a good one in the rolodex........my reversing lights don't work too.

[moontang]

The golden rule of auto-ac is that the ECM has the final authority on whether or not the ac can function,,,that is why many replace parts and add refrigerant, only to find it still not working.  Sensors are very problematic as well as the fan relays.  If fan number two isnt working right, you will very likely have problems.  1999 Suzuki?  wouldn't give you a manual typewriter for it....

[HAKAPALITA]

We had a Vitar as a go for at my Transport Company.Took all the abuse the drivers dished out for 4 years, replaced by a Ford Sierra type pick up, they nackered in 12months..I like em Anyway.?[emoji481]


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[cheeryble]

  1999 Suzuki?  wouldn't give you a manual typewriter for it....

 

Pistols at dawn.

What similar vehicle has the old reliable sliding shaft 4wd like a Land Rover a ton of headroom and legroom for a 192cm driver, big enough for comfort but same footprint as a medium car for parking, and a high seat for easy entry with a spare wheel which will hold a bike rack perfectly? 16 valve, Nippy as u need.

Seriously, I’d be interested

 

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[Lancashirelad]

Reversing lights should be easy to fix. Check 1. bulbs. 2. fuse. 3. gearbox switch ...... quite possible that they have forgotten to reconnect the plug to this after the box has been out.

[Jerry Cornelius]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, Lancashirelad said:

Agree with thedemon and others to check pressure switches. Also, any relays that may be sticking. Perhaps a job for an auto electrician initially rather than an AC specialist.

Only a useful choice if you/they have the specifications and pressure test systems to diagnose the fault.

 

Some third party companies will have those, but finding one may be difficult. However, they're in your AC specialist category.

 

I refer all my rides to the dealer. Even if I can fix it myself.

 

After all, they 'designed' it. If only by searching a catalogue and even then, they have access to support for their purchase.

 

Jerry

[transam]

11 hours ago, Jerry Cornelius said:

Only a useful choice if you/they have the specifications and pressure test systems to diagnose the fault.

 

Some third party companies will have those, but finding one may be difficult. However, they're in your AC specialist category.

 

I refer all my rides to the dealer. Even if I can fix it myself.

 

After all, they 'designed' it. If only by searching a catalogue and even then, they have access to support for their purchase.

 

Jerry

I have known of main agents farming it out....

 

Would think every town will have an A/C specialist or two cos every ride has A/C.

 

 

[cheeryble]

Thanx for comments all of which are sensible.
(Indeed I know main dealers sometimes farm out body work)

The good news is the AC seems to have been working all the time the last couple of days, so I’m very glad I didn’t run back to the shop or anywhere else just yet......in fact the last couple of cool days I’ve found myself getting chilly after exercise and turning it off, and it already performed its most useful function of demisting the windows after a cold rain burst in CM yesterday.
So for now I shall observe.


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[XBroker]

Car will be 20 years old next year. Be glad it gets you from point a to b.  Sort of related-The fan/ blower, if it is set on too high, can actually slow down cooling in an ac system.

[cheeryble]

Car will be 20 years old next year. Be glad it gets you from point a to b.  Sort of related-The fan/ blower, if it is set on too high, can actually slow down cooling in an ac system.

I’m very glad, also that I’m living in a country where labour costs are so low one can keep a car running indefinitely.
If I spent over a million on a new Vitara it's be two inches longer and have no four wheel drive.


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[stud858]

Possible two different faults.  Fixing the interior fan fixed one.  intermittent problems are common with expansion valves. And that's one other thing to consider. AC shop will give you the chances valve is causing a problem but it's not certain to know without replacing it in some cases.