Does Logic as we know it exist in Thailand

[marko kok prong]

Well does it? I will give examples,building my house,they installed thin wall pipes from the pump to the pool,they knew these were no good so they had to dig them up and replace them with thick wall pipes when i pointed this out to the builder. My wife and her daughter fell off the motorsai last week,here daughter sustained a cut over her top lip,when i examined her helmet[open face with visor] i noted that the bottom of the visor curved inward,which caused the cut,i purchased them full face helmets and gloves,as they both had gravel rashes on their hands,yesterday my wife come's back to the house[she at present lives at her mothers as we are building a house,i live in a smaller house opposite the one being built],in an open face helmet and no gloves. so i ask were is the full face helmet and gloves  "my Mum put away,as is new" ???.

  i told her the idea is safety not to look at a brand new helmet sitting in a cupboard or where ever.

  Yesterday we had a backhoe in to dig a trench to put the water pipes in,now it is as plane as day that a trench has been dug alongside the concrete road,so the guy comes in a truck to deliver sand,cement for the wall,he knows as he delivered yesterday before the trench was dug,so one would think 'a trench has been dug it's soft ground,avoid it,what does he do straight into it cracking the pipe in the process,so back comes the backhoe/front end loader pushes him out,then the pipe has to be dug up and fixed.

 Now my wife want's ten trucks of ground for the back garden,i tried to explain they are wider trucks and it may well happen again,"2 day the ground dry is okay" i tried to tell her it will takes months for that ground to settle,and it's the middle of the wet season, "concrete" she announced,"what" i replied 'even if we concrete it there is no firm base underneath it will crack, and we will be back to square one, "Not in Thailand",at which point i gave up and went to talk to the cat.

[sirmud63]

i think you just answered your own question . 

[Kadilo]

Good luck with the house build. Sounds like it’s gonna be a long process.


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[cornishcarlos]

What did the cat advise ?? 

[marko kok prong]

2 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

What did the cat advise ?? 

Don't talk to the wife,jeez carlos i might be getting into a advice triangle here.

[cornishcarlos]

Just now, marko kok prong said:

Don't talk to the wife,jeez carlos i might be getting into a advice triangle here.

 

That's what happens when pussy calls the shots !!!

[marko kok prong]

9 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Good luck with the house build. Sounds like it’s gonna be a long process.


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It has,and has nearly sent me insane,still nearly over .

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

It has,and has nearly sent me insane,still nearly over .

It's never over.

 

We've been in nearly 6 years. I'm still fixing things and re-doing stuff that was "nearly right", at least it keeps me off the streets.

[pgrahmm]

You're dealing with their ignorance...

 

 

But......

 

Their logic is flawless.....

 

You're building them a McMansion.......

[richard_smith237]

Whenever these threads crop up its more often than not people questioning the logic / intelligence / intentions of those of a significantly poorer socio-economic-educational background.

 

Mix with those of a similar 'level' (for want of a better description) and the differences greatly diminish. The same 'non-cultural' differences exist in other areas too, what we are observing in Thailand is the vast gulf in education between 'us and them' when dealing with those who of a less educated backgrounds. 

 

In short its about with whom we are dealing and mixing.

 

Thus, in direct answer to the Ops opening question: Yes, logic does exist as we know it in Thailand, it's as common as anywhere else, what differs is the level of education and the exposure many Westerners have to Thai's of varying levels of education, which, if posts on ThaiVisa is a good example, primarily seems  to be exposure to those of a poorer or underprivileged socio-economic-educational background.

 

Speak with or have dealings with those who missed out on a decent education in our home countries and many of the same logic flaws exist, in Thailand, they are simply highlighted.

[cornishcarlos]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Whenever these threads crop up its more often than not people questioning the logic / intelligence / intentions of those of a significantly poorer socio-economic-educational background.

 

Mix with those of a similar 'level' (for want of a better description) and the differences greatly diminish. The same 'non-cultural' differences exist in other areas too, what we are observing in Thailand is the vast gulf in education between 'us and them' when dealing with those who of a less educated backgrounds. 

 

In short its about with whom we are dealing and mixing.

 

Thus, in direct answer to the Ops opening question: Yes, logic does exist as we know it in Thailand, it's as common as anywhere else, what differs is the level of education and the exposure many Westerners have to Thai's of varying levels of education, which, if posts on ThaiVisa is a good example, primarily seems  to be exposure to those of a poorer or underprivileged socio-economic-educational background.

 

Speak with or have dealings with those who missed out on a decent education in our home countries and many of the same logic flaws exist, in Thailand, they are simply highlighted.

 

Very well explained and I agree 100% with your observations.

Unfortunately for people having building works done or other jobs of a manual type, this tends to expose them to the above mentioned demographic.

Patience is the key to sanity in Thailand...

[Crossy]

37 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

Don't talk to the wife,jeez carlos i might be getting into a advice triangle here.

More likely a vicious circle.

 

 

[pgrahmm]

4 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Very well explained and I agree 100% with your observations.

Unfortunately for people having building works done or other jobs of a manual type, this tends to expose them to the above mentioned demographic.

Patience is the key to sanity in Thailand...

And a sense of humor......

Which the Thai's will happily share with you if approached. correctly.......

[HAKAPALITA]

Don't talk to the wife,jeez carlos i might be getting into a advice triangle here.

You get more sense from the Cat than the Wifes Brother. ?[emoji481]


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[transam]

OP, your woes sound quite (LOS) normal to me.....?

[Gecko123]

45 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Whenever these threads crop up its more often than not people questioning the logic / intelligence / intentions of those of a significantly poorer socio-economic-educational background.

 

Mix with those of a similar 'level' (for want of a better description) and the differences greatly diminish. The same 'non-cultural' differences exist in other areas too, what we are observing in Thailand is the vast gulf in education between 'us and them' when dealing with those who of a less educated backgrounds. 

 

In short its about with whom we are dealing and mixing.

 

Thus, in direct answer to the Ops opening question: Yes, logic does exist as we know it in Thailand, it's as common as anywhere else, what differs is the level of education and the exposure many Westerners have to Thai's of varying levels of education, which, if posts on ThaiVisa is a good example, primarily seems  to be exposure to those of a poorer or underprivileged socio-economic-educational background.

 

Speak with or have dealings with those who missed out on a decent education in our home countries and many of the same logic flaws exist, in Thailand, they are simply highlighted.

Good grief! What a snobby elitist post. Common sense logic isn't particularly dependent on educational levels; it's just that poverty accustoms people to cutting corners and taking short cuts which they otherwise probably wouldn't do if they had the money.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Gecko123

[HAKAPALITA]

Why is ita snoby Post.I can sit in the Hilton Soi 6 and see within a class structure. No more so than here , lazy free loadin teacher types to dedicated genuine ones. Bums who live in Pats on 300 pm , some bright but generally thick nutters unwanted in thir own Nation. His post only annoyed the weak.[emoji481][emoji86]


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[transam]

5 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Why is ita snoby Post.I can sit in the Hilton Soi 6 and see within a class structure. No more so than here , lazy free loadin teacher types to dedicated genuine ones. Bums who live in Pats on 300 pm , some bright but generally thick nutters unwanted in thir own Nation. His post only annoyed the weak.


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Do you sit in a hi-so chair with your nose in the froth watching folk go bye thinking you are better than them...?

[Naam]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

It's never over.

 

We've been in nearly 6 years. I'm still fixing things and re-doing stuff that was "nearly right", at least it keeps me off the streets.

beat you (by day after tomorrow) with exactly 12 years fixing, re-doing and improving.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Why is ita snoby Post.I can sit in the Hilton Soi 6 and see within a class structure. No more so than here , lazy free loadin teacher types to dedicated genuine ones. Bums who live in Pats on 300 pm , some bright but generally thick nutters unwanted in thir own Nation. His post only annoyed the weak.


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isn't this forum "English only; foreign languages not allowed?"

[OneMoreFarang]

Look at all those modern condominiums, hotels, shopping malls, etc. Many of them are well designed and well build.

I guess if you let professionals do the work then you can expect professional results.

I find it always amusing when some people complain when the hired help for minimum wage is not qualified...

 

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Good grief! What a snobby elitist post. Common sense logic isn't particularly dependent on educational levels; it's just that poverty accustoms people to cutting corners and taking short cuts which they otherwise probably wouldn't do if they had the money.

 

Unfortunately whenever entering debate on such subjects the outstanding issues which are ultimately driven by socio-economic-educational factors and lack of social mobility any attempt to discuss such points always face the accusation of being 'snobby' or 'elitist'... but never 'realist'... 

 

I do agree that 'common sense logic' isn't particularly dependent on educational levels, many would argue the existence of many highly educated, wealthy people from highly socially respected backgrounds with no logic or common sense and draw the conclusion that 'education and common sense' are not related, generalizations are always flawed. However, when discussing this point in aggregate it is a fair assumption that a lack of education leads to a lack of the development of logic skills and often an absence of common sense, as would not having to use your logic skill set to critically evaluate your surroundings lead to a deterioration in your natural logic abilities and common sense.

After all, your brain behaves as a muscle - you can develop it or lose it and logic is primarily 'brain power'. Unfortunately, and I suspect this is where your liberalism becomes somewhat offended, Gecko123, when generalizing, there are certain demographics within society who simply 'think less'... 'use it or lose it'... 

 

 

 

 

[HAKAPALITA]

Most certainly.?


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[roo860]

Well does it? I will give examples,building my house,they installed thin wall pipes from the pump to the pool,they knew these were no good so they had to dig them up and replace them with thick wall pipes when i pointed this out to the builder. My wife and her daughter fell off the motorsai last week,here daughter sustained a cut over her top lip,when i examined her helmet[open face with visor] i noted that the bottom of the visor curved inward,which caused the cut,i purchased them full face helmets and gloves,as they both had gravel rashes on their hands,yesterday my wife come's back to the house[she at present lives at her mothers as we are building a house,i live in a smaller house opposite the one being built],in an open face helmet and no gloves. so i ask were is the full face helmet and gloves  "my Mum put away,as is new" ???.

  i told her the idea is safety not to look at a brand new helmet sitting in a cupboard or where ever.

  Yesterday we had a backhoe in to dig a trench to put the water pipes in,now it is as plane as day that a trench has been dug alongside the concrete road,so the guy comes in a truck to deliver sand,cement for the wall,he knows as he delivered yesterday before the trench was dug,so one would think 'a trench has been dug it's soft ground,avoid it,what does he do straight into it cracking the pipe in the process,so back comes the backhoe/front end loader pushes him out,then the pipe has to be dug up and fixed.

 Now my wife want's ten trucks of ground for the back garden,i tried to explain they are wider trucks and it may well happen again,"2 day the ground dry is okay" i tried to tell her it will takes months for that ground to settle,and it's the middle of the wet season, "concrete" she announced,"what" i replied 'even if we concrete it there is no firm base underneath it will crack, and we will be back to square one, "Not in Thailand",at which point i gave up and went to talk to the cat.

 

Did you check the original helmets for causing potential injuries. I would've.

 

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[Gecko123]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Unfortunately whenever entering debate on such subjects the outstanding issues which are ultimately driven by socio-economic-educational factors and lack of social mobility any attempt to discuss such points always face the accusation of being 'snobby' or 'elitist'... but never 'realist'... 

 

I do agree that 'common sense logic' isn't particularly dependent on educational levels, many would argue the existence of many highly educated, wealthy people from highly socially respected backgrounds with no logic or common sense and draw the conclusion that 'education and common sense' are not related, generalizations are always flawed. However, when discussing this point in aggregate it is a fair assumption that a lack of education leads to a lack of the development of logic skills and often an absence of common sense, as would not having to use your logic skill set to critically evaluate your surroundings lead to a deterioration in your natural logic abilities and common sense.

After all, your brain behaves as a muscle - you can develop it or lose it and logic is primarily 'brain power'. Unfortunately, and I suspect this is where your liberalism becomes somewhat offended, Gecko123, when generalizing, there are certain demographics within society who simply 'think less'... 'use it or lose it'...

 

 

There's more than bleeding-heart liberalism behind my objection to your post. The premise of your post was that if you only avoid the lower socio-economic classes and mix with better educated and affluent classes of Thai society, you can avoid most of the problems reported by the OP. Presumably, the people who liked your post either see themselves as superior to the "average" Thai, or, by inference, would like others to believe that they too mix with a higher class of Thais and are thus in a position to agree with you. So the first thing I found offensive is the self-congratulatory tone of your post: naah-naah-na-naah-na, I don't have problems like yours because I hang with a better class of Thai people. Very pretentious, in my opinion. If you get a chance, please share with us how you screen the electricians, plumbers, and refrigerator repair men you hire so as to avoid the problems the rest of the riff-raff so often encounter.

 

But there's more. Aren't there plenty of people from lower socio-economic disadvantaged classes in your home country? Would you dare say to their faces that they are best to be avoided? So there's a cultural and possibly racial, component - not just a pure educational level or socio-economic argument - you are making, which is offensive as well. And aren't many of these same people from your home country's lower socio-economic classes right here in Thailand? Are they to be avoided along with Thais from lower socio-economic backgrounds?  I live in rural Thailand, and, yes, the educational level of many people is not that high. But I also have contact with plenty of Thai people who have graduated from college, are successful business owners and work in professional occupations, and I surely have not observed that there is some magical socio-economic divide where cultural and communication problems suddenly disappear.

 

Take another look at the examples the OP cited. Are they really examples of poor reasoning skills or can they be chalked up to poor communication and cultural differences? Thais are too stupid to know that newly poored concrete needs to set? Give me a break. Who hasn't seen concrete being allowed to fully dry before being walked or driven on? Is the girlfriend's lame response "This is Thailand" due to her lack of logic or because she can't give a more coherent explanation because of a language barrier?

 

Daughter not wearing a motorcycle helmet because she calculates the risk is minimal? "It's new" sounds more like lame adolescent deflection to me than impaired IQ. Not very smart, but certainly not limited to just poor people. Does the OP wear his helmet every single time he hops on his bike? Do you? Have heard plenty of forum members proudly proclaim they often don't. Are they best to be avoided as well? Wrong sized pipes installed? Who's fault was that? Were specs spelled out? Properly communicated and supervised by the OP?

 

My point is that people can pat themselves on the back all day long about how their thinking skills are superior to the "natives", but the truth is that most of these problems can easily be managed with good communication (read: language skills), and developing a measure of awareness about cultural differences. Projecting an attitude of superior intellectual capacity and pointing fingers that every problem is "their" fault might play well here with similarly frustrated forum members who fancy themselves as superior to the brown skinned natives, but it's counterproductive in the real world, and most of the time the root of the problem is poor communication skills and lack of understanding about cultural differences (on your part), not poor thinking skills (on their part).

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Gecko123

[marko kok prong]

I am beginning to think i should not have posted this,as i have now discovered no water is getting from the tank via the pump to the house,possibly a broken pipe under the slab? I should have just kept this between me and the cat.

[cornishcarlos]

26 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

I am beginning to think i should not have posted this,as i have now discovered no water is getting from the tank via the pump to the house,possibly a broken pipe under the slab? I should have just kept this between me and the cat.

 

That will be the brown skinned natives fault...

 

5 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

similarly frustrated forum members who fancy themselves as superior to the brown skinned natives

 

Not sure but a lot seem to be turning whiter with the help of chemical substances !!! Maybe logic will prevail.... 

Edited August 3, 2018 by cornishcarlos

[starky]

On 8/2/2018 at 1:02 PM, HAKAPALITA said:

You get more sense from the Cat than the Wifes Brother. ?


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What if the wife's brother is a cat?